nope, sorry. I can be intellectually honest with you and myself and say that this game is a grind fest generated by RNG and nothing else in it's currenct state.
Wrong. I don't know how long you've been playing, but I've logged way too many hours since the opening day over a year ago. I have never felt "grind" at all. Therefore it is impossible that the game being a "grind" is a statement of fact. It is a statement of your
opinion. I respect your opinion. I respect it as much as everyone else's and a lot less than mine.
By your lights if I said the game has depth and isn't a "grind" you'd think I'm just as wrong as I think you are. That means that "grind" is probably a vague concept and we can't speak objectively about it until we come up with a workable definition of "grind" - Personally I don't even use that term to describe games (another argument that the adjective "grind" is not an objectively recognizable attribute of games.
For immersion to occur the effects need to be persistent and make sense as well as the causes. None ( I REPEAT ) NONE of that is present in ED. It is actually mostly completely random in every possible way.
You keep stating your opinions as if they are facts. "For immersion to occur the effects need to be persistent"? Not to me. So maybe that's your opinion. You're welcome to it. You and the other 1.2million people who bought Elite are welcome to your opinions. But please stop waving your opinions at me and trying to assert them as facts.
Last night I took an assassination mission. I killed my target. On the way back I get contacted via chat 18x or so times by the same NPC asking me to drop out as they have vital info for me. I eventually give up and drop down to pick the info and blow them up as they are breaking my immersion being there every time I jump to a system. They tell me that I should pay them 15k or so for killing their ally as he was really important on their op (ok not so bad) I decide to kill him as we are in lawless system, so I blow him up. I jump to new system and who isn't there. The same freaking NPC asking me the same freaking thing. Instead of maybe an wing of NPC wanting to punish me for the murders I've just committed. Nope the RNG gives me the same NPC with the same Name over and over. I've killed them 6x times now and they are still flying in every star system. This is immersion breaking and shows how shallow the interaction with their PVE is. The PVE has no real mechanics excluding the 5 main tasks which are all done in pretty much the same way with no real consequences.
I understand that that bothers you. It hasn't bothered me. That shows it doesn't bother everyone. Which shows it is not an absolute fact that it's immersion breaking.
Looky here: earlier I said I would like to have tier 2 NPCs and I've indicated that I think there's plenty of work to be done on the game. I've said elsewhere and here that I think that the game needs work. I just try to be careful to delineate my opinions from facts. It's a fact that there are fewer than 5 skins for anacondas, it's my opinion that that number is too low. See how reality works?
You are not possessed of some special knowledge that makes you the arbiter of what makes a game good, though. I also think the game could use work - but that's because I think
all games could use work. That's why you probably won't see me going around telling people my opinions and parading my opinions as if they were facts.
That is why it lacks Depth by any reasonable definition. If you want to I could elaborate some more for you
.
Rhetorical trick, "reasonable" is another example of well-poisoning. By implying that your definition, which you have not presented, is 'reasonable' you're hoping to put your thumb on the scales and predispose people to accept that your opinion (which you masquerade as a 'definition') is more correct than someone else's. Nice try.
EDIT: PS your last point is simply trying to make the silly statement about your truth and my truth and they both have equal value.
Not at all. You're not talking about "truths" (truths being facts) you're just stating opinions. Facts do have equal value because they're the same for everyone. Opinions don't have equal value because I value mine more than yours and you value yours more than mine.
That is a lot of PC bull****
Now, by labelling someone else's position as "politically correct" you're trying to demonize it, which is a form of strawman argument. But it's horribly incorrect in this situation because there
is no politically correct ideology. Or we wouldn't be having this discussion. So either I'm going to have to assume you don't know what "political correctness" is, or you're deliberately mis-using the term because you think that calling me names is going to somehow make people dismiss me because your (incorrect) opinion is that I'm "politically correct?"
In point of fact I have been arguing from a position of social relativism - that facts and opinions are separate and people's opinions are equally irrelevant to eachother. If there is an
opposite to "political correctness" (which is mostly collective authoritarianism) that's what I'm arguing. It makes me think you probably have no idea what "politically correct" means and are just throwing that out there like they do on FOX news, as a sort of curse-word.
and simply an attempt to outsmart somebody.
I'm arguing in good faith. I'm not trying to outsmart you. Really. I don't gank noobs either.
However there is a well establish factual truth to an opinion if backed by facts such as my statements
I agree there are facts in your statements. There is a game. It's called Elite. There are missions. There are NPCs. Sometimes they appear to have an almost CMDR-like ability to respawn. Etc. Those facts do not automatically lead me to your conclusion that the game lacks depth or that there is "immersion breaking" They are simply facts and you're waving them around then duct-taping your opinion on and calling your work done.
Instead you should try to convince me why your opinions are correct and how deep the game, but instead you use non factual feelings ....
Why? I'm not concerned with convincing you anything about my opinions. Just because I'm pointing out that you appear to be wrong, doesn't mean I'm concerned with advancing any particular viewpoint. I've done that elsewhere. This particular exchange is not about me trying to convince you I'm right, it's about me showing you that you're engaging in sloppy thinking.
Subjectively watching paint dry can be entertaining to somebody, but that doesn't make it a deep experience for majority
That's the "appeal to mythical majority" rhetorical tactic. The idea being that the person using it seems to somehow know what the majority likes or doesn't like. Unfortunately, it contradicts the rest of your argument: because
if you're suddenly concerned with the opinion of the majority, I guess you're agreeing that this is a matter of opinion. That's what I've been trying to tell you.
The "majority" actually play Candy Crush. But that's another story. If you want to get into the demographics of preferences in the gaming population, you'll have to find a way of carefully constructing a narrow definition that allows you to claim you're right. Ultimately, that narrow definition will consist of: you and people who agree with you.
Let's cut to the chase: you think you're right. That's your opinion.
Note I don't use the term "
just your opinion" or "
only your opinion" - those are dismissive. Your opinion is as valuable as mine. It's when you mistake it for fact that I need to correct you.
By FD I was led to believe that the game was something or is becoming something it isn't. It doesn't feel as a multiplayer sandboxed experience. Instead it feels like a brain numming RNG themepark fest with current Powerplay and legal system...
That's your opinion.
