Should there be an 'Open' Player Vs Environment Option on the Login Screen

[eza]

I'm on board with this, too.

At the same time I think they should continue to listen to their customers and remain open to evolving their vision as their understanding of their customer base matures. I certainly don't think that Open PvE should be added to the game just because I want it. I don't even know if I think they should add it just because around half of the community wants it. I do think that they should consider it, whether it would benefit their overall vision, and whether it would result in a more enjoyable game for everyone.

Completely agree. Which is why I thought the quote from Blizzard's lead designer was quite pertinent. It's a couple of pages back now (daamn this thread moves quickly!) so I'll repaste here:
"Diablo II and the expansion are the games that we at Blizzard want to play. That is our formula for success. Companies that design games based on focus groups, marketing opinions, and even fan input do not succeed. Although hearing the opinions of others are valuable to us, every design decision must pass the test of whether or not WE would want it in the game. In many cases, we've changed our minds after hearing compelling arguments. But we've decided that PKing is part of the Diablo universe. We are well aware that this does not please everyone. However, you are right: we are not apologetic about it. Not at all. Sure, we could implement a PK switch. It's a trivial coding task. But we wouldn't be being true to ourselves, and our goals as gamemakers."

Sure there is. Example: you will never be able to engage me in PvP in Elite no matter what you do. Edit: reading comprehansion for the win? You were talking about Eve. I guess I could say that the pve area there is "I don't play eve and never will", but the truth is that I just didn't follow the context of your post clearly enough before jumping in to respond.

:-D tee-hee! I like your edit

 

[Jezzah]

This game is in desperate need of work on what it's got already without adding this "open pve" option. Realise the DDF frontier and you won't go wrong. No need to add any more superfluous features and gimmicks like "open pve" that would even further split the player base.

 

[Deadspin]

I'm on board with this, too.
At the same time I think they should continue to listen to their customers and remain open to evolving their vision as their understanding of their customer base matures. I certainly don't think that Open PvE should be added to the game just because I want it. I don't even know if I think they should add it just because around half of the community wants it. I do think that they should consider it, whether it would benefit their overall vision, and whether it would result in a more enjoyable game for everyone.

Honestly.. Unless they conduct a launcher poll, citing "half of anything" doesn't really amount to much. 1.4 million copies of the game sold. 20,000 players in Mobius, maybe 60-70k that really care enough to switch modes and that's still less than even 1/4 of the amount of people who bought into the game.

Funny thing is.. I don't think people can really be helped. I ran into a guy last night (assisting him in getting out of his newbwinder) who had no idea what private group and solo modes were for or how they worked. You can lead a horse to water..

 

[CMDR Dumbfries]

Sure, may as well have a dedicated PvE mode at this point. The game is already fractured into open, solo and private group.

 

[Jockey79]

Sure, may as well have a dedicated PvE at this point. The game is already fractured into open, solo and private group.

The game is not "fractured" at all.

It is one game, we just "choose" (in the case of Open Mode, the server chooses for us) who we see when we interact with it. Up to 32 people at a time.

 

[Silk]

NO.

N-O

En-Oh

 

[DHMeyer]

I'm not saying everyone should. I don't necessarily like trading, but I'm not asking for it to be stripped from the game. It takes all kinds to make a world feel alive. Every decent story needs good and evil. Instead of wanting a seperate mode, why not form a protection coalition that can escort traders. Add to the game. And I can confirm there are heroes in Open. Whatever twisted view of open that some people have on this thread is not what I've seen.

I totally support that. The question is: is there a coalition of players who are doing this in Open right now? If they could secure, say, LHS 2936 and LHS 6309, that would be great... Actually moved out from there already, how about some other system? You see what the problem is? Space is big. Even with a lot of players devoted to policing the systems, there is no chance to do it effectively throughout the inhabited space. Maybe capital systems for each major faction, or CG areas, but that won't be sufficient. Especially as a tool to provent griefing and not as a tool to convince people who prefer PVE to play in a PVP game. But I'm sure that as soon as such coalition exists and protects the space, excluding anarchy systems, there would be players willing to trade in such an environment.

 

[CMDR Dumbfries]

The game is not "fractured" at all.

It is one game, we just "choose" (in the case of Open Mode, the server chooses for us) who we see when we interact with it. Up to 32 people at a time.

How is the player base NOT fractured when there are three separate modes to choose from and you have thousands of people who choose to avoid open by playing solo and in private groups?

 

[Sapient6]

Honestly.. Unless they conduct a launcher poll, citing "half of anything" doesn't really amount to much. 1.4 million copies of the game sold. 20,000 players in Mobius, maybe 60-70k that really care enough to switch modes and that's still less than even 1/4 of the amount of people who bought into the game.

Funny thing is.. I don't think people can really be helped. I ran into a guy last night (assisting him in getting out of his newbwinder) who had no idea what private group and solo modes were for or how they worked. You can lead a horse to water..

Yeah, my post wasn't meant to endorse the assumption that the poll results reflect the entire community. Rather it was meant to say that even if the poll results represent the entire community, that's still not enough all by itself.

 

[askavir]

Never thought I'd say this, as I would love to see a galaxy full of visible people and I will always play open, but now I'm starting to think maybe having that Pve mode for the ones who want it would probably be for the best.

 

[Faded Glory]

How is the player base NOT fractured when there are three separate modes to choose from and you have thousands of people who choose to avoid open by playing solo and in private groups?

Then perhaps what you mean to say is that Open mode is fractured / broken... That's a view that is contested by quite a few who play in it.

However, if it is indeed fractured (and by that are you saying it is devoid of players?), then that simply means that more people are choosing to play in a different mode, and that is something the game very much allows.

 

[Belthize]

How is the player base NOT fractured when there are three separate modes to choose from and you have thousands of people who choose to avoid open by playing solo and in private groups?

Because that only effects netcode and the decision of what instance to put you in and how many people you see. In open it picks N random people, in private it picks up to N people on your friends list and in solo it picks zero people. But in every case the underlying game engine is exactly the same. There are no different rules, no different results as a function of action taken. This is an amazingly elegant solution to a very old problem of split user base.

What's being proposed seems incredibly trivial from a sentence point of view "just add PvE" but is in fact a significant change in the game engine and the game itself. For instance we'll all be able to bask in the 1000's of threads about PvE vs PvP balance if it ever happens and why ship X is only useful in PvP so get rid of it or new game feature Y is only useful in PvE so don't do it.

On an unrelated note the poll is meaningless for multiple reasons. Only a tiny fraction of people read the forum and of those that do a significant portion focus on areas of interest (ship design forums, PP forums etc). The only people who voted are ones who read the generic discussion section with any regularity and cared enough on reading the subject line to stop and vote. So it's not *necessarily* representative of the population as a whole though it could be with luck. More importantly though it's presented as a binary no cost option, PvE or no PvE.

If you want a proper poll then it needs to contain the cost (ie what they have to stop work on) and clarity as to what you will and won't get (ie what is PvE) warts and all. Luckily I kind of doubt FD is going to take any action based on this poll one way or another so it's kind of a moot point.

 

[Defector]

I totally support that. The question is: is there a coalition of players who are doing this in the Open right now? If they could secure, say, LHS 2936 and LHS 6309, that would be great... Actually moved out from there already, how about some other system? You see what the problem is? Space is big. Even with a lot of players devoted to policing the systems, there is no chance to do it effectively throughout the inhabited space. Maybe capital systems for each major faction, or CG areas, but that won't be sufficient. Especially as a tool to provent griefing and not as a tool to convince people who prefer PVE to play in a PVP game. But I'm sure that as soon as such coalition exists and protects the space, excluding anarchy systems, there would be players willing to trade in such an environment.

I think starting with the CG areas would be the best bang for your buck. But if the pirates know where the common trade lanes are, then it's easy enough for others to find out. I'd love to see more convoys like what the Hutton Truckers do sometimes. Strength in numbers and all that. Bring some escorts that can keep the pirates busy while the traders float on into the station.

The PVP people get their PVP, the PVE people get to make some trades, and the entire galaxy is richer for it. And in a very real way, the PVE people have made the PVP better. You get a much more interesting story than, "I went from A to B for 7 hours and absolutely nothing happened."

Problem is, people tend to take the path of least resistance and energy. It's easier to go into solo or group than it is to make something interesting. With a PVE mode, you'll never see another trader in open.

 

[CMDR Dumbfries]

Then perhaps what you mean to say is that Open mode is fractured / broken... That's a view that is contested by quite a few who play in it.

However, if it is indeed fractured (and by that are you saying it is devoid of players?), then that simply means that more people are choosing to play in a different mode, and that is something the game very much allows.

I know we all affect the BGS whether we play in open or solo. Without turning this into a open vs solo debate, I don't agree with how they went about trying to make a massively multiplayer space game and then added two modes where players can actively avoid the massively multiplayer part. That being said, what's done is done and there is no going back. There is a very large group of active players that want a PvE mode. Listen to your paying customers and give it to them.

 

[Wavey]

I know we all affect the BGS whether we play in open or solo. Without turning this into a open vs solo debate, I don't agree with how they went about trying to make a massively multiplayer space game and then added two modes where players can actively avoid the massively multiplayer part. That being said, what's done is done and there is no going back. There is a very large group of active players that want a PvE mode. Listen to your paying customers and give it to them.

Private Groups are massive multiplayer at least Mobius is anyway,20k members is massive to me ,see more players and get involved more than i ever have in open ,so i am not avoiding anything .They didnt add two modes ,they were there from the start of the game idea

 

[Faded Glory]

[snip]
I don't agree with how they went about trying to make a massively multiplayer space game and then added two modes where players can actively avoid the massively multiplayer part.

Just to point out that two modes weren't added, they were both, along with Open, in the game from the start.

As to the avoiding the massively multiplayer part, that tends to read as avoiding being shot at by other players (if I've read that wrong, apologies). Those players can and will still be shot at, only by NPCs, not players, and I suspect trying to force people into being shot at by other players if such gameplay doesn't appeal will do far less toward making Open a thriving community, and would likely deprive FD of income that they need to continue to develop the game.

 

[Lheim]

Anybody remember Wildstar? Hardcore MMO came out about a year back? Take a peek at this:

One of the areas we’ve been looking at is the disparity of players on the PvP servers versus the PvE servers. MMOs work best when there are lots of players around at all times, but that’s especially true of PvP servers where the open world contention between the factions drives much of the purpose of having a PvP server type at all. We’ve found that increasingly over time the majority of WildStar players prefer to play on PvE servers. This has resulted in a far less vibrant server community for PvP players—including a lack of guilds, unhealthy economies, and fewer open world PvP opportunities—and a less satisfying play experience overall.

Does anybody really need more evidence that PvE is strikingly popular in MMOs than UO's saga, WoW's population and server number imbalances, and now Wildstar's own frank admission that PvP is faltering in their game due to lack of numbers engaging in it? They're actually going to be merging PvP servers into the PvE servers and just providing a bribe.. incentive to engage in PvP.

 

[SnowyNI]

As always the cry is "Drive them out of PGs and into open! No pve for you's!" ..guess what, even if you were to totally remove group mode, guess were most if not all would go? Or should we remove solo too? But where would all the pvpers do their trading then? Opps!

 

[Mohrgan]

Anybody remember Wildstar? Hardcore MMO came out about a year back? Take a peek at this:



Does anybody really need more evidence that PvE is strikingly popular in MMOs than UO's saga, WoW's population and server number imbalances, and now Wildstar's own frank admission that PvP is faltering in their game due to lack of numbers engaging in it? They're actually going to be merging PvP servers into the PvE servers and just providing a bribe.. incentive to engage in PvP.

This pressure is why FD hasn't offered an official PvE option. The only carrot they have to offer the non-PvP inclined is player interaction. I've written this many times. In order to fill the open mode, they obfuscate what the Private Groups are and/or can be, or say 'Play alone". This effort is designed to bring the unwary/uneducated into open, and thus available to the PvP crowd.

 

[DHMeyer]

I think starting with the CG areas would be the best bang for your buck. But if the pirates know where the common trade lanes are, then it's easy enough for others to find out. I'd love to see more convoys like what the Hutton Truckers do sometimes. Strength in numbers and all that. Bring some escorts that can keep the pirates busy while the traders float on into the station.

The PVP people get their PVP, the PVE people get to make some trades, and the entire galaxy is richer for it. And in a very real way, the PVE people have made the PVP better. You get a much more interesting story than, "I went from A to B for 7 hours and absolutely nothing happened."

Problem is, people tend to take the path of least resistance and energy. It's easier to go into solo or group than it is to make something interesting. With a PVE mode, you'll never see another trader in open.

This type of multiplayer activities are very, very cool indeed. The problem is that there is a bit too much of full on PVP space to cover. So I think that concentrating it in some areas (CZ, RES, anarchy systems) would greatly enrich this type of cooperation between the players. If there is a good reason to go to an anarchy system, such as potential trading profit being significantly higher than a route in some civilised space, so traders are interested in risking a trip there, then there is also a good purpose for convoy activity and a lot of interesting PVP going there. Everyone wins, as you have noticed, but the problem is this is not really going to happen, unless PVP activity can be concentrated in some regions of the galaxy.
Most of traders are not going to risk open mode anyway. "Ain't nobody got time for this" being probably one of the most common reasons for going solo or joining a private group.