The recent anti pvp ideas concern me. Reasons and "better" suggestions inside

[Oldric]

Leaving anarchy systems aside for a minute...

There are as I see it valid reasons why cmdrs would engage in PvP, opposing a CG, promoting their minor faction, Power play and combat zones for example. There is a long way still to go developing this game so it maybe somewhere down the line PvE will provide a rewarding experience and sustained challenge for the average player.

I have a few hundred hours playtime now, I'm not sure it would be possible to pull me into a PvP battle if I didn't want it. So I can, to some extent understand people claiming PvP isn't supported. There's a particularly nasty bit of griefing happening around the lave cluster and it is proving impossible to bring the griefer to battle. I can't though see how any change in flight mechanics or some such wouldn't cut both ways and lead to even more grief. The game itself needs to recognise greifing and act against it.

Fat slow freighters and the little inexpensive ships are always going be extremely vulnerable to cmdrs in well equipped combat ships. God bless you if you do fly these in open, the world really does need more optimists.

But I think cmdrs need more information in game. if there are valid reasons why they could be attacked by players or NPC's then shouldn't our sensors warn us of this as they do in a combat zone...did IFF not make it to the 34th century?.

What I suggest is

player v player kills outside of this should enrich the game for the saints and sinners alike. Laws need to be enforced and like real life if your mad or bad enough you lose your freedom...

Tie offenders into roles to work off meaningful fines/bounties weld them into a viper for system security, asp scout for the navy, a hauler for system salvage, a T6 for hauling bio waste. etc

 

[goemon]

Then why did you begin playing Elite: Dangerous? Combat is an integral part of the game. Majority of ships are combat capable. The systems in game currently revolve primarily around combat. Trading will have NPCs interdicting you to kill/rob you, same with smuggling, and mining. You mention before you want to play the game in an open MMO manner, well start accepting that that has consequences to it, as it should. Both from NPCs and players.

Then why did you begin playing elite: dangerous? exploration is an integral part of the game. all ships are exploration capable. every ship comes with a basic discovery scanner. the systems in game currently revolve primarily around exploring the galaxy. trading will have you jump to other systems to explore, same with smuggling, or bounty hunting - you have to find a res site, you'll have to explore the gas giants and rings. you mention before you want to play the game in an open MMO manner, well start accepting that this means to explore the open galaxy. every player should go out exploring.

;-)

 

[Roybe]

The NPCs attacking you can be immersion-breaking too. Not that it happens at all, but some of the things that trigger it are... broken.

When I was just starting out I accidentally wandered into Archon Delaine space and got my hauler blown up twice by NPCs. That wasn't immersion-breaking once I realized what was happening! But when I pick up a bunch of missions and have NPCs chasing me down from system to system either to interdict me or (WORSE) to tell me that they want to talk and I should follow their wake, that gets a bit silly.

Or NPC pirates identifying me as 'the one with the big haul' when I'm in an explorer-fit diamondback scout with zero cargo space. Has anyone ever carried cargo in a DBS?

Or, when during the brief time I signed up for powerplay before I turned it back off, I would get constantly interdicted by 'enemies' no matter what I was doing or where.

But those can be fixed. I mean, they won't be, but they could. And in general, you get interdicted more in 'the bad part of town' or in systems with an ongoing civil war. They're *trying* to make it make sense.

Player behavior can't be fixed as easily. Also, PvPers will always win every fight because they care about it more and practice, so it's guaranteed to be un-fun as opposed to NPC interdictions where you can fight back and usually win. It's more disruptive to your gameplay so it matters more if it's illogical.

No arguments from me on the NPC behaviors....that is another issue that needs to be addressed...

However, I do see the PvP part of the discussion....and am on the fence about a PvP flag vs. Open PvE because of it. Everyone's mileage will vary...but there is merit to the PvP complaint.

I think the public groups, publically advertised with varying rulesets is the best solution...however, due to the time it might take to create that part of the game...some other option needs to be added to allow everyone to actually play the way they desire.

 

[Toxic_Waster]

Then why did you begin playing elite: dangerous? exploration is an integral part of the game. all ships are exploration capable. every ship comes with a basic discovery scanner. the systems in game currently revolve primarily around exploring the galaxy. trading will have you jump to other systems to explore, same with smuggling, or bounty hunting - you have to find a res site, you'll have to explore the gas giants and rings. you mention before you want to play the game in an open MMO manner, well start accepting that this means to explore the open galaxy. every player should go out exploring.

;-)

Exploration of the procedurally generated universe gets old very quickly.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

Exploration of the procedurally generated universe gets old very quickly.

Oh yeah?

Well, that's just, like, your opinion, mang.

 

[Toxic_Waster]

Oh yeah?

Well, that's just, like, your opinion, mang.

What is my opinion? That the universe is procedurally generated and the meaningful content is injected into the game by the company?

 

[Asp Explorer]

Exploration of the procedurally generated universe gets old very quickly.

To you maybe. For some people, mindless pew-pew gets old just as quickly.

 

[Toxic_Waster]

To you maybe. For some people, mindless pew-pew gets old just as quickly.

Note I never called the exploration of auto-generated shapes mindless because I'm staying respective of your hobby. Yet you didn't wait a second to add some adjectives. It's pretty much the same when you can call whoever you want a "griefer", but if I call you a "carebear" it's the immediate call to 911. "Officer, I want to report the terrorist attack. Beep Beep."

 

[Asp Explorer]

Note I never called the exploration of auto-generated shapes mindless because I'm staying respective of your hobby. Yet you didn't wait a second to add some adjectives. It's pretty much the same when you can call whoever you want a "griefer", but if I call you a "carebear" it's the immediate call to 911. "Officer, I want to report the terrorist attack. Beep Beep."

Hardly. Mindless any-activity gets old very quickly. It's just far easier in Elite to pew-pew with no heed to "reason". You can shoot absolutely everything you see whenever you want to, completely indiscriminately of whether those are players, NPC's, or system assets.

It's far harder to mindlessly trade - you'd run out of cash in no time. It's far harder to mindlessly explore - you won't get anywhere. It's far harder to mindlessly pirate, as you'll never get anything. It's far harder to mindlessly bounty-hunt, as you'll end up with a bigger bounty than your targets. See what I mean?

 

[Toxic_Waster]

Hardly. Mindless any-activity gets old very quickly. It's just far easier in Elite to pew-pew with no heed to "reason". You can shoot absolutely everything you see whenever you want to, completely indiscriminately of whether those are players, NPC's, or system assets.

It's far harder to mindlessly trade - you'd run out of cash in no time. It's far harder to mindlessly explore - you won't get anywhere. It's far harder to mindlessly pirate, as you'll never get anything. It's far harder to mindlessly bounty-hunt, as you'll end up with a bigger bounty than your targets. See what I mean?

I see. You mean it is not hard to have mindless double standards and have no class.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Hey guys. I feel encouraged to post the following because i am really concerned about the recent anti pvp movement and the ideas plopping out of it.

Before we continue i want to note that i defend the opinion that

Solo caters all the people that want to be left alone and don't want to socialize in any way at all.

Group caters all the people that want to play with just their friends in a closed environment or in a group with special rules like mobius

Open is for all the people out there that like to meet other people whether they are friendly or not, whether they have a reason to attack/ help you, or not. Anything can happen at any time.

That is it. There is no 'recent anti-pvp movement', there is just the same old debate being repeated ad nausea. You have some nice idea but its largely not so important. If someone cant stand the idea something does something they dont see the purpose of, stay out of Open. If you dont demand constant justification from everybody else: welcome. There are minor issues with crime FD has acknowledge and will deal with. As with everything: ignore the opinions of those who dont participate. The ED community is like a public swimming pool. Loads of folks are having fun, while some people are standing around, fully dressed, warning people the water is really cold, the beer really warm, and someone's uncle may have peed into the pool.

 

[Asp Explorer]

I see. You mean it is not hard to have mindless double standards and have no class.

Of course not. That is my speciality.

 

[Toxic_Waster]

Of course not. That is my speciality.

I knew it from the beginning =))

 

[Oldric]

The ED community is like a public swimming pool. Loads of folks are having fun, while some people are standing around, fully dressed, warning people the water is really cold, the beer really warm, and someone's uncle may have peed into the pool.

Very true and gave me a chuckle...thank god you didn't refer to the depth, oh how they like to bang on about the depth.

 

[Red Anders]

Oh good, another four pages of people writing 'we' and 'the players' when they mean 'I' and 'me'. Not to mention my perennial favourite, people defining for themselves what is important to them in the game (which is a good thing) but then using that to elevate themseves to being the 'strongest' and the 'best', without having the self awareness to understand that those are definitions which only exist and only have any value inside their own heads.

I'll get back to the game once I've cleaned all this hubris out of my PC, it's clogging up the fans.

 

[CMDR At - Heist]

This seems to be a debate (not just this thread) that has people, calling out for the "PVP'ers" who prey on the souls of the unwilling... to be punished or completely prohibited from doing the dirty deed.

Do I think that they should be stopped??? No. This is a sandbox game... and if you're gonna get in,,, you have to realize... some people like to throw sand.

Although I do agree that some measures should be taken

1: certain areas in the bubble where there is no tolerance for killing an unwilling player ( Safe space ) obviously the unsafe areas yield greater rewards for traders and the like

2: I played eve and there was a cloaking mechanic for your ship... now it was still possible to get uncloaked and chewed up but it improved your chances... I find it hard to believe that we can travel the speed of light and beyond, but we can't cloak our ships??

balance is the key I think... people can't just get together and decide that PVP'ers are ruining the game for everyone... it's a sandbox game... they can do what they like.

 

[metatheurgist]

The ED community is like a public swimming pool. Loads of folks are having fun, while some people are standing around, fully dressed, warning people the water is really cold, the beer really warm, and someone's uncle may have peed into the pool.

You forgot the guys randomly drowning people for fun because it's something that can be done and must therefore be allowed.

 

[Jesters09]

Nature, human or otherwise has a way of finding its own equilibrium, so this PvP/PvE will balance itself out in time.
People lose interest or move on to other activities in game.
Killing other players, costing them credits may provide a quick fix for some, but eventually it will get old and they will miss the camaraderie real group play has the potential to offer.

Dont get me wrong, the game needs these players at the moment, but when 2.1 drops, maybe we will all need to play a little more intelligently.

 

[bbqsamich]

This seems to be a debate (not just this thread) that has people, calling out for the "PVP'ers" who prey on the souls of the unwilling... to be punished or completely prohibited from doing the dirty deed.

Do I think that they should be stopped??? No. This is a sandbox game... and if you're gonna get in,,, you have to realize... some people like to throw sand.

people can't just get together and decide that PVP'ers are ruining the game for everyone... it's a sandbox game... they can do what they like

Exactly, you don't like risk, play in private/solo. Private gives you the option to play with friends without worrying about playing with people who's play styles you don't like. Anyone can make a private group. Solo is perfect for people who like to play alone...

Although I do agree that some measures should be taken

1: certain areas in the bubble where there is no tolerance for killing an unwilling player ( Safe space ) obviously the unsafe areas yield greater rewards for traders and the like

Hell no. We already have this. Anarchy system? Free for all. Govt system? System authority. At best, I'd agree to a mechanic that the system authority is *harder* in systems with higher security (lockdowns, etc) as I don't think this is the case currently (I've taken out wave upon wave of cops). You can't change the reactionary nature of police. That's the problem with relying on police... they are reactionary. If you are in a sector so space that is heavily pirated, move on... there's a bagillion stars... Or, get some escorts. Plenty of players and groups sell escort services. Or, if you don't want to hire friends, make some! You cannot expect to play in open alone. That'd be like expecting to make it up the navy faction tree without completing missions.

If I get concordukkinedin Elite because people want to cry about risk... I may as well play eve. If you don't like getting killed, play in solo. At least the option exists.

Actually, let's make a deal. If you don't like getting killed play in solo/private. Then, PvPers should stop complaining about solo players flipping system influence and making me lose CGs so everyone can stop whining.

 

[Bill Clement]

This seems to be a debate (not just this thread) that has people, calling out for the "PVP'ers" who prey on the souls of the unwilling... to be punished or completely prohibited from doing the dirty deed.

Do I think that they should be stopped??? No. This is a sandbox game... and if you're gonna get in,,, you have to realize... some people like to throw sand.

Although I do agree that some measures should be taken

1: certain areas in the bubble where there is no tolerance for killing an unwilling player ( Safe space ) obviously the unsafe areas yield greater rewards for traders and the like

2: I played eve and there was a cloaking mechanic for your ship... now it was still possible to get uncloaked and chewed up but it improved your chances... I find it hard to believe that we can travel the speed of light and beyond, but we can't cloak our ships??

balance is the key I think... people can't just get together and decide that PVP'ers are ruining the game for everyone... it's a sandbox game... they can do what they like.

I'm sure there are some mate, but I don't think the OP was talking about those people (am I right, rkstr?), it's about measures to counter the pro-PvE sentiment. I certainly don't want to stop people PvPing (is that a thing?) but I also would really, really like the opportunity to actually interact with other human players. Trouble being, everywhere I go, the miners, traders and even guys in similar ships (but lower combat ranking) just scarper. It's getting real old. An official Moebius, either on a trust basis or with flags or some kind of reporting system (or whatever else is quickest, cheapest and easiest to implement) would provide the expectation in other players that their fellows aren't about to bend them over just for the lulz.
DBs notion that the players would all get together to police open was wildly optimistic- most of the guys interested in combat want an edge, they gravitate toward the biggest, badest ships, pack hunting and sooner or later start to pick on targets that have absolutely no chance of hitting back. That really puts a downer on other player's game experience.
The ones who don't want to kick each other's faces in are pretty much avoiding everyone they don't know, now. The promised, widely advertised and much hyped co-operative nature of Elite Dangerous just hasn't happened for most of us. The PvP crowd are frustrated at the lack of combat, many just PKing anyone they meet 'becuz it's dangerous', other players are too paranoid to interact with strangers and this whole show is in real danger of slithering down to becoming a first person Eve 2!
Yes it's a sandbox where people can do what they like, but that has consequences. It's starting to feel a bit like Lord of the Flies around here... (ask your Dad! )