The recent anti pvp ideas concern me. Reasons and "better" suggestions inside

[Roybe]

You guys caught me in a mood so here we go.

I disagree with the notion that it's not inherently a PvP game. It's designed to provide an open, sandboxy, wild-west "blaze your own path" experience. From the very beginning, yes the VERY beginning, it has been advertised as a place where you can play however you want, damn the consequences. They've talked about pirating other players, fighting wars, murdering, doing nasty things, from the very start. Their counter to those who don't want this is solo and group play.

The history of gaming is /wrought/ with games that had an awesome, semi-anarchic approach to PvP and how they were ruined by developers catering to people who were intimidated by it, removing all the real risk and diluting the game into a nice safe grind into riches, and stories of "the old days" when things were actually interesting and challenging and suspenseful and RICH and how that all went away.

I think this game already rewards people too much for playing in the safe zones. We don't need arbitrary limitations in open play. What we need are more mechanics to help PLAYERS solve the problems, not arbitrary fourth-wall-breaking video-gamey garbage.

Revise the bounty system to something that actually has consequences for repeat offenders. Bring in reputation systems that give griefer's something to think about aside from money (which is easy to come by) when causing trouble. These are not problems that need to be solved by REMOVING things from the game. Done right, we can keep the freedom we have, and make it MORE interesting, and encourage MORE people come to open play, and have stories about losses and close calls, risk and reward.

I am not a griefer. I'm the kind of guy that would love to hang around and hunt down griefers. But, do you know what I can't do, if we just turn off PvP? HUNT GRIEFERS. If you make it impossible to be a bad guy, you also make it impossible to be a good guy. We come to play these games because we want something we can't get in real life, and that's RISK. That's CONFLICT.

I cannot overstate this enough. This is about video games being something more than just a senseless pass-time. It's about video games being something more than sit-coms and reality TV. This is about video games giving us moments that sharpen our focus and force us to improve ourselves, both in our skills as well as our mental and emotional fortitude. This is about video games being something good and powerful that has the potential to improve people, and I am very sick, and very tired, of every single game that dares to be something greater than the cloned masses around it to be beat down into submission by swarms of impatient sore losers who so can't stand the feeling of being weak that they blame the game and everyone around them. How DARE they make me work for my rewards?

Do we want to help people have an easier start? Do we want to help guide people along better? Yes, definitely. Do we want to put sweeping limitations on the game so people don't have to feel risk? No. No we don't. You fly, you die, you fly again. Fight for your survival, know the thrill of overcoming difficult odds. Get involved with communities that help you learn to defend yourself and traverse the galaxy more effectively.

Don't come to me and tell me that the game is terrible because you feel terrible about yourself. No, YOU brought that to the table, not the game. It's not the game's fault that you're weak.

Pick yourself up off the ground, get over yourself, and ask for help. We will help you. We will help you become strong, as we have helped many, many before you. It will take work, but it will be worth it.

No one is wanting to 'shut off PvP'. So let's get that one off the table.

People are wanting either an Open PvE mode or PvP flags in Open. The former is something we sort of have...but its implementation is foisting tens of thousands of players on one singular player...no company should ever let that amount of pressure be placed on its customer base...they should provide a feature for that population. An Open PvE mode is the least intrusive to the game..since there is an argument to be made that the game already has a de facto mode...it's just not readily available to all players, since it is hidden in the forums (90% of the players never come here), AND you have to ask permission from a stranger to be welcomed into the group...both unnecessary barriers.

As far as the latter...I'm on the fence about..as that would be a more 'inclusive' way to offer PvE for the playerbase...however, it would enrage the PvP crowd, since they could see prey they would love to kill...but would be frustrated because they couldn't....which is immersion breaking for them.

Anyway...just my two cents to your 2p!

 

[terrycloth]

Adding a PVE flag for open where a cmdr can no longer be shot after enabling it would be irritating for others and an immersion breaker.

Getting shot by players because you're there is irritating and an immersion breaker. The entire galaxy is not 'the bad part of town', except that with PvP it is. It makes no sense.

I've learned my lesson in other games, and there's really nothing that would make me play in multiplayer with PvP enabled.

Well, maybe if they removed the death penalty, but it would have to be the WHOLE penalty -- not just insurance, but you'd have to keep cargo and missions and everything. Even then, getting warped back an unknown number of systems because Mr. PvP bunghole decided that he wanted to mess with you would be pretty aggravating.

Allowing PvP but adding penalties to the aggressor is a horrible idea because it would be abused. With player damage off you could annoy people if you tried really hard, but with damage on and huge penalties... it's really easy to accidentally shoot the wrong person even if they're not trying to get shot, and griefers would.

Allowing PvP but having NPC forces join in to help the victim is better, since it usually lets the 'aggressor' run away instead of pressing the attack so it's harder to abuse. It's also hard to imagine it making much of a difference, given how fast you can die though.

The best solution is probably a PvE flag, because while it doesn't necessarily stop all griefing, it makes the griefers exploiters who can be banned. It's been used in other games and it works pretty well.

Then you can turn PvP on for controlled situations that people like me could avoid. Whole systems is probably pushing it, although if it was something like 'Archon Delaine territory' it would be possible to just stay away. Having PvP instances shouldn't cause problems, although you wouldn't want it to be all instances. (eg, have a 'conflict zone: low intensity' and 'conflict zone: low intensity pvp')

 

[Asp Explorer]

It's not the game's fault that you're weak.

Thankyou for my best LULZ of the day

 

[FuzzySpider]

Open is for all the people out there that like to meet other people whether they are friendly or not, whether they have a reason to attack/ help you, or not. Anything can happen at any time.

Is it?

An all beam-wielding anaconda flown by a player who has been in the game since beta can hang around Eravate and destroy sidewinders flown by players who only just got the game in a Steam sale today. There is very obviously a massive gulf between these players in terms of balance, so much so that pitting them together can only be the result of;

1. Flawed PvP mechanics.

2. The game is not PvP oriented.

The solutions to problem 1 are very different to problem 2.

If this really is to be a PvP oriented game then it needs a proper matchmaker so that only comparable ships are instanced with each other. A skill balancer so that players meet people of comparable ability and PvP winrates meet, some sort of ladder league perhaps?

The solutions to problem 2 have been discussed many times (better system security, bounty system tweaks etc), so I won't rehash them again. But Frontier really need to decide once and for all whether this is game is Arena or Elite.

 

[raok]

Just have to add some reason for PvP.

Open needs own thing to do, that cannot be altered from solo/priv. Right now there is no reason for PvP. It is already negative and useless enough.

 

[Roybe]

Getting shot by players because you're there is irritating and an immersion breaker. The entire galaxy is not 'the bad part of town', except that with PvP it is. It makes no sense.

I've learned my lesson in other games, and there's really nothing that would make me play in multiplayer with PvP enabled.

Well, maybe if they removed the death penalty, but it would have to be the WHOLE penalty -- not just insurance, but you'd have to keep cargo and missions and everything. Even then, getting warped back an unknown number of systems because Mr. PvP bunghole decided that he wanted to mess with you would be pretty aggravating.

Allowing PvP but adding penalties to the aggressor is a horrible idea because it would be abused. With player damage off you could annoy people if you tried really hard, but with damage on and huge penalties... it's really easy to accidentally shoot the wrong person even if they're not trying to get shot, and griefers would.

Allowing PvP but having NPC forces join in to help the victim is better, since it usually lets the 'aggressor' run away instead of pressing the attack so it's harder to abuse. It's also hard to imagine it making much of a difference, given how fast you can die though.

The best solution is probably a PvE flag, because while it doesn't necessarily stop all griefing, it makes the griefers exploiters who can be banned. It's been used in other games and it works pretty well.

Then you can turn PvP on for controlled situations that people like me could avoid. Whole systems is probably pushing it, although if it was something like 'Archon Delaine territory' it would be possible to just stay away. Having PvP instances shouldn't cause problems, although you wouldn't want it to be all instances. (eg, have a 'conflict zone: low intensity' and 'conflict zone: low intensity pvp')

The immersion breaking part for the other side really is that some things are attackable...and others are not...and until you try to attack a flagged player you would not be able to tell. Currently, anyone can attack anything. This is the one reason why I find the ideas of PvP flags bothersome in this game. It would be good if there were an Open PvE mode...or even better public groups that can be seen from the login screen, advertising adjusted rulesets, that allowed people to play the way they really desired to. (which is an advertised feature from the Kick Starter)

How does getting attacked change your immersion? NPC's do it all the time. (I do get the point that it's another player...and they are making a choice to kill you)...but that does not change the way the galaxy looks...if that was a solid box, rather than a hollow one...would you be happier?

 

[tresch]

Tell me preciselt why a company shouldn't "let that pressure be on their customer base?" The developer can make the game they want to make. if people want to play it differently, they have that options. it's awesome that they've made that option available for people, but they're under no obligation whatsoever to change the fundamental nature of their game to appease a certain group of players. This game gets compared to UO a lot, and every conversation about UO always starts with "remember how awesome it was beforw they split out PvP and PvE?"

Doing that comes at a price, and the price is steep. There are better ways of making the game accesible without just throwing up your hands and giving everyone an easy way out. At least, in UO, there were rewards to going to the PvP shard. Riches to be had. in Elite, nothing.

So, no. I don't think we need another game mode. I think we need creativity.

 

[Kristov]

MOST, not all, but most of the complaints about PvPers, which are almost exclusively aimed at 'griefers' and 'gankers', could be fixed with a very simple solution that already has the framework for it ingame.

System Authority, The Powers That Be and the Pilots Federation.

System Authority, the local governments and their security forces. Make them effective for starters, systems with high populations that are wealthy, you won't be seeing Eagles and Vipers as the ships the cops fly around in, you'll be seeing Vultures at the least, real combat ships capable of dealing with law breakers. Low pop, poor systems, yeah, Eagles and Vipers would be proper. Federation space, FAS/FGS, Imperial space, Vultures and Clippers, big wealthy systems with high pops, Corvettes and Cutters, and systems like Sol, Achenar, the big navy ships, not these rinky dink little ships that patrol those systems now.

Powers That Be, Fed/Imp/Alliance, they should ALSO have ships in many of the systems as they've got a stake in making sure they are safe, so you'll have more than JUST the local cops coming after you, you'll have navy forces coming after you as well, Federal G/AS, Clippers, and FDLs/Vultures of the Alliance, along with the Corvette and Cutters and the really big ships, depending on the system and it's relative wealth/position/importance to the Powers That Be. Quite a few systems will have none of this of course, they aren't important enough, they'd just have local system security forces, if that.

Pilots Federation, they should be putting bounties on your head for any acts of aggression against any clean member of the Pilots Federation, that is the players. They should be sending out Attitude Correction Specialists to deal with you for those acts of aggression, that is how collects the bounties, not other players, which prevents the abuse that was so rampant at first and caused the bounties we have now to be so stupidly low. NPCs who are nothing but killers, they want you dead, and until they kill you, you will remain wanted by the Pilots Federation and ONLY places without any law will allow you to dock, everywhere else, KOS, but that doesn't remove the bounty, only the ACS killing you removes that bounty. This prevents the pirates and psychopathic killers from doing what they do now, which is be safe in the heart of the Federation/Empire/Alliance while killing clean, unwanted players all day long. The Pilots Federation has the reach to make sure all stations, outposts and bases in the bubble know that you are wanted, that you are to be denied docking, and anyone who ignores that, well, there's a reason the Pilots Federation is the power behind the throne that it is...which is why only the lawless systems will be safe for you if you have a PF bounty on your head.

There is some potential for abuse with that PF bounty, but something can be figured out with it, I'll let someone else see if they can figure it out, but otherwise, I personally think this little system would go a very long way to making Open more appealing, and making being a bad guy something that's actually worth doing for those of us who wanted to be a bad guy but realized, it's probably the safest profession in the game.

 

[Roybe]

Tell me preciselt why a company shouldn't "let that pressure be on their customer base?" The developer can make the game they want to make. if people want to play it differently, they have that options. it's awesome that they've made that option available for people, but they're under no obligation whatsoever to change the fundamental nature of their game to appease a certain group of players. This game gets compared to UO a lot, and every conversation about UO always starts with "remember how awesome it was beforw they split out PvP and PvE?"

Doing that comes at a price, and the price is steep. There are better ways of making the game accesible without just throwing up your hands and giving everyone an easy way out. At least, in UO, there were rewards to going to the PvP shard. Riches to be had. in Elite, nothing.

So, no. I don't think we need another game mode. I think we need creativity.

This isn't UO...and you do realize the reason UO was able to last was BECAUSE they created a PvE mode, right?

Should a company desire 20k players to be held by one player, whose only common interest is a desire to play without other player interjection...a feature of every other MMO type game in the industry?

All the above just seems like to much risk, for a game that is meant and designed to be niche. Provide the proper flags, and choices on the starting screen, so that people can interact anyway they desire and the whole game becomes stronger for the capability....well except for maybe direct PvP...but that is not really meant to be more than a little distraction for people in this game anyway...so no harm, no foul then. (If you hadn't notice a lot of the PVP players and groups are realizing this and finding other things to do in this...and mostly other...games)

 

[bkrownd]

Don't come to me and tell me that the game is terrible because you feel terrible about yourself. No, YOU brought that to the table, not the game. It's not the game's fault that you're weak.

You seem to be missing the fact that many of us have absolutely zero interest in combat. I came to the game to do creative and cooperative stuff. Not conflict. Plenty of conflict in real life, thanks.

 

[willowfan]

MOST, not all, but most of the complaints about PvPers, which are almost exclusively aimed at 'griefers' and 'gankers', could be fixed with a very simple solution that already has the framework for it ingame.

System Authority, The Powers That Be and the Pilots Federation.

System Authority, the local governments and their security forces. Make them effective for starters, systems with high populations that are wealthy, you won't be seeing Eagles and Vipers as the ships the cops fly around in, you'll be seeing Vultures at the least, real combat ships capable of dealing with law breakers. Low pop, poor systems, yeah, Eagles and Vipers would be proper. Federation space, FAS/FGS, Imperial space, Vultures and Clippers, big wealthy systems with high pops, Corvettes and Cutters, and systems like Sol, Achenar, the big navy ships, not these rinky dink little ships that patrol those systems now.

Powers That Be, Fed/Imp/Alliance, they should ALSO have ships in many of the systems as they've got a stake in making sure they are safe, so you'll have more than JUST the local cops coming after you, you'll have navy forces coming after you as well, Federal G/AS, Clippers, and FDLs/Vultures of the Alliance, along with the Corvette and Cutters and the really big ships, depending on the system and it's relative wealth/position/importance to the Powers That Be. Quite a few systems will have none of this of course, they aren't important enough, they'd just have local system security forces, if that.

Pilots Federation, they should be putting bounties on your head for any acts of aggression against any clean member of the Pilots Federation, that is the players. They should be sending out Attitude Correction Specialists to deal with you for those acts of aggression, that is how collects the bounties, not other players, which prevents the abuse that was so rampant at first and caused the bounties we have now to be so stupidly low. NPCs who are nothing but killers, they want you dead, and until they kill you, you will remain wanted by the Pilots Federation and ONLY places without any law will allow you to dock, everywhere else, KOS, but that doesn't remove the bounty, only the ACS killing you removes that bounty. This prevents the pirates and psychopathic killers from doing what they do now, which is be safe in the heart of the Federation/Empire/Alliance while killing clean, unwanted players all day long. The Pilots Federation has the reach to make sure all stations, outposts and bases in the bubble know that you are wanted, that you are to be denied docking, and anyone who ignores that, well, there's a reason the Pilots Federation is the power behind the throne that it is...which is why only the lawless systems will be safe for you if you have a PF bounty on your head.

There is some potential for abuse with that PF bounty, but something can be figured out with it, I'll let someone else see if they can figure it out, but otherwise, I personally think this little system would go a very long way to making Open more appealing, and making being a bad guy something that's actually worth doing for those of us who wanted to be a bad guy but realized, it's probably the safest profession in the game.

I like the idea of the Pilots Federation bounty that's only collectable by enforcer npcs, thus at a stroke preventing abuse.

 

[Deerjesus]

You seem to be missing the fact that many of us have absolutely zero interest in combat. I came to the game to do creative and cooperative stuff. Not conflict. Plenty of conflict in real life, thanks.

Then why did you begin playing Elite: Dangerous? Combat is an integral part of the game. Majority of ships are combat capable. The systems in game currently revolve primarily around combat. Trading will have NPCs interdicting you to kill/rob you, same with smuggling, and mining. You mention before you want to play the game in an open MMO manner, well start accepting that that has consequences to it, as it should. Both from NPCs and players.

 

[FuzzySpider]

Then why did you begin playing Elite: Dangerous? Combat is an integral part of the game. Majority of ships are combat capable. The systems in game currently revolve primarily around combat. Trading will have NPCs interdicting you to kill/rob you, same with smuggling, and mining. You mention before you want to play the game in an open MMO manner, well start accepting that that has consequences to it, as it should. Both from NPCs and players.

The game doesn't revolve around combat, not by any stretch of the imagination.

As I mentioned earlier there is no matchmaking, there is no vehicle tier balancing, and there is absolutely no effort to make combat even or fair or enjoyable for both parties. The vast majority of the missions in game are not combat oriented at all. Combat is there of course, but to call this a combat-based game is to be intellectually dishonest.

 

[Bill Clement]

I'm not pro-anything except for the game itself but do tend to lean more towards the pvp side of the argument where Open is concerned and, because of that, I have to disagree with you on the bolded text. This game is equal parts PvP and PvE in open and a player's actions are what ultimately decides that. If you go to Washington DC (Assuming you're an American) then you'll very likely take the time to learn which parts of the city you shouldn't go into (assuming you're a smart American). The same practice applies to this game. You don't go into SDC/Code space and expect to be left alone. You don't go to a high visibility CG (in open) and expect to be left alone.

To traverse a living galaxy (or a living bubble within said galaxy) and expect to be able to just flit about from A to B with no regard for the locals or for the actions and methods of the locals is to invite danger upon yourself. I wouldn't go to a CG and expect to not encounter at least 2-3 hostile players the same way I wouldn't walk through the shadier parts of my own city (not DC) and expect to come through unscathed. The police can't be everywhere at once and even if you call them they probably won't make it before some serious harm is inflicted. Why people think it's acceptable to demand that safety barriers be put up in place to protect them from the bad people in space is something I truly wish to know. Open is open, through and through. Anything goes all the time.

We here, on the forums (the active commenters/contributors, good or bad) represent the tiniest slice of the Elite community. At most I would ask that Frontier expand the control mechanisms for Private Groups so that multiple people could handle the acceptance/denial of prospective members. I would also expect a hard coded "no player damage" flag to be added to said mechanics to truly give players a pve only environment in whatever group they join. I wouldn't expect them to change much else though beyond perhaps tweaking the reputation system to carry a bit more clout across systems.

Can you see the problem with that statement? I'm a Beta backer, 2nd class, reasonably active on the forum. I have absolutely no clue where SDC/Code space is. I know that if I go there I'll get griefed or ganked by bullying moro... not very clever people, beyond that I'm at a loss. Far fewer than 10% of any game's community visit their forum. 90% of our fellow players don't even know what Code is. If they wander into an area that has no marker, no visible boundary and no official standing in the eyes of the games Developer, then get ganked to blazes, what do you think their thoughts on the matter are likely to be?

'Oh well, I should have known better than to go to the rough part of town'?

My first experience of griefing was at a community event- yes, I learned my lesson. However, the main thing I took away was 'sod joining another CG, those numpties can find some other mug to pick on'.Not- 'oh, well, I should have known the cost of joining a multi-player environment is accepting that someone in a big combat ship gets to kick the excrement out of me, isn't this fun!'

I'm all up for 'rare but meaningfulTM' PvP. I've enjoyed playing against other CMDRs in Conflict Zones, running from bounty hunters and I hope and dream of some day meeting a real pirate. But I'd also very much like to peacefully interact with the vast majority of players in our community. Right now everyone runs away from my fighters and multi role ships and I'm not willing to play in open in a trader. I might as well be flying solo. This is a direct consequence of a minority of our player base indulging in utterly meaningless PvP.

Kudos for your many suggestions, but the basic assumption that the price of human interaction in Elite Dangerous should be the willingness to take a good kicking from tedious brats in stupidly overgunned combat ships is just plain wrong. It's shaping up to be that way, which is why so many players are either looking for another game or playing the other modes. 'Go play Moebius' might sound like a pithy reply, but so many players are doing just that- playing in groups, solo or just leaving the game- that PvPers are starting to run out of opponents. Why else oppose the possibility of an 'official Moebious'? Asking for a formal PvE mode isn't anti-PvP, it's not anti anything, it's pro playing with like minded players. Call them carebears, call them grown up, call them anything you can get past the censor on here, but it's clear that a lot of players want the option. I'd quite like to try it myself. If it's dull and boring, people will flock back to open, if it's fun, they won't. Either way, they'll keep on playing our game a little longer and that should be a concern for all of us. The longer our fellow players stay, the more chance there is of them putting coin in FDs pocket and the more the game will be developed. The alternative could well be seeing the game wither on the vine and FD putting their efforts into winning over the console crowd with ever shinier CQC content...

 

[SnowyNI]

All ideas are helpful in regards to the discussion itself.

The question then becomes whether or not frontier will actually implement anything. I really don't see them changing anything.

A easy, yet costly way to combat any report, cheat or anything else would be for FD to run in game mods/GMs. If someone is being a Ahat and/or cheating then the report goes in and a ship jumps in, either watches said player and bans/removes them or has a harsh word in their ear. It used to work wonders in DAoC if someone was cheating or using a radar type program. They soon all vanished or got perma banned. ofc, it would cost FD cash so can't see it happening... maybe if they added subs? But thats a whole different kettle of fish for another time.

 

[Deerjesus]

The game doesn't revolve around combat, not by any stretch of the imagination.

As I mentioned earlier there is no matchmaking, there is no vehicle tier balancing, and there is absolutely no effort to make combat even or fair or enjoyable for both parties. The vast majority of the missions in game are not combat oriented at all. Combat is there of course, but to call this a combat-based game is to be intellectually dishonest.

When there are NPCs looking to attack you for every mission you take, that is when a game revolves around combat. But this is entirely irrelevant to the main point: if you wish to have the advantages of a MMO type environment, you must also accept the consequences.

"To call this a combat-basegame is to be intellectually dishonest"

MAJORITY of ships are combat/multi role ships. The Hauler, Type 6, 7 and 9 Heavies, and Orca are the only ships in game which do not revolve around multi-role or combat (save for a few having some defense points). To say that this game's primary gameplay ISN'T combat is being "intellectually dishonest". But I wish to stress again, you go into a game in which a major aspect of it is combat, you should expect to have to deal with that. And what you don't understand is that, even if some of the people described in thread are punished properly, their interaction with you may still result in your death leading you to still call it "unfair".

 

[Kristov]

Then why did you begin playing Elite: Dangerous? Combat is an integral part of the game. Majority of ships are combat capable. The systems in game currently revolve primarily around combat. Trading will have NPCs interdicting you to kill/rob you, same with smuggling, and mining. You mention before you want to play the game in an open MMO manner, well start accepting that that has consequences to it, as it should. Both from NPCs and players.

As already stated, no, combat isn't an integral part of the game, you even said yourself, the majority of ships are combat capable, which means some of them are NOT combat capable, therefore, combat isn't integral to the game or ALL ships would be combat capable.

You can avoid any combat situation in the game right now, NPC or Player, doesn't matter, you can avoid it via the ingame mechanic of jumping to another system. Many people don't have weapons on their ships, they don't need them, they don't do combat, there's nothing that makes you do combat if you don't want to.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

When there are NPCs looking to attack you for every mission you take, that is when a game revolves around combat. But this is entirely irrelevant to the main point: if you wish to have the advantages of a MMO type environment, you must also accept the consequences.

"To call this a combat-basegame is to be intellectually dishonest"

MAJORITY of ships are combat/multi role ships. The Hauler, Type 6, 7 and 9 Heavies, and Orca are the only ships in game which do not revolve around multi-role or combat (save for a few having some defense points). To say that this game's primary gameplay ISN'T combat is being "intellectually dishonest". But I wish to stress again, you go into a game in which a major aspect of it is combat, you should expect to have to deal with that. And what you don't understand is that, even if some of the people described in thread are punished properly, their interaction with you may still result in your death leading you to still call it "unfair".

Since when does MMO mean PvP? They are not interchangeable terms you know, something that's been pointed out in this thread already. Hello Kitty Online, Second Life, both MMOs, neither involving PvP. DDO, PvP was added to it at the request of a very very vocal minority, but it was added as something like CQC is here, a side thing, doesn't happen in the main game, and has no effect on anything at all. The REST of DDO, no PvP at all, ever, under any circumstances. There's other MMOs like that as well, PvP isn't a requirement to be an MMO, might want to keep that in mind.

 

[Operator83]

I really do not see the problem here. We have 3 game modes open (free for all, no rules) solo and private group. All modes of game are connected and new players can start in solo or group. With experience, better ship and lots of credits go to open if they want to.I was been victim of griefers and cheaters too when i starting to play this game. I was playing in open. After few deaths I moved to safety of solo mode until I bought bigger and stronger ship to fight and joined the B.I.G guild. In my opinion the biggest problem are the players who want to play in open without consequences, without risk. Whats the point then to have Open mode?

Sorry for the spelling, english is not my native language.

 

[terrycloth]

The immersion breaking part for the other side really is that some things are attackable...and others are not...and until you try to attack a flagged player you would not be able to tell. Currently, anyone can attack anything. This is the one reason why I find the ideas of PvP flags bothersome in this game. It would be good if there were an Open PvE mode...or even better public groups that can be seen from the login screen, advertising adjusted rulesets, that allowed people to play the way they really desired to. (which is an advertised feature from the Kick Starter)

How does getting attacked change your immersion? NPC's do it all the time. (I do get the point that it's another player...and they are making a choice to kill you)...but that does not change the way the galaxy looks...if that was a solid box, rather than a hollow one...would you be happier?

The NPCs attacking you can be immersion-breaking too. Not that it happens at all, but some of the things that trigger it are... broken.

When I was just starting out I accidentally wandered into Archon Delaine space and got my hauler blown up twice by NPCs. That wasn't immersion-breaking once I realized what was happening! But when I pick up a bunch of missions and have NPCs chasing me down from system to system either to interdict me or (WORSE) to tell me that they want to talk and I should follow their wake, that gets a bit silly.

Or NPC pirates identifying me as 'the one with the big haul' when I'm in an explorer-fit diamondback scout with zero cargo space. Has anyone ever carried cargo in a DBS?

Or, when during the brief time I signed up for powerplay before I turned it back off, I would get constantly interdicted by 'enemies' no matter what I was doing or where.

But those can be fixed. I mean, they won't be, but they could. And in general, you get interdicted more in 'the bad part of town' or in systems with an ongoing civil war. They're *trying* to make it make sense.

Player behavior can't be fixed as easily. Also, PvPers will always win every fight because they care about it more and practice, so it's guaranteed to be un-fun as opposed to NPC interdictions where you can fight back and usually win. It's more disruptive to your gameplay so it matters more if it's illogical.

 

[bkrownd]

Then why did you begin playing Elite: Dangerous? Combat is an integral part of the game. Majority of ships are combat capable. The systems in game currently revolve primarily around combat. Trading will have NPCs interdicting you to kill/rob you, same with smuggling, and mining. You mention before you want to play the game in an open MMO manner, well start accepting that that has consequences to it, as it should. Both from NPCs and players.

I began playing ED because I saw youTube videos of exploration, of trading, and the interesting spectacle of numerous players peacefully flying in and out of the stations and around the systems together. That's the game I came to play, and these things do not "revolve primarily around combat". I do exploration without combat. I do trading without combat. I play the BGS without combat. I fly around and enjoy all the eye candy without any combat. Combat just one aspect of the game that has a place in certain situations such as conflict zones and faction wars.