Yes PVP is unfair.

[NeilF]

What I'm hearing is ," I can't survive against numbers". No, no you cannot.

The universal answer is that      happens. You band together, hire help, take the long way or alternatively, get unlucky and blown up. Without the freedoms to do those things there is no answer and no question. It's as simple as that.

All this to bend over backwards because the game can't be bothered itself?

We have groups of individuals murdering/destroying for nothing more than the lolz... and consider what the ED Universe does about this? Are they shunned from stations? Are security forces more common around where they are, indeed even possibly jumping into their instance with a quicker and quicker response rate? Are they heavily financially penalised? The answer to all of these is of course a no... So are we surprised this behaviour continues...?

The game's vapour thin mechanics give individuals who are keen on PvP almost no avenue to undertake it. No areas or no mission mechanics specifically to pit CMDR against CMDR.

So until the murder/destruction of a Pilots Federation member is treated as a serious crime, and until the game actually offers area(s) or, better still, missions to pit CMDR against CMDR, we'll continue on with CMDRs simpy getting so frustrated they'll just jump on any CMDR they can...

 

[Robert Maynard]

We have groups of individuals murdering/destroying for nothing more than the lolz... and consider what the ED Universe does about this? Are they shunned from stations? Are security forces more common around where they are, indeed even possibly jumping into their instance with a quicker and quicker response rate? Are they heavily financially penalised? The answer to all of these is of course a no... So are we surprised this behaviour continues...?

The game's vapour thing mechanics give individuals who are keen on PvP almost no avenue to undertake it. No areas or no mission mechanics specifically to pit CMDR against CMDR.

So until the murder/destruction of a Pilots Federation member is treated as a serious crime, and until the game actually offers area(s) or, better still, missions to pit CMDR against CMDR, we'll continue on with CMDRs simpy getting so frustrated they'll just jump on any CMDR they can...

Presumably the proposal for "missions to pit CMDR against CMDR" would be for CMDRs who have both opted to participate in such missions? If not then it's no different (to the target) to being destroyed for the lulz (as they have not opted in to that mission type).

 

[EddyRockSteady]

What I'm hearing is ," I can't survive against numbers". No, no you cannot.

The universal answer is that      happens. You band together, hire help, take the long way or alternatively, get unlucky and blown up. Without the freedoms to do those things there is no answer and no question. It's as simple as that.

Not always that easy thanx to the instancing mechanic where you have about as much chance of finding a stinking pile of wooden rocking horse poop than you have at attempting to get your friends in the same instance as you when the real horse poop hits the fan.

 

[NeilF]

Presumably the proposal for "missions to pit CMDR against CMDR" would be for CMDRs who have both opted to participate in such missions? If not then it's no different (to the target) to being destroyed for the lulz (as they have not opted in to that mission type).

If you've selected a mission to protect/attack a convoy or platform, in OPEN, then would you be surprised to find CMDRs opposing you?

If you've selected a mission in OPEN to enforce a station blockade (a nice new mechanic of some sort), would you be surprised to find CMDRs in trading ships trying to run it, or CMDRs in fighting ships trying to break it?

If you've selected a mission in OPEN to use stealth mechanics (remember the game was suppose to have those once) - and let's add CQCs line of sight scanner mechanics please! - to go and scan a number of secret bases in an asteroid field, would you be surprised if you find CMDRs opposing you? ie: Try to discover and destroy you?

And if you go to one of a couple of dedicated combat arenas in the game in OPEN (offering different settings), run by TV companies to broadcast combat (who will cover a lot of your rebuy cost), would you be surprised to find other CMDRs in there?


All of these will offer legal mechanics to destroy other Pilots Federation members... Doing it out side of these sort of mechanics should mean harsh HARSH penalties such that it's basically not worth it!

 

[Muetdhiver]

Having dedicated PvP missions / scenarios in the line of what NeilF proposes would be bloody brilliant.

One team escorting an NPC convoy while the other needs to pirate the cargo ? This stuff would make 90-95% of PvP hungry players so happy.
Then put harsh penalties for the other type of PvP in areas that are not anarchy (the 5% "PvPers" that give PvPers a bad name), and we'd have a much better game.

 

[NeilF]

Having dedicated PvP missions / scenarios in the line of what NeilF proposes would be bloody brilliant.

One team escorting an NPC convoy while the other needs to pirate the cargo ? This stuff would make 90-95% of PvP hungry players so happy.
Then put harsh penalties for the other type of PvP in areas that are not anarchy (the 5% "PvPers" that give PvPers a bad name), and we'd have a much better game.

...and then if Piracy was tightened up so it was about obtaining cargo by threat/force, and the destruction of a Pilots Federation member was still harshly punished, that would only help too! I'd suggest piracy should involve a reputation (rank) so as you progress you get access to hidden platforma/bases (eg: in asteroids) where their black markets are better paying...

I'd also suggest the game even dishes outperiodic assassination missions (in OPEN) to pirates of a hgih enough reputation to kill a Pilots Federation members in certain systems, with the mission giver organising that the murder will not be registered as a crime. In this fashion the game can even organise/control a certain amount of murder/distruption in appropriate areas, under appropriate conditions. And this could even be ramped up - eg: A community goal where pirates can be given complete amnesty for murder in a system for killing Pilots Federation members, and bounty hunters given rewards for killing Pilots Federation pirates etc etc...

So ultimately PvP is promote and controlled by the game, instead of being left to its own devices!

 

[Robert Maynard]

If you've selected a mission to protect/attack a convoy or platform, in OPEN, then would you be surprised to find CMDRs opposing you?

If you've selected a mission in OPEN to enforce a station blockade (a nice new mechanic of some sort), would you be surprised to find CMDRs in trading ships trying to run it, or CMDRs in fighting ships trying to break it?

If you've selected a mission in OPEN to use stealth mechanics (remember the game was suppose to have those once) - and let's add CQCs line of sight scanner mechanics please! - to go and scan a number of secret bases in an asteroid field, would you be surprised if you find CMDRs opposing you? ie: Try to discover and destroy you?

And if you go to one of a couple of dedicated combat arenas in the game in OPEN (offering different settings), run by TV companies to broadcast combat (who will cover a lot of your rebuy cost), would you be surprised to find other CMDRs in there?


All of these will offer legal mechanics to destroy other Pilots Federation members... Doing it out side of these sort of mechanics should mean harsh HARSH penalties such that it's basically not worth it!

Just because a player is playing in Open does not mean that they are seeking PvP.

Presumably all of these mission types would be available in all modes and not restricted to Open?

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Happy 100 pages thread!

 

[NeilF]

Just because a player is playing in Open does not mean that they are seeking PvP.

Fair enough... If you want to undertake the proposed (combat related) missions and do not want to fight other CMDRs, do it in SOLO/GROUP, or worse case, add a flag in the game to disable such behaviour (I do not want PvP missions etc).

Then in all such cases, you'll only find NPC opposition via such missions/mechanics...


Can you imagine blockade style mechanics at a station though, with a CG for a week trying to enforce, run and break it? In OPEN, for the PvP orientated individuals, it could prove interesting Now ramp this up to be a valid state/outcome in Powerplay, where a station can come under blockade mechanics under extreme conditions. Personally I'd love to turn up to a station to find it under blockade (for a week or so)... Do I simply turn and leave? Or try and make them the most of the situation and try and get commodities to the station at no doubt a higher sell price? Or do I try and enforce or break the blockade as part of the associated parties/forces?

 

[Robert Maynard]

Too soon! It's only Page #30 for me....

 

[Robert Maynard]

Fair enough... If you want to undertake the proposed (combat related) missions and do not want to fight other CMDRs, do it in SOLO/GROUP, or worse case, add a flag in the game to disable such behaviour (I do not want PvP missions etc).

Then in all such cases, you'll only find NPC opposition via such missions/mechanics...

The implementation of a PvP Mission Flag is what I was getting at in post #1490. Players should reasonably be told whether the targets of a mission are players (indeed, adding players as specific mission targets would be a bit of a departure in and of itself).

 

[NeilF]

The implementation of a PvP Mission Flag is what I was getting at in post #1490. Players should reasonably be told whether the targets of a mission are players (indeed, adding players as specific mission targets would be a bit of a departure in and of itself).

Yep... If missions/tasks/community goals make it clear in themselves (for OPEN), or an option in the game (for OPEN), state ultimately if you want to participate in PvP, groovey! Otherwise as much as possible it remains PvE...

But that said there has to be some degree of PvP in some situations. eg: My proposed station blockade mechanics. If you turn up to a station that has dropped into a blockade due to say a Powerplay mechanic, if you decide to run that blockade (in OPEN), then you need to be fully prepared surely for CMDRs to attack you? Else why are you in OPEN?

If you go to the same location in SOLO or GROUP, then NPCs would be there going about their roles (enforcing/running/breaking) the blockade...


But then we get into the whole, why would anyone trade (run a blockade) in OPEN, when SOLO/GROUP would be far easier? We then get into added rewards/bonuses for OPEN mode surely

But ultimately there should be a bunch of missions/mechanics to allow players to willingly take part in PvP, with the game organising/promoting them... And then harshly punishing mindless Pilots Federation destruction!


The worrying this is, as lovely as all these suggestions sound about deeper and more involved missions/mechanics, pitting (willing) CMDRs against each other, I just don't see them happening. I just get the feeling FD will continue on with their far easier to develop "go and pretend the gameplay mechanics exists," rather than the game exactly creating, promote and organising it...

The day I see the game allow myself and a Wing to go and take on a mission, knowing full well, an opposing set of CMDRs may well be fighting against us, all organised and promoted by the game, I'll be very relieved! Now given that... What would I prefer to see first? The more involved missions/mechanics being proposed here, or the ability to create a 5% hit bonus pink laser? Personally I'd prefer to see the former... FD seem to prefer the latter... And that's probably the sort of reason why I'm just not playing now...

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

So until the murder/destruction of a Pilots Federation member is treated as a serious crime, and until the game actually offers area(s) or, better still, missions to pit CMDR against CMDR, we'll continue on with CMDRs simpy getting so frustrated they'll just jump on any CMDR they can...

i agree with most of what you say, except this. i do not think Frontiers failure to implement decent content for combat motivated PvP is an excuse for what some are doing.
If i get fustrated in a game i do not make it my mission to ruin the game for as many as i can and imo your post is kind of letting those off the hook who do.

imo it isnt CMDR fustration causing it, it is a lack of empathy for other people in the game.

 

[NeilF]

i agree with most of what you say, except this. i do not think Frontiers failure to implement decent content for combat motivated PvP is an excuse for what some are doing.
If i get fustrated in a game i do not make it my mission to ruin the game for as many as i can and imo your post is kind of letting those off the hook who do.

imo it isnt CMDR fustration causing it, it is a lack of empathy for other people in the game.

I think there will always be those individuals who see it as "just a game" and have little/no issue in causing distress and aggravation to others for no reason than their own kicks...

While agree this is a lack of empathy for other people in the game, I think if the game diswaded their antics with harsh penalties while also opening up lots of more interesting/accessible PvP mechanics (combat) it would only improve the game all round IMHO!

On a side note, I remember quite a few months ago spending quite literally a couple of hours trying to find another CMDR for some PvP, ultimately failing... Obviously going to Powerplay Conflict Zones (surely a prime example of where there should be PvP promote combat) is a complete waste of time since the novelty wore out after a week or two! Now if there were a couple of dedicated zones for PvP? Or the game actually used its mission system to pit willing CMDRs against each other?

 

[Pluvialis]

And what is the structure of the universe?

A society. An Empire. A Federation. An Alliance. Countless independent states. None of which could survive without laws, regulations, social mores and conventions govering the behaviours of people within their borders.

If that social structure is built into the lore then the in-game legal mechanisms have to reflect it. If the game is a law-of-the-jungle free-for-all then the nations, the factions and the storyline Frontier are trying to build through PowerPlay all become pointless.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Or the game actually used its mission system to pit willing CMDRs against each other?

it would have to be done carefully but this could work.... but only if the mission BB was expanded greatly (because when there are only a handful of missions on offer at any 1 time (I do not exploit the game by lame modeswitching ) i would hate to get even fewer missions due to PvP ones.

however I suppose if there was a mission branch which warned by taking it you would be opening your self up to agro from the pilots federation, and then the counter mission would spring up in BBs in the near vicinity that CMDR X Y Z must be stopped before getting to station Y, that could work. the mission would have to auto fail on mode switching or quitting to desktop however due to exploiting.

that way all parties would be signed up to it.

that being said, i do see a certian slippery slope concern here that that would be the wedge in the door to other open only content... and it would be vital not to reward more than other missions.

 

[NeilF]

it would have to be done carefully but this could work.... but only if the mission BB was expanded greatly (because when there are only a handful of missions on offer at any 1 time (I do not exploit the game by lame modeswitching ) i would hate to get even fewer missions due to PvP ones.

however I suppose if there was a mission branch which warned by taking it you would be opening your self up to agro from the pilots federation, and then the counter mission would spring up in BBs in the near vicinity that CMDR X Y Z must be stopped before getting to station Y, that could work. the mission would have to auto fail on mode switching or quitting to desktop however due to exploiting.

that way all parties would be signed up to it.

that being said, i do see a certian slippery slope concern here that that would be the wedge in the door to other open only content... and it would be vital not to reward more than other missions.

PvP isn't about CR reward really is it

When Powerplay started and for 1-2 weeks PvP was possible in the new Conflict Zones, I was happy basically almost running at a loss, for the fun I had...

 

[Toxic_Waster]

A society. An Empire. A Federation. An Alliance. Countless independent states. None of which could survive without laws, regulations, social mores and conventions govering the behaviours of people within their borders.

If that social structure is built into the lore then the in-game legal mechanisms have to reflect it. If the game is a law-of-the-jungle free-for-all then the nations, the factions and the storyline Frontier are trying to build through PowerPlay all become pointless.

According to your theory I'd assume the universe consists from the multiple societies that often collide with each other. It's not only the disputed territories, but also the vast uncontrolled wastelands. So most of the space would be with the social vacuum with no governing system in place. What natural laws should be applicable there?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

According to your theory I'd assume the universe consists from the multiple societies that often collide with each other. It's not only the disputed territories, but also the vast uncontrolled wastelands. So most of the space would be with the social vacuum with no governing system in place. What natural laws should be applicable there?

The law wouldn't be enforced in the uncontrolled wastelands but in the controlled safety zones. A docking request being the most obvious opportunity for a background check.

 

[Toxic_Waster]

The law wouldn't be enforced in the uncontrolled wastelands but in the controlled safety zones. A docking request being the most obvious opportunity for a background check.

Ziggy, the discussion is that ED should not be controlled "by the law of jungle", because supposedly it has the strong governing structures. I beg to differ bcs the way I see it the most of ED space is uncontrolled wasteland where anything goes.