The Star Citizen Thread v 4

[MaxLexandre]

Well I went back and had a quick look.

"To be fair, adding solid VR to an engine is also way harder than people expect it to be..."


That was the only one I could find.

There's one about the specific news about VR, should be around still.

Remember, SC engine already has VR, CIG is not in need of doing one implementation from scratch. Specially after CE did big VR improvements recently that CIG already stated will push those improvements into SC's.

 

[ianw]

Barfageddon?

Careful - you'll give the community team an idea for a new "comedy" series.

Reverse the Lunch! This week we have some absolute classics for you including the fabled not seen very often - five fingered spread! Keep those entries coming in for MVP (most valuable puke) of the week!

 

[bitstorm]

Basically yup. To make it a non puking VR experience is going to be an absolute whole heap of work. Real work. Not ship sales or coffee machines.

I actually think this is a good example illustrating the notion that not all bugs are the same.

With VR they did not integrate early, as a result CIG implemented a whole bunch of stuff that does not co-operate well with VR.

Now they want to implement VR what happens?

This is similar to a bug deep down in the underlying framework.

To implement VR they will have to go back and rethink, redo or just dump whole bits of the game that rely on faulty assumptions.

If VR had been integrated earlier SC would not be the same as it is now.

This is why it is somewhat worrying that many bugs in the deeper SC systems still seem to exist, so much has already been built on top of that. This means that for any "deep" bug to be fixed there is a much higher likelihood that fixing the bug in question will require significantly more work due to to all the dependencies sitting on top of it which may or may not be affected.

 

[swfanatic717]

Overgeneralized? Me?
I did not say in any moment that all bugs are equal to each other. Quoting you again, Please don't overgeneralize and misrepresent other people's words in future, it's an Alpha, there are bugs and what I'm not gonna do is to attack a game using other Alphas of other different games.
I'm not a fanatic, I'm not gonna hate or defend this game to death. And what I'm not gonna do is criticize a bug in an alpha of a game in development, not for appearing there.
I can criticize many things of this game, not that bugs appear in the alpha stage, I can say what I want if they don't fix them but saying that this game is the worst or that the money is not being used because of bugs...

I think bitstorm already established that the bugs not only occur in the hangar, but the PU as well, with some instances observed as recently as 2 weeks ago. This basically invalidated your response that the continued existence of said bugs was acceptable as they only existed in the hangar. Ignoring his points doesn't make the problem go away, it's just more misrepresentation on your part.

 

[MaxLexandre]

Only that they don't... Only that they don't....

Whatever. Who plays the game knows those specific issues are hangar-specific, not game-wide problems.

 

[Asp Explorer]

Who plays the game knows those specific issues are hangar-specific, not game-wide problems.

I'm launching it now and will see what I can find.

 

[MaxLexandre]

I'm launching it now and will see what I can find.

Good, let's launch it together and try to find this supposedly" deep bug" on SC's gameplay mechanic, on the actual Universe Alpha.

 

[bitstorm]

Overgeneralized? Me?
Bugs in the Hangar used to attack PU development... but I was overgeneralizing...

xD OK

I did not say in any moment that all bugs are equal to each other. Quoting you again, Please don't overgeneralize and misrepresent other people's words in future, it's an Alpha, there are bugs and what I'm not gonna do is to attack a game using other Alphas of other different games.
I'm not a fanatic, I'm not gonna hate or defend this game to death. And what I'm not gonna do is criticize a bug in an alpha of a game in development, not for appearing there.
I can criticize many things of this game, not that bugs appear in the alpha stage, I can say what I want if they don't fix them but saying that this game is the worst or that the money is not being used because of bugs...

But there's a whole bunch of similar bugs in PU.

Max posted that video.

Then I replied :

"When I see stuff like this, the naive non-game developer in me wonders how the chuff this sort of bug is still the norm so far into the project."

The defense was it only appears in the hangar and does not appear in the main PU.

But the reality is there are many similar bugs in the PU and this was said, hence the back and forth.

I'm not seeing this as an "attack on the PU" it's pointing out that saying the specific issue is only in the hangar doesn't help the perception that much because clearly similar issues are in the PU.

 

[Asp Explorer]

Good, let's launch it together and try to find this supposedly" deep bug" on SC's gameplay mechanic, on the actual Universe Alpha.

Well I'm in the thingie wotsit - the first one you enter the code for, and I'm standing on a bench being completely unimpressed.

 

[MaxLexandre]

Well I'm in the thingie wotsit - the first one you enter the code for, and I'm standing on a bench being completely unimpressed.

Derek Smart crashed my game, i'm entering back.

 

[bitstorm]

Only that they don't... Only that they don't....

Whatever. Who plays the game knows those specific issues are hangar-specific, not game-wide problems.

On the free weekend I lost every ship by suddenly flying out of it like the ship forgot I was in it.

I do have a video, but this video is where I got into another ship and again suddenly flew out.

 

[Asp Explorer]

Rubberbanding, horrible animation cutoffs, no shadows, frozen players, mesh intersection, bland texturing, completely generic models, and I think Unreal wants it's foliage back from 1998.

I really want to like Star Citizen - I've put a not inconsiderable amount of cash toward it - but in all honesty - given everything I've seen so far, it's just meh.

 

[MaxLexandre]

@Asp if you look at everything you dislike and find negative, it's the opposite of wanting to like it. What is the Alpha part of it, is what we have to deal with, things that ain't final. Update by Update, it will have to get there.
Also who needs foliage when you have PG Birds and Drinks? oh lel

~~

I'm testing that claim right now, on the Hangar, i can try to run into the ship in several ways and the physics can derp, moving the ship, acting like there's no mass to it, as already shown on the thread.

On the PU, no matter what i do, i can't get the ship on the pad, to be affected and bug it's physics on the pad. That is the collision bug that happens on the hangar we were talking about. That also causes the ship on the hangar to move, or even clip. This issue, frequent on the Hangars, is not game-wide, i even put the ship upside down and EVA'd out of it, the physics on the Universe keep behaving as intended, and the ship fells upside down, even after, i still can't derp it's physics like on the Hangar, because the ship has a mass.

Otherwise this issue would have been reported on the Issue Council as well, yet it's on the Hangar Category.

 

[Marc Alexander]

I'd be intrigued to know how much you Citizens are in for. I'd make a poll but, y'know..

Don't be shy, please share...

 

[MaxLexandre]

45$? A "whale that needs to defend its investment" he said. > . >

Actually 55$, Europeans pay more because we're rich.

 

[Asp Explorer]

I'd be intrigued to know how much you Citizens are in for. I'd make a poll but, y'know..

Don't be shy, please share...

$200 or so for me. It's less than a good night out

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@Asp if you look at everything you dislike and find negative, it's the opposite of wanting to like it. What is the Alpha part of it, is what we have to deal with, things that ain't final. Update by Update, it will have to get there.
Also who needs foliage when you have PG Birds and Drinks? oh lel

But that is the sad thing Max - they had distinctive models with a unique universe "look". They got ditched in favour of "generic spaceman". They had a far more fluid animation system - that apparently got ditched because of "player feedback". They had better textures but they got lost because of "performance issues and LORE".

So much for BDSSE. So much for fidelity.

Mind you - Elite has done similar things. The Sidewinder cockpit back in Alpha was probably 2 or 3 times as detailed as it is now, and as for asteroids and ring systems, there is no comparison.

 

[Voivod]

What is the Alpha part of it, is what we have to deal with, things that ain't final.

Even when the game is released there will still be some excuse that will be preached by the believers for every single shortcoming of the game.

Update by Update, it will have to get there.

Because there's no chance in hell Star Citizen isn't delivering every single thing it's promised at 112% fidelity straight into our brains.
Right?
There can be no other outcome.
Right?

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I'd be intrigued to know how much you Citizens are in for. I'd make a poll but, y'know..

Don't be shy, please share...

I don't remember exactly.. I think 50 something euros? or 40 something. Around there.

 

[MaxLexandre]

Because there's no chance in hell Star Citizen isn't delivering every single thing it's promised at 112% fidelity straight into our brains.
Right?
There can be no other outcome.
Right?

As i said, we have to look at the facts, and in here, history as well, on the aspect that is, things improve over time, the first release is always messy, so it was with AC, and the monthly updates on the 2.X are a really good bet to keep not only showing but delivering the progress that resulted on a lot of backlash for the lack of delivery last year.

So yeah, things will not be delivered, until they aren't, or they say something on it, not during development judging the current alpha as something that won't improve and is somehow final.
For me, they only need to deliver most of what they promised and SC is to be still one amazing game, on other words, none delivers 100% of what they promise, at least i haven't played one game that had.

$200 or so for me. It's less than a good night out

But that is the sad thing Max - they had distinctive models with a unique universe "look". They got ditched in favour of "generic spaceman". They had a far more fluid animation system - that apparently got ditched because of "player feedback". They had better textures but they got lost because of "performance issues and LORE".

So much for BDSSE. So much for fidelity.

See? That's why you don't get the +Plus Foliage, you need at least $500 for get the +Plus Foliage, that comes with grains of sand, AND rendered Ants!

But the character customization, outfits and that stuff, is not yet integrated. Before they were using the cryengine defaults, and they made their own, it feels they want to rely more on physics, mostly because EVA and FPS, than the animation based ones we had before, and still parts of it are.

I like the new animations for example, the new EVA is also good, relies on physics, so it seems they need to get that part right. I remember the old model, but it always felt limited to me, at least for what they promised they would do with it.

 

[Voivod]

As i said, we have to look at the facts, and in here, history as well, on the aspect that is, things improve over time, the first release is always messy, so it was with AC, and the monthly updates on the 2.X are a really good bet to keep not only showing but delivering the progress that resulted on a lot of backlash for the lack of delivery last year.

Things improve over time in every game in development... (Unless you're Star Marine.. then you don't)... in the case of Star Citizen this is taking a lot of time thanks to bad management and drink-mixer priorities.

 

[Rolan]

I think bitstorm already established that the bugs not only occur in the hangar, but the PU as well, with some instances observed as recently as 2 weeks ago. This basically invalidated your response that the continued existence of said bugs was acceptable as they only existed in the hangar. Ignoring his points doesn't make the problem go away, it's just more misrepresentation on your part.

Where?
For now I only saw one example and it was a segment of a video from june 2015. If there is another example(of that bug of the Hangar happening) please show me and I would say that they should fix it with a high priority, I was talking about that specific bug, not every other bug appearing (and now is when they should appear) in the PU.

I'd be intrigued to know how much you Citizens are in for. I'd make a poll but, y'know..

Don't be shy, please share...

Just checked, 37$ so more or less 35€ I think.

But there's a whole bunch of similar bugs in PU.

Max posted that video.

Then I replied :

"When I see stuff like this, the naive non-game developer in me wonders how the chuff this sort of bug is still the norm so far into the project."

The defense was it only appears in the hangar and does not appear in the main PU.

But the reality is there are many similar bugs in the PU and this was said, hence the back and forth.

I'm not seeing this as an "attack on the PU" it's pointing out that saying the specific issue is only in the hangar doesn't help the perception that much because clearly similar issues are in the PU.

I answer you to that in here:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=203785&page=251&p=3564436&viewfull=1#post3564436

I was talking about that specific bug

We can talk about every other bug in the PU and the final answer is going to be always "it's game development, bugs appear". They should be fixed? Of course. Should CIG be more advance in the development of the game? Of course, I agree, but I don't see the point on saying that the alpha stage of a "big" game is buggy and repeting the same in a infinite loop every 5 pages of this thread.