What is depth?

[bfgm]

Two main factors would add plenty of depth sorely needed in elite dangerous:


1.) End-Game content - A reason to grind up all the credits needed to afford those big costly ships. At the moment there's little use for a Corvette/Cutter/Anaconda except for trading. We need exciting content that drives us to grind up these ships and to get them A-rated. If there's no incentive then whats the use? For me it would be some epic space battle with the opportunity of some great reward.

2.) Something to do besides grind - We need something to break up the insanity that is "The Grind", and not just 1 thing. We need multiple things to sidetrack us and keep us satisfyingly occupied. CQC is a perfect step in the right direction, however at the moment it is so flawed that it's borderline broken/not working. When all we have to do is grind it leads to being burned out quickly.

**There are many other smaller factors needed as well, but I will refrain from going into detail for the time.**

 

[sbdags]

Two main factors would add plenty of depth sorely needed in elite dangerous:


1.) End-Game content - A reason to grind up all the credits needed to afford those big costly ships. At the moment there's little use for a Corvette/Cutter/Anaconda except for trading. We need exciting content that drives us to grind up these ships and to get them A-rated. If there's no incentive then whats the use? For me it would be some epic space battle with the opportunity of some great reward.

2.) Something to do besides grind - We need something to break up the insanity that is "The Grind", and not just 1 thing. We need multiple things to sidetrack us and keep us satisfyingly occupied. CQC is a perfect step in the right direction, however at the moment it is so flawed that it's borderline broken/not working. When all we have to do is grind it leads to being burned out quickly.

**There are many other smaller factors needed as well, but I will refrain from going into detail for the time.**

The 'grind' is only what you make it. I have been playing since Beta Summer 2014 - and don't find any grind in my gameplay. Mind you I only have a Python as my top ship so far.

Also there is no end game. Elite has never had an end game - that's the point. The sooner people realise this the better.

 

[bfgm]

The 'grind' is only what you make it. I have been playing since Beta Summer 2014 - and don't find any grind in my gameplay. Mind you I only have a Python as my top ship so far.

Also there is no end game. Elite has never had an end game - that's the point. The sooner people realise this the better.

That's all good and fine for awhile, but the game wont last without it.

After you have all the best ships and a bajillian credits...what's next? Use those ships to make even more credits? lol

 

[sbdags]

That's all good and fine for awhile, but the game wont last without it.

Yes it will, it'll be fine. It's been doing ok for the last 30 years.

 

[bfgm]

Yes it will, it'll be fine. It's been doing ok for the last 30 years.

So it's been in the top 100 games played for the past 30 years?

And besides that point.. Today's average gamer is much more demanding than that of yesteryear.

 

[sbdags]

So it's been in the top 100 games played for the past 30 years?

Are you really asking that question? I don't see it dying any time soon so why are you trying to convince me other wise. It's got a healthy player base and community backing it right now and with more to come the future looks great indeed.

Try looking on the bright side for a change.

 

[Pendra]

The 'grind' is only what you make it. I have been playing since Beta Summer 2014 - and don't find any grind in my gameplay. Mind you I only have a Python as my top ship so far.

Also there is no end game. Elite has never had an end game - that's the point. The sooner people realise this the better.

Some people can't feel grind. I would personally hang myself if I had to work next to an assembly line and drive in 4 screws per item for 8 hours a day, 6 days a week. Yet some people are absolutely happy to do it and don't feel that as a terrible grind.

 

[milligna]

It's so weird how some folks are so certain of it failing, despite having zero experience in the business or in game design. Against all available proof... dismissing a lively community, good sales, and Frontier successfully transitioning into self-publishing. Then they completely miss the whole point of the game...

I mean:

"If there's no incentive then whats the use?"

It's a complete, fundamental misunderstanding of the Elite franchise. The incentives are up to you. You do what you want, when you want. You set your own goals. There are no stupid cutscenes and the only "epic space battles" are the ones you instigate, they aren't handed on a platter in increments. It doesn't mean you're a lesser person for not getting the point, it just MIGHT mean you're better off playing something else that caters to your needs.

If you try to say that, no matter how politely... the response is inevitably: "Get with the times, granddad! It isn't 1984 any more! Gaming has moved on and something something Skyrim something something something! The game will die if it doesn't modernize!"

Well, they did the kickstarter to gauge the waters and see if there was interest. There was. They released a product, and there was even more interest. It's expanding and chugging along nicely, following the beat of it's own drummer and doing decently. Braben put his company on the line for this project and... it worked. It's scratching an itch a lot of us had and setting a new benchmark in the genre. There's no need to be offensive OR defensive about it. It is what it is. A modern Elite. Yay! Might as well hit the Wasteland 2 and Shadowrun forums and demand it be made more like Fallout 4, yeesh.

 

[sbdags]

Some people can't feel grind. I would personally hang myself if I had to work next to an assembly line and drive in 4 screws per item for 8 hours a day, 6 days a week. Yet some people are absolutely happy to do it and don't feel that as a terrible grind.

Agreed - it would be difficult for most people to put up with that but some people do although I bet they would say it is a grind if asked.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

It's so weird how some folks are so certain of it failing, despite having zero experience in the business or in game design. Against all available proof... dismissing a lively community, good sales, and Frontier successfully transitioning into self-publishing. Then they completely miss the whole point of the game...

I mean:

"If there's no incentive then whats the use?"

It's a complete, fundamental misunderstanding of the Elite franchise. The incentives are up to you. You do what you want, when you want. You set your own goals. There are no stupid cutscenes and the only "epic space battles" are the ones you instigate, they aren't handed on a platter in increments. It doesn't mean you're a lesser person for not getting the point, it just MIGHT mean you're better off playing something else that caters to your needs.

Cha-ching! Another Elite player who gets Elite. Well done have some Rep! +1

 

[Pendra]

Agreed - it would be difficult for most people to put up with that but some people do although I bet they would say it is a grind if asked.

Not really, usually, when I tell them that there is more to life than 4 screws/item, a lunch break, one or two dumb soap operas, they stare like they don't understand what I'm talking about,

 

[sbdags]

Not really, usually, when I tell them that there is more to life than 4 screws/item, a lunch break, one or two dumb soap operas, they stare like they don't understand what I'm talking about,

Those are a special kind of people

 

[bfgm]

Are you really asking that question? I don't see it dying any time soon so why are you trying to convince me other wise. It's got a healthy player base and community backing it right now and with more to come the future looks great indeed.

Try looking on the bright side for a change.

I'm a realist. I'm not trying to "convince" anyone of anything only supplying my information based on factual experiences as an average gamer. Game's without end-game content just don't last. A quick google / steam search can provide you with a top ten list for the last decade proving my point/'s.

When a person *wants* to believe something, they lose all rationality of whats true and false.

 

[sbdags]

I'm a realist. I'm not trying to "convince" anyone of anything only supplying my information based on factual experiences as an average gamer. Game's without end-game content just don't last. A quick google / steam search can provide you with a top ten list for the last decade proving my point/'s.

When a person *wants* to believe something, they lose all rationality of whats true and false.

You should apply that to yourself then

You are forgetting one thing - this is Elite, with 30+ years legacy behind it. That puts it in a different kind of category that you aren't considering.

 

[bfgm]

You should apply that to yourself then

You are forgetting one thing - this is Elite, with 30+ years legacy behind it. That puts it in a different kind of category that you aren't considering.

I have no interest in elite dangerous failing. Why would this apply to me?

Just because a game has existed for 30+ years doesn't mean it's been successful for 30+ years. If this was the case then Horizons would have been released with all the content. Instead they sold a skeleton of an expansion for $60 with the promise of more content to come. This is because they lacked the funds needed to already have the content developed. The 30+ years must not have been so lucrative.

 

[dynamicbob]

to much development focus on technology and trying to do everything and not enough on content. this appears to be starting to change, if the DDA background sim could be refined, it could be used as a content selling point, dynamic events and player influence galaxy more than now. And it could be used as a massive RETENTION tool to keep players playing

 

[Kristov]

So it's been in the top 100 games played for the past 30 years?

And besides that point.. Today's average gamer is much more demanding than that of yesteryear.

Oh, man, thank you for that laugh! The average gamer today is much more demanding...that's SO FUNNY! And it's totally true, but just not at all in the way you meant it, which makes it even funnier!

The average gamer today wants to be led around by the nose and have their hand held from start to finish of the game, which shouldn't take more than 8 to 10 hours of time total mind you, anything over that is just stupid! Games should be hard, but by hard they mean you should be able to kill a hundred enemies at once without being in danger, that is what hard means, it doesn't mean the PLAYER should actually be skilled in any fashion or have mastered how to use the various weapons and tools in the game, which would require hours of playing, there's not enough time for that silly crap. And the game should be immersive and give real reasons behind doing everything, which means give the player massive rewards and titles and achievements for completing such complicated tasks as turning the game on.

Go find the original Battlefield 1942 for PC, load it up, see how long it takes you to figure out how to do well in it, offline campaign mode only, not the online multiplayer. Now, go grab the newest Battlefield title for PC, load it up, see how long it takes you to figure out how to do well. Please notice the HOURS of time required for that original BF game compared to the few minutes the newest title requires to be able to do well at the game. Now go find the original Call of Duty game for PC and the newest CoD: BO III and do the same. The average gamer today IS indeed more demanding, they want easy to play games that make them feel like they are special badasses who mastered something really complicated and difficult. Nevermind that the gameplay has been dumbed down so much that the average 'good' player in BO III couldn't get past the starting scene in the original CoD, same with BF. Or if you prefer, we'll go with WoW, what it played like 12 years ago vs what it plays like today. TOTALLY different experiences, the gameplay today is so simple and easy that it makes the original gameplay, which was simple and easy by design, seem complicated and hard, as Blizzard has spent the last decade making WoW so easy to play that a blind, deaf and fingerless monkey can master it. But you do get a lot more rewards than you did 12 years ago, because today's average gaming is SO demanding of those rewards for doing nothing.

Seriously, thanks for the laugh...end game..yeah, no, not an Elite thing, and before you tell us once again how it's required, please go look up Star Citizen, Evochron Legecy and Infinity Battlescapes and tell us again how an end game is a must have for a game to have a chance....

 

[CMDR Byr Goefin]

I have no interest in elite dangerous failing. Why would this apply to me?

Just because a game has existed for 30+ years doesn't mean it's been successful for 30+ years. If this was the case then Horizons would have been released with all the content. Instead they sold a skeleton of an expansion for $60 with the promise of more content to come. This is because they lacked the funds needed to already have the content developed. The 30+ years must not have been so lucrative.

Got news for you, DevOps is the way of the future, Waterfall development is dead, unless you work for the government.

 

[Rad Bard]

Oh, man, thank you for that laugh! The average gamer today is much more demanding...that's SO FUNNY! And it's totally true, but just not at all in the way you meant it, which makes it even funnier!

The average gamer today wants to be led around by the nose and have their hand held from start to finish of the game, which shouldn't take more than 8 to 10 hours of time total mind you, anything over that is just stupid! Games should be hard, but by hard they mean you should be able to kill a hundred enemies at once without being in danger, that is what hard means, it doesn't mean the PLAYER should actually be skilled in any fashion or have mastered how to use the various weapons and tools in the game, which would require hours of playing, there's not enough time for that silly crap. And the game should be immersive and give real reasons behind doing everything, which means give the player massive rewards and titles and achievements for completing such complicated tasks as turning the game on.

Go find the original Battlefield 1942 for PC, load it up, see how long it takes you to figure out how to do well in it, offline campaign mode only, not the online multiplayer. Now, go grab the newest Battlefield title for PC, load it up, see how long it takes you to figure out how to do well. Please notice the HOURS of time required for that original BF game compared to the few minutes the newest title requires to be able to do well at the game. Now go find the original Call of Duty game for PC and the newest CoD: BO III and do the same. The average gamer today IS indeed more demanding, they want easy to play games that make them feel like they are special badasses who mastered something really complicated and difficult. Nevermind that the gameplay has been dumbed down so much that the average 'good' player in BO III couldn't get past the starting scene in the original CoD, same with BF. Or if you prefer, we'll go with WoW, what it played like 12 years ago vs what it plays like today. TOTALLY different experiences, the gameplay today is so simple and easy that it makes the original gameplay, which was simple and easy by design, seem complicated and hard, as Blizzard has spent the last decade making WoW so easy to play that a blind, deaf and fingerless monkey can master it. But you do get a lot more rewards than you did 12 years ago, because today's average gaming is SO demanding of those rewards for doing nothing.

Seriously, thanks for the laugh...end game..yeah, no, not an Elite thing, and before you tell us once again how it's required, please go look up Star Citizen, Evochron Legecy and Infinity Battlescapes and tell us again how an end game is a must have for a game to have a chance....

All I can say is....
+1 rep

 

[bfgm]

Oh, man, thank you for that laugh! The average gamer today is much more demanding...that's SO FUNNY! And it's totally true, but just not at all in the way you meant it, which makes it even funnier!

The average gamer today wants to be led around by the nose and have their hand held from start to finish of the game, which shouldn't take more than 8 to 10 hours of time total mind you, anything over that is just stupid! Games should be hard, but by hard they mean you should be able to kill a hundred enemies at once without being in danger, that is what hard means, it doesn't mean the PLAYER should actually be skilled in any fashion or have mastered how to use the various weapons and tools in the game, which would require hours of playing, there's not enough time for that silly crap. And the game should be immersive and give real reasons behind doing everything, which means give the player massive rewards and titles and achievements for completing such complicated tasks as turning the game on.

Go find the original Battlefield 1942 for PC, load it up, see how long it takes you to figure out how to do well in it, offline campaign mode only, not the online multiplayer. Now, go grab the newest Battlefield title for PC, load it up, see how long it takes you to figure out how to do well. Please notice the HOURS of time required for that original BF game compared to the few minutes the newest title requires to be able to do well at the game. Now go find the original Call of Duty game for PC and the newest CoD: BO III and do the same. The average gamer today IS indeed more demanding, they want easy to play games that make them feel like they are special badasses who mastered something really complicated and difficult. Nevermind that the gameplay has been dumbed down so much that the average 'good' player in BO III couldn't get past the starting scene in the original CoD, same with BF. Or if you prefer, we'll go with WoW, what it played like 12 years ago vs what it plays like today. TOTALLY different experiences, the gameplay today is so simple and easy that it makes the original gameplay, which was simple and easy by design, seem complicated and hard, as Blizzard has spent the last decade making WoW so easy to play that a blind, deaf and fingerless monkey can master it. But you do get a lot more rewards than you did 12 years ago, because today's average gaming is SO demanding of those rewards for doing nothing.

Seriously, thanks for the laugh...end game..yeah, no, not an Elite thing, and before you tell us once again how it's required, please go look up Star Citizen, Evochron Legecy and Infinity Battlescapes and tell us again how an end game is a must have for a game to have a chance....

Why did you type that giant wall of text about something completely off topic as wanting a difficult game? Nobody mentioned that...

Star Citizen - Not released, lots of mixed opinions online.

Evochron - Never heard of it. Never seen it in a top ten list either.

Infinity Battlescapes - Same as Evochron.

 

[Kenaz]

So I hear a lot of noise about people saying that ED is shallow and that other games have more depth?

Can someone please explain, what is depth?
What is this mystery element that ED needs?

For a frame of reference, this is how I judge a game-

Can I enjoy playing the game? Yes/No.

For ED I answer "Yes".

Or, to put it another way, can I simulate flying a space ship around, shoot stuff, trade, and fly off to explore? Yes.

So, what is missing. What do the devs need to add to fill in the missing depth that people are looking for?

Please provide depth in your answers..

Depth is the infinite rabbit hole you plunged the forum into by asking this meta question.