Is it just 'grinders' who feel the game lacks depth?

I'm always amazed that gamers want to be lead or told what to do with "content". Why can't people see that ED is a galactic (literally) sandbox where there are no "rules" or hand holding? Want to be a pirate? Go be one. Want to be a trader? Go be one. Want to be a military officer? Go be one. Want to be an explorer? Go be one. Etc. etc.

A lot of "content" is hand holding narrative for those that lack the intellectual ability to create their own. IMO.


Well, that's certainly not what I am looking for. I'm after more of a Middle Ground. We have the underlying "narrative" of the galaxy (as described by System States, Galnet stories etc), & players can *choose* the level to which they wish to immerse themselves in that narrative. So, if you want to fully immerse yourself into the narrative, then you can settle in a small group of systems to help <Faction Name> become the dominant power in that region, via the upgraded mission system. Or you could just casually help out <Faction Name> from time to time, as a sideline to your regular "Pirate/Smuggler/Trader" career.

Also, sadly, the military officer path still needs a lot of work before it is a truly viable option (though it is definitely on their "to do" list).
 
I've had tons of fun just flying randomly... friend of mine and I said 'Let's go to Barnard's Loop' saw some of the coolest sights on that trip, laughed as he and I went to Betelgeuse and promptly belly flopped on Betelgeuse 2. Then he and I started flying to Eagle Nebula, then we redirected to Lagoon Nebula. All and all, a good month last month. He and I have had adventures totally unrelated to the 'grind' some seem to fixate on, the world's a sandbox. Think like GTA... the biggest fun's totally unrelated to progression or missions, it's the experience you make for yourself.

Right now I'm actually sitting in Zeta Doradus, and flew for a half hour to it's neighbor Benoit. Was sad the engine doesn't shift system to system.

My favorite experiences in ED are those, the moments I've said "I wanna do something crazy" and then did it.

A few friends of mine and I are planning on seeing if we can get a group of Sidewinders to Sagittarius A*.

Elite's a game where grinding for a status symbol means you miss the journey and fun that can be had with it.

M17 Sector XI-B b16-1 (20160221-015359).png

Any game, the goal should be to 'have fun' how you do that should be your call... don't let some NPC on a job board dictate how you enjoy yourself.
 
I've had tons of fun just flying randomly... friend of mine and I said 'Let's go to Barnard's Loop' saw some of the coolest sights on that trip, laughed as he and I went to Betelgeuse and promptly belly flopped on Betelgeuse 2. Then he and I started flying to Eagle Nebula, then we redirected to Lagoon Nebula. All and all, a good month last month. He and I have had adventures totally unrelated to the 'grind' some seem to fixate on, the world's a sandbox. Think like GTA... the biggest fun's totally unrelated to progression or missions, it's the experience you make for yourself.

Right now I'm actually sitting in Zeta Doradus, and flew for a half hour to it's neighbor Benoit. Was sad the engine doesn't shift system to system.

My favorite experiences in ED are those, the moments I've said "I wanna do something crazy" and then did it.

A few friends of mine and I are planning on seeing if we can get a group of Sidewinders to Sagittarius A*.

Elite's a game where grinding for a status symbol means you miss the journey and fun that can be had with it.

View attachment 106921

Any game, the goal should be to 'have fun' how you do that should be your call... don't let some NPC on a job board dictate how you enjoy yourself.


Yep, very much the same. I do enjoy running around doing jobs for various factions....but on more than one occasion I have just planted my ship down on a planet I've recently discovered & just driven around for about an hour. So much FUN! That's not to say that I'm not looking forward to seeing more context for missions though ;).
 
Elite's a game where grinding for a status symbol means you miss the journey and fun that can be had with it.

So true. That being said, it's easy to fall into the grind pattern, especially if there's something you want (a specific ship or rank), the thing is to question whether you truly want it or are just working because you're used to "level ups". I was aiming at a Python or FDL then realised as long as I could kit it out as I needed, an Asp Explorer did all I need. Now I don't work for the money, I do the jobs that interest me at that time. It's a much better way to work - and explore.

I think the idea that Elite is shallow is absurd. After decades of gaming, it's no way shallow and I find it curious those who often say its dull are those who have farmed excess of a hundred hours on it. That's a lot for any game. Go back 10 years, no space game had this content as a sandbox, the sheer scope and diversity. It may not be for everyone, but within its class, within its mandate, it does a staggering job. Yes, we'd all love to see more nuances, but we don't start demanding every shop in GTA has a story. There are limits, and limits to push, pushing takes time. As it is, it's a great experience. When it gets dull, as all does, take a break or enjoy another game, but there is a lot to do, imo, just we spend so much time on it, even that range of content can get dull for some.
 
Assassination with depth: you're given a target, a location or contacts that could tell you were this target is. You need to track it down through various contacts (trustworthy or not), spend hours if not days getting used to that target's schedule, until you can seize the opportunity to kill it.
The reward mirrors the amount of work that was required to take it down. You might now have some sworn enemies that will track you to the end of the galaxy.

Assassination in Elite: you're given a target, and a location.
You get there and fly around in circles until it conveniently shows up or a NPC tells you about it, or find it in an USS like you'd hunt Pokémons. You kill the target, collect the reward and change some vague numbers in the BGS.

______

Exploration with depth: you want to travel to an unmapped system, to do so you first need to run parallax and gravitational based computations in order to even vaguely guess the hyperspace coordinates. Once there you go to various planets and retrieve various samples, map surfaces, look for that one asteroid that contains a real goldmine.
Once you get back to civilization those you sell the data to might decide to launch an expedition, and their enemies might hear of it and try to get in their way. (Hey wait, isn't that basically the DDA?)
Reaching Sg A* requires months to years of works for a hundred of coordinated players. (Hey wait, wasn't that what the FGE was about?)

Exploration in Elite: Jump! Honk!
Sg A* reached within 4 days of Gamma.

I could go on for a while.
 
Assassination with depth: you're given a target, a location or contacts that could tell you were this target is. You need to track it down through various contacts (trustworthy or not), spend hours if not days getting used to that target's schedule, until you can seize the opportunity to kill it.
The reward mirrors the amount of work that was required to take it down. You might now have some sworn enemies that will track you to the end of the galaxy.

So much rep for this point, Commander. Again, this is why I'm feeling so confident in regards to 2.1.....as it sounds like this is the direction that missions are going to be heading.
 

El Dragoon!

Banned
Wall of text alert!

Almost every day there’s a new post decrying some game feature, pointing out how bugged or just plain unfair it is, usually accompanied with demands for better game mechanisms to achieve whatever the feature does. It doesn’t take long for the thread to devolve into derogatory remarks, White Knight and Fanboi are particular favourites of mine*, sent at anyone daring to challenge how bugged or unfair the feature is. It's good fun, rough and tumble forum handbags, which is why we’re all here, right?

What I don’t understand is the accusation that these features are part of a wider issue, leading to a game experience that’s ocean wide and puddle deep. There is no ‘depth’ to the game, apparently. It’s just a series of dull grinds, with badly thought out rationales for the various features.

The reason I don’t understand is that the supporters of the OP, sometimes the OP themselves, often state that they’ve been gaming the game- stacking slave trading missions by switching game modes, taking on endless charity missions and so forth. Which I totally agree sounds very dull, even tedious.

My experience has been a wee bit different. I like to try out the various options available to us and I’m fascinated by their effects. One of the very first things I did in game was (unintentionally) flip an unalligned system. I then put up a Quixotic defence of it against the Kumo Crew hordes. By the time it flipped right back I was so unpopular with the cut-throat NPCs I had to relocate to some place a little safer. It was an absolute blast! True, I could have played it entirely solo, I hardly saw another commander the whole time my little personal crusade was underway. And it would have been more fun with friends. But even so, it was astounding to find that I could have a real effect on the system I chose. A living, breathing galaxy, just as advertised. :cool:

Roll forward a couple of years and I’m playing the BGS again, with the added bonus of having friends this time around, and human opponents (although the SDC deny defending their turf, someone is! [haha]). It’s a tiny part of the wider game, but there are so many disparate elements, so many factors interacting, that it’s almost a stand alone game. It seems that there are layers of game play beneath the pretty background!

Those layers won’t get you rank or access to end game ships, though. It strikes me that using the various features in a ‘realistic’ manner adds spice to the game and increases the sense of immersion. If you pick up on charity missions on a case by case basis, for instance, only taking up causes you sympathise with and that won’t negatively impact on whatever you’re trying to achieve when the mission is offered, you’ll eventually achieve a well earned reputation. With that will come rank and privilege- including the right to buy those shiny end game ships. It feels like a natural consequence of your in game actions, rather than a clumsy exploit that those dummies in Cambridge haven’t got around to fixing yet.

In this sandbox game, setting our own objectives, playing an extremely powerful character, everything we do has an effect. Every game career has an impact on the human occupied galaxy, there’s more going on than usually meets the eye. Now you can shrug and feel that a few percentile points on a system summary means nothing to you. You want a ginagerous ship and you want more pew-pew, or safer trading. The best and quickest way to do that is to game the game, take the fullest advantage of every grind feature and race up the ranks, accumulate a mountain of wealth and strut about in your brand new, end game ship.
Well, that’s fair enough, you can do that and I wish you the best of luck. But I don’t think it’s particularly fair to slag nine hells out of the game for lacking ‘depth’ when your own actions have deliberately destroyed any sense of immersion you may have otherwise had. You’re the one taking away the ambiance and character the developers have tried to incorporate into your experience.

Is it just me who thinks you get out of the game experience what you put in? If you want to play a role, or explore game mechanics, or enjoy co-operative endeavours with like minded players, the game has the tools to allow you to do that. But at the same time, if all you want is in game achievements, the quickest and easiest ways to get them tend to make them feel less like achievement and more like make work. :D


* Because I am a Fanboi, with a tendancy to White Knight! ;)

DO yo honestly think grinders like to grind? , the fact they grind in the first place is evidence of lack of depth, doing the same thing over and over just for money isnt game play, thats just a RL job sim, ild love to know why i was hired to kill some random npc, i want to know why this npc has such a high bounty and if it would be right to kill him,
 
Started my 2nd account 2 weeks ago, having a blast playing a surface scavenger + explorer. Different experience to my first account which was mor PvE combat + BGS.

There is plenty to do in the game up until the end game. MY first character has 3 or 4 ships (cannot remember) and 600Mcr. I maxed out at the Python size of ship , as I did not want to give up outposts. Objective wise the character could go to an Anaconda or one of the other big ships. I'm taking a break from the BGS - having done 9 months of it. The most natural next step for the character to do something with meaning for the end game is to join a player group. Alas it is just not me, I have not got the discipline! So I think he is gonna get reset in 2.1.

Joining a player group, whether PvE or PvP is probably not for everyone but seems like the end game for me. This could be why people such as myself reach a point then go - ah what next? Then I remebered how much fun the journey was.


Simon
 
what we have at the moment is a game rich in game mechanics, but not content. Not sure we will "get the depth" with the upcoming patches, but it is a step in the right direction

mmmm? where are those rich mechanics? what you do with the ship is really poor actualy, unskillful and sad. Or are you talking about the BGS?
 
mmmm? where are those rich mechanics? what you do with the ship is really poor actualy, unskillful and sad. Or are you talking about the BGS?

rich *in* game mechanics, i.e. a lot of stuff that you *can* do, just no interaction between them, and no real reason (risk/reward/narrative/<insert your own personal motivation here>) to do them

the BGS is exactly that - background. For all the impact it has on the game, it might as well be a matte painting sitting at the back of a theatre stage, nice to look at, adds a bit of colour, but has minimal (at best) interaction with any player. I'm not suggesting that I should be able to conquer the galaxy single-handed, but if I am going to do a bunch of missions/gain rep/increase elite ranking/etc - there should be some sort of change, even if it is just down to how different governments, npcs, markets, stations etc interact with me - hence the reason I hope the upcoming npc and mission changes will be a step in the right direciton
 
Still hilarious, there is no endgame here. The game is what you make it. All the grinders getting the biggest ships that can't fly combat? to each his own I GUESS. I fly combat, rear firing turrets and a hull full of scb's is not appealing to me. Hopefully when the Thargoids appear, the big ships can crap their panties when the 5000 ton enemy ships show up. We might need the big ships then.
 
rich *in* game mechanics, i.e. a lot of stuff that you *can* do, just no interaction between them, and no real reason (risk/reward/narrative/<insert your own personal motivation here>) to do them

the BGS is exactly that - background. For all the impact it has on the game, it might as well be a matte painting sitting at the back of a theatre stage, nice to look at, adds a bit of colour, but has minimal (at best) interaction with any player. I'm not suggesting that I should be able to conquer the galaxy single-handed, but if I am going to do a bunch of missions/gain rep/increase elite ranking/etc - there should be some sort of change, even if it is just down to how different governments, npcs, markets, stations etc interact with me - hence the reason I hope the upcoming npc and mission changes will be a step in the right direciton


Which is exactly why 2.1 is such a *huge* update.....because it's finally starting to link all those things together. The system state will be much more clear to players, missions will be driven by the system state (context), mission givers will have faces, & you'll be getting a clearer indication of what impact your missions will have on the system state....not to mention consequences.
 
rich *in* game mechanics, i.e. a lot of stuff that you *can* do, just no interaction between them, and no real reason (risk/reward/narrative/<insert your own personal motivation here>) to do them

A lot of things to do... I dont see a lot sorry. And what I see is really stupid gameplay design, it fails in any way.

Anyone can design gameplay a lot more complex and enjoyable but I don't know why FD can't.
 
A lot of things to do... I dont see a lot sorry. And what I see is really stupid gameplay design, it fails in any way.

Anyone can design gameplay a lot more complex and enjoyable but I don't know why FD can't.

So why are you even here? You clearly hate the game, yet you're constantly online talking about it. If I were in the exact same position as you, I'd not be wasting my time.
 
Then why are you still here? Same goes for Ignition.

Because is way more fun than playing the game.

I cared for this game and bought the Premium Beta and I still have some little hope this game will be the best game in history. The premise of the game was EPIC but it turned out to be a real bad game.

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So why are you even here? You clearly hate the game, yet you're constantly online talking about it. If I were in the exact same position as you, I'd not be wasting my time.

Why are you so concerned about me? Why are you defending the game instead of playing it? Don't answer I don't want to know.
 
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