(info) First bonus for playing in OPEN under consideration for PP

[Mohrgan]

Well as I said in the post you replied to, this change results in a wider range of gameplay that's optional. Which to me seems a clear benefit.

You can put it in terms that try to frame the motivation as something you think is bad but if it results in more interesting gameplay then who gives a monkey's.

I don;t see a direct path from increasing influence payouts in open for PP to more interesting game play. It's a wish, but not a surety. Suggest some wider range of game play you expect to see developed from an influence modifier for those that play in open. Do you expect a bunch of Solo/Group players to suddenly play in open for such a marginal bonus? I don;t. I argue against this notion more on principle than on it's results.

Once FD are seen to officially deem open worthy of some kind of bonus, the precedent and the demand will be there instantly. You can see this already in this thread. There is no reason to have to suggest this as a slippery slope issue, when players are already sliding down it in glee.

 

[Alexander the Grape]

I agree that is an advantage. However it's not the the only advantage. As I stated further up, Solo has disadvantages as well. Each mode has their pros and cons. Also as you said before, it's a player v player mechanic, not a PvP mechanic. Elite: Dangerous is not 'Highlander' and there is no PP scoreboard that I'm aware of, hence my dismissal of considering Elite: Dangerous a competitive game.

Are you trolling? You are aware of what PvP stands for right?

PP literally takes the form of a scoreboard, powers are ranked based on a % score

 

[GluttonyFang]

I completely agree, NPC's are a joke! That's why I could argue Solo is at a disadvantage because my only form of help is NPC's. You've got real live players to wing-up with!

Yea, only to encounter more live players.

I don't know if you are involved in PP, but playing in solo makes pulling targets (npc) over for undermining and package delivering so much easier. You don't ever have to worry about players interrupting you. And there will never be an actual need for wings.

 

[Privata]

uh-huh, keep telling yourself that. Maybe you'll make the Elite: Dangerous Pro PP League next year!

Its not Esports or anything like that but it is an part of the gameplay that can change the universe and effects every player. so it would make sens to make powerplay have high value in open because currently if you want to stop a faction from invading or progresing you cant actualy do it if they are hiding in solo.

And there is another way of looking at it : take open as ''hard'' mode so for your increase in risk you gain a bonus.

Remeber the blockade on hudson dock? I felt that it was the blockaders who were the victims in this situation as they were playing the game as braben had talked about making a real living universe come to life and then many players switched to solo mode making there effort pointless and therefore making that only AIs and ''grind'' can change the universe... maybe a system were if a player starts a blockade NPC blockade spawns as well but that would be hard to do.

 

[Asp Explorer]

And let me guess, this violates some sort of privacy clause... right?

It violates pretty much everything.

 

[GluttonyFang]

It violates pretty much everything.

Gawd =-=...

Any possibility to not cause violation alert everywhere?

 

[Asp Explorer]

Gawd =-=...

Any possibility to not cause violation alert everywhere?

I've seen entire enterprise networks taken offline for less.

 

[Jypson]

Are you trolling? You are aware of what PvP stands for right?

PP literally takes the form of a scoreboard, powers are ranked based on a % score

No, I'm not trolling, I'm responding to Kristov's definition that he made. Check out his post for context.

As for the PP scoreboard, I guess you got me there. They do indeed list the Power by rank, I forgot about that since I don't engage in PP, my bad, there is indeed a PP Power Scoreboard. o7

 

[Mohrgan]

Are you trolling? You are aware of what PvP stands for right?

PP literally takes the form of a scoreboard, powers are ranked based on a % score

All based entirely on PvE mechanisms. The idea that PP is some PvP based feature completely ignores the actual activities a player has to accomplish to be successful. There is exactly no direct connection between PP and PvP. The tenuous link often mentioned, stopping players from completing the direct activities, is a construct created by players who favor open. I challenge anyone to point out one direct impact PvP has on PP game play.

 

[Alexander the Grape]

All based entirely on PvE mechanisms. The idea that PP is some PvP based feature completely ignores the actual activities a player has to accomplish to be successful. There is exactly no direct connection between PP and PvP. The tenuous link often mentioned, stopping players from completing the direct activities, is a construct created by players who favor open. I challenge anyone to point out one direct impact PvP has on PP game play.

I repeat, do you know what PvP means?

 

[Privata]

No, I'm not trolling, I'm responding to Kristov's definition that he made. Check out his post for context.

As for the PP scoreboard, I guess you got me there. They do indeed list the Power by rank, I forgot about that since I don't engage in PP, my bad, there is indeed a PP Power Scoreboard. o7

Powerplay is special because if no one does it does not progress , you can hunt AIs but the AI is so brain dead its impossible to loose to them

 

[GluttonyFang]

I've seen entire enterprise networks taken offline for less.

Facepalm*

Welp, you're the expert on the subject... I feel hopeless now >_>

 

[Kristov]

Quite simply - FD can use their existing watchdog.exe to monitor connection status and their launcher client to maintain a bit-torrent type mesh between all current players - sending null files to every player. If the game exe is closed, the launcher will maintain the torrent, showing that the game was shut down. Timings of the null traffic will show wether the 15 second timer was adhered to or not. The null traffic will also indicate if someone got creative with firewalls. Watchdog will record if the local adapter state changes (cable pull), or the default gateway became unavailable (router unplug). That would be confirmed by the null torrent traffic ending. If the machine is still running, watchdog would record when local adapter state changes (cable plugged back in), or when the default gateway is available again (router rebooted). Watchdog would also monitor timings for cable length for pesky cable-laggers.

Hard power down would obviously render this useless.

Yep, not exactly legal either, sucks doesn't it?

I agree that is an advantage. However it's not the the only advantage. As I stated further up, Solo has disadvantages as well. Each mode has their pros and cons. Also as you said before, it's a player v player mechanic, not a PvP mechanic. Elite: Dangerous is not 'Highlander' and there is no PP scoreboard that I'm aware of, hence my dismissal of considering Elite: Dangerous a competitive game.

There is actually a PP scoreboard, that's kind of the point of it, and there's benefits associated with being pledged to one of the top 3 PP factions as well. And Solo and Group BOTH have the same advantages over Open, the lack of player interaction which can stop your PP actions directly. Hence Sandro proposing this option. And some people take PP quite seriously, MORE of us would if it wasn't so messed up by the modes.

Me, I'd rather they just remove PP from anything but Open, as it's the only player vs player mechanic in the entire damn game, put it in the only mode where player vs player is the default, since most of the players in the other 2 modes are there specifically to avoid dealing with other players, no reason for them to be using the only player vs player game mechanic in the first place, they opted out of that.

 

[GluttonyFang]

All based entirely on PvE mechanisms. The idea that PP is some PvP based feature completely ignores the actual activities a player has to accomplish to be successful.

But this success is complete measured through comparison with other players' effort, which is PvP.

There is exactly no direct connection between PP and PvP. The tenuous link often mentioned, stopping players from completing the direct activities, is a construct created by players who favor open. I challenge anyone to point out one direct impact PvP has on PP game play.

PvP is the category PP falls under, there's just no way to use sophistry to twist around that.

 

[Mohrgan]

I repeat, do you know what PvP means?

Player V. Player. Commonly used to describe when one PC directly fights with another PC. When you complete PP activities you are satisfying the demand of an NPC by doing PvE activities. Just because other players care about the end results doesn't magically turn this into PvP.

 

[Jypson]

Yea, only to encounter more live players.

I don't know if you are involved in PP, but playing in solo makes pulling targets (npc) over for undermining and package delivering so much easier. You don't ever have to worry about players interrupting you. And there will never be an actual need for wings.

Indeed, as I said, there are pros and cons to each mode.

Its not Esports or anything like that but it is an part of the gameplay that can change the universe and effects every player. so it would make sens to make powerplay have high value in open because currently if you want to stop a faction from invading or progresing you cant actualy do it if they are hiding in solo.

And there is another way of looking at it : take open as ''hard'' mode so for your increase in risk you gain a bonus.

Remeber the blockade on hudson dock? I felt that it was the blockaders who were the victims in this situation as they were playing the game as braben had talked about making a real living universe come to life and then many players switched to solo mode making there effort pointless and therefore making that only AIs and ''grind'' can change the universe... maybe a system were if a player starts a blockade NPC blockade spawns as well but that would be hard to do.

I respect your opinion that you think Open is hard mode for PP. It's my opinion that each mode has its own pros and cons. If we start getting rid of cons in one mode, maybe we should get rid of cons in the other?

 

[Zylark]

Simple solution: If you want to have an effect on the BGS or PP, play in open. If not, play safe in solo or private group and make all the coin you want in perfect safety.

Then all should be happy. We who want a living galaxy get to influence it by means of interacting with others in a direct way - and the emergent gameplay that follows. Those who just want to stroll around and make some coin without danger can do so too. As if in offline mode. Without having an effect on the BGS or PP mechanics.

Win - win yes?

Or is it so that Solo and group players want their unfair advantage?

 

[GluttonyFang]

Indeed, as I said, there are pros and cons to each mode.

But under the competitive scope and on the subject of PP, there's more pro for Solo/Private than Open, hence why they are the rational choice to be competitive, which betrays any sort of mode equality to begin with.

 

[Privata]

Quite simply - FD can use their existing watchdog.exe to monitor connection status and their launcher client to maintain a bit-torrent type mesh between all current players - sending null files to every player. If the game exe is closed, the launcher will maintain the torrent, showing that the game was shut down. Timings of the null traffic will show wether the 15 second timer was adhered to or not. The null traffic will also indicate if someone got creative with firewalls. Watchdog will record if the local adapter state changes (cable pull), or the default gateway became unavailable (router unplug). That would be confirmed by the null torrent traffic ending. If the machine is still running, watchdog would record when local adapter state changes (cable plugged back in), or when the default gateway is available again (router rebooted). Watchdog would also monitor timings for cable length for pesky cable-laggers.

Hard power down would obviously render this useless.

It's also a hugely nasty, wasteful, lagging and illegal way of doing anything - but it is possible.

Steam does it , Uplay does it , Origin does it and many , many online games do it as well.
If it was against the law FD would be in trouble and if you do think it is of concern then report them.
In fact most games moniter what we do to an extent and steams in app web browser can see what sites.

There was allso the thing were steam could see what games or aplications you had on your PC (side effect of the hardware scan) and origin had a thing were it looked at your steam folder

 

[GluttonyFang]

Player V. Player. Commonly used to describe when one PC directly fights with another PC. When you complete PP activities you are satisfying the demand of an NPC by doing PvE activities. Just because other players care about the end results doesn't magically turn this into PvP.

Then this makes you a 5cer .-. An unintentional 5cer

Which is something Sandro wants to fix to begin with in his proposal, and I really hope you read his post in entirety.