Should there be an 'Open' Player Vs Environment Option on the Login Screen

[Phrygian]

I'd rather FD spent their time fixing other gameplay issues than implementing this. It's been mentioned multiple times, but making system security actually mean something would be a start. I mean, if I'm going on a rampage in my home system trying to disrupt the controlling faction, racking up a tidy bounty, then when I see a security Anaconda in SuperCruise I expect it to be gunning for me. Rather, at the moment, they just bimble around, presumably eating donuts.

I think I saw somebody also mention that insurance costs should increase for criminals as well.

I guess, what I'm saying is, make murder in PVP far more costly and risky; tweak the system so it is far more punishing for griefers. The upshot is that the changes would make it more immersive for everybody, both open, solo and groups.

 

[Davadin]

I keep hearing about this "Mobius" thing over and over again.... what is it?? (serious)

Also about being jumped... I've been playing over a month, never got jumped by real player. Real commanders are so freakin rare to bump in the wilds anyway. What's the problem, really?

I think the current options are good for newbies. Open = anything goes. Private = just friends. Solo = just PvE.

 

[jabokai]

I keep hearing about this "Mobius" thing over and over again.... what is it?? (serious)

Mobius is a large private group (>20,000 players) that play PvE through choice, seeing as there's no mechanic to ensure PvE only. SAdly though, the player limit has hit a technical cap on player groups and they've had to split it in two.

 

[DHMeyer]

I keep hearing about this "Mobius" thing over and over again.... what is it?? (serious)

Also about being jumped... I've been playing over a month, never got jumped by real player. Real commanders are so freakin rare to bump in the wilds anyway. What's the problem, really?

I think the current options are good for newbies. Open = anything goes. Private = just friends. Solo = just PvE.

The problem you are asking about is that at the moment Private Group option, apart from being used to play with a few friends, is being used as PVE group for more than 20k players (and growing), not mentioning other PVE groups of various population. Frontier does have the means to make such a group "public" (as current Open or Arena are) or organising another public group, but since non-PVP is a honour based agreement between the players in Private Groups and not every player knows the meaning of honour, PVP in such a Public Group would have to be limited (or cancelled) through the means of the game mechanics. So this thread is suggesting to do something like this.

A few points NielF I would like to address

Firstly to suggest a PVE only mode is a 'safer' option is a misnomer, if (as SJA jas mentioned in another thread) indeed the AI improvements expected in 2.1 come to fruition, then a PVE mode would be no less 'safe' than the current OPEN mode of play... And on that aspect, the current OPEN mode of play is not really any 'safer' than SOLO or GROUP apart from the 'startfing' systems where apparently it's grieferville...

To suggest otherwise comes across (to me at least) as some PVP arrogance honestly... suggesting somehow that group or solo is easier than the current open mode tells me there are serious perception problems (as well as other problems) with the current open mode of play...

Over 1,000 forum members voted on the poll, not an insignificant number of the total forum members is it really? Yes the forum poll results are not completely representative percentage wise of the total player base because for that to occur a forced player poll on the launcher would be needed and that in itself could have skewed votes due to some people not liking to be 'forced' to vote on something.

I've seen similar arguments when it comes to other multiplayer games. That somehow PVP is a "higher level" of gaming thing, that it requires more skill. The thing is that in the games I've seen so far and where I did partake in PVP gameplay I didn't notice that it somehow required a different skill set or some special talent. The pace is different, yes, fighting other players tends to be more action packed, more random, but it doesn't require some mystical superpowers. I do agree it does look arrogant to claim otherwise.

This discussion has also been 'open' to any suggestion for an important alternative, but so far no one has come forward with one, I know you are pushing for more PVP style missions in open play and I commend you for that and actually think some aspects of that idea have very good merit, how good an implementation could be coded for it I must confess I am unsure because that is nor my forte'


More to the point of my OP in this thread (and please consider this) is that there are a percentage of players that want zero PVP for equally valid and various reasons, for me personally, I would probably not even use a PVE only mode as I enjoy the current 'risk' in OPEN, but I can, not only empathise but comepletely accept and understand the various reasons why different people would prefer an OPEN PVE only mode...

I have never hidden this 'fact' this is not about my own preference for playing the game...

The alternative is to change the rules for current Open. To me it would be an acceptable one, but I also can understand that having a choice is always a healthy thing. And just as I am supporting PVE players having some space of their own, so they can simply enjoy the game without the elements that ruins it for them, I am also supporting PVP players having a place where full-on PVP throughout the galaxy exists. I am also supporting this sort of a choice for myself, because I can see myself playing both modes, depending on what I want to focus on in any given moment.

 

[Sapient6]

Wouldn't it be more interesting if rather than ducking to a "safer" option, if you instead actually had to weigh the situation up, and worse case decide, looks too dangerous, I'll just leave...

For me? No, it wouldn't, because I will never choose to be involved in any PvP, ever. So the decision would always be the same: nope. I don't know why you think that would be interesting to someone who wants no PvP, not ever, under any circumstances at all, for any reason.

 

[PiLhEaD]

Why is this thread still going?

Some players like to play on their own. Some like to play with others, and some like to play against others.

ED should cater for all.

It's just good business and nothing personal. Get over it.

 

[NeilF]

Why is this thread still going?

Some players like to play on their own. Some like to play with others, and some like to play against others.

ED should cater for all.

It's just good business and nothing personal. Get over it.

I understand that point of view... The issue is the moment you cut the game so completely in two, with a huge lump of CMDRs hidden and in effect unaccountable to the rest of the CMDRs in the game, you have mechanics that are seriously handicapped.

Consider the premise of some the Powerplay tasks, where the idea it to pit one Power against another, and potentially some CMDRs against others. Well it gets tricky when some, but the choice of a game mode, become not only invisible, but actually even more effective!

IMHO, the platinum solution is that the game should only have OPEN, but should allow players to clearly pick and choose what activities they want to participate in, including PvP activities. But they should not be able to hide from them. The silver solution would be allow to SOLO to continue, but where stats/totals are being kept (eg: to dictate PP outcome) they are split into OPEN and non-OPEN totals (eg: 60/40) such that CMDRs deciding not to play in OPEN cannot dictate outcomes etc...


FD will clearly never get rid of SOLO and GROUP, so my hope is the "Silver Solution" where they make OPEN more appealing and regimented such that PvP is easier to find for those interested, and easier to not engage in for those who are not. And as I previously said, where totals/results are being amassed, they are done so account for the fact the are accrued in OPEN and non-OPEN, and apportioned quite openly with the effect people can see OPEN is probably at least as worthy, if not so more, in dictating results. It should not be SOLO as it is now!

 

[DHMeyer]

I understand that point of view... The issue is the moment you cut the game so completely in two, with a huge lump of CMDRs hidden and in effect unaccountable to the rest of the CMDRs in the game, you have mechanics that are seriously handicapped.

Consider the premise of some the Powerplay tasks, where the idea it to pit one Power against another, and potentially some CMDRs against others. Well it gets tricky when some, but the choice of a game mode, become not only invisible, but actually even more effective!

IMHO, the platinum solution is that the game should only have OPEN, but should allow players to clearly pick and choose what activities they want to participate in, including PvP activities. But they should not be able to hide from them. The silver solution would be allow to SOLO to continue, but where stats/totals are being kept (eg: to dictate PP outcome) they are split into OPEN and non-OPEN totals (eg: 60/40) such that CMDRs deciding not to play in OPEN cannot dictate outcomes etc...


FD will clearly never get rid of SOLO and GROUP, so my hope is the "Silver Solution" where they make OPEN more appealing and regimented such that PvP is easier to find for those interested, and easier to not engage in for those who are not. And as I previously said, where totals/results are being amassed, they are done so account for the fact the are accrued in OPEN and non-OPEN, and apportioned quite openly with the effect people can see OPEN is probably at least as worthy, if not so more, in dictating results. It should not be SOLO as it is now!

If players in PG and Solo get more effective at PP, maybe that's the way FD intended PP to be played. Who said that Open is the most important mode for Frontier or the one they would like to become the most important? Elite games were always single player, as this one was supposed to be, so perhaps they thought about Open in terms of additional option to Solo, not the other way around? It offers rather basic features for a multiplayer game and not much thought went into the ways for players to interact with each other, so maybe it was never meant to become the main focus of Frontier efforts, but simply one of the available options? They seem to put equal importance to all modes of gameplay and seem to see them all as valid ways to play.

Frontier has opened this can of worms the day they decided not to create this as a single player game. Had they created Elite as a single player game, perhaps with decently planned and executed private groups for people to play with a few friends and didn't create the Open whatsoever, we would have never had to see threads like this nor would we see any sort of conflict between PVP and PVE players. Difficult to say what their intention was, because the way it is now, Open is the mode that is the furthest from being complete of the ones available. If they want Elite to be a fully blown multiplayer game in Open, they should actually remove Open and switch it back when it is ready to be a fully blown multiplayer game.

 

[NeilF]

If players in PG and Solo get more effective at PP, maybe that's the way FD intended PP to be played. Who said that Open is the most important mode for Frontier or the one they would like to become the most important?

I'd suggest a lot of what is going on Elite is not really as intended, but simply where we've currently got to...

If you consider a Powerplay task, it is invariably easier in SOLO than POWER (at least at the moment) as NPCs tend to not be as challenging as CMDRs. As such, if a group of you are out to achieve a goal, why not choose the safer and more effective method of doing it in SOLO rather than OPEN then? The game is actively rewarding individuals to take the SOLO path. I'd suggest this is counter productive! At the very least this issue needs to be addressed in the way totals/outcomes are measured but SOLO and OPEN being totaled individually. And better still, OPEN simply being made more appealing to CMDRs so SOLO isn't a sanctuary from other players, but instead OPEN is a place to enjoy playing with other players (if/when you wish to).

Now as regards, "Who said that Open is the most important mode for Frontier or the one they would like to become the most important?" No one... But I'd suggest if we want any sort of truly emergent interesting mechanics and cause & effect gameplay in the ED universe, OPEN is the place it will most likely sprout and flourish. So penalising players for playing in OPEN (compared to SOLO) isn't a good move IMHO.

 

[DHMeyer]

I'd suggest a lot of what is going on Elite is not really as intended, but simply where we've currently got to...

If you consider a Powerplay task, it is invariably easier in SOLO than POWER (at least at the moment) as NPCs tend to not be as challenging as CMDRs. As such, if a group of you are out to achieve a goal, why not choose the safer and more effective method of doing it in SOLO rather than OPEN then? The game is actively rewarding individuals to take the SOLO path. I'd suggest this is counter productive! At the very least this issue needs to be addressed in the way totals/outcomes are measured but SOLO and OPEN being totaled individually. And better still, OPEN simply being made more appealing to CMDRs so SOLO isn't a sanctuary from other players, but instead OPEN is a place to enjoy playing with other players (if/when you wish to).

Now as regards, "Who said that Open is the most important mode for Frontier or the one they would like to become the most important?" No one... But I'd suggest if we want any sort of truly emergent interesting mechanics and cause & effect gameplay in the ED universe, OPEN is the place it will most likely sprout and flourish. So penalising players for playing in OPEN (compared to SOLO) isn't a good move IMHO.

To be honest, I don't know which possibility is worse. One that current systems do not work as intended or one that they work as intended. Luckily, whichever is the case, many things work all right and the game is OK in general. We also know there is some new content coming, maybe step by step issues get addressed. Time will show.

As for the game not rewarding players who chose to play it in Open (or any other multiplayer mode actually)... Its multiplayer functionality is very basic and extremely primitive. You can shoot at other players or not shoot at them and that is basically it. You can form a wing, which differs very little from flying without a wing (yes, I know the differences and in my opinion they are negligible). There are no other means of cooperation between players (built in the game itself) and combat between the players is far from being meaningful. These are all skirmishes, with very little attention being put into strategy, logistics, long term planning etc.
That's why I think that either Frontier is more Solo focused or they do not quite know what form their multiplayer modes should take yet. Or maybe they know, but it awaits being implemented.
I don't think that adding bonuses to individual players (like more influence on PP element of the game) is something that would convince people to play in Open more often. I think the way of convincing more players to go into multiplayer modes is adding more options for groups of players to cooperate and share goals. Within the game itself, through the game mechanics, not through the external forums, player associations, word of mouth etc. In other words: to allow group of players to build something together in game, something a single player is not able to achieve on their own.

I agree that Open is the mode that can possibly be where the most fun is, because for many people (including me) it's more interesting to play with other humans. It's just Frontier needs to think about giving players a bit more than wings and voice communication. That is not enough.

As I stated previously, personally I wouldn't mind them introducing many changes to Open, such as, what many suggested, secure and insecure zones etc. But on the other hand, there are also people who enjoy Open with full on PVP and I don't see why they shouldn't be able to do so. Hence I'd support Open PVE as a separate mode. Since we know we are going to have several modes of play, all of them valid, all of them happening in the same galaxy and having influence on it, that sort of solution would be giving players more options to choose from. The issue is similar to every other issue with Elite: give people something to do, in case of the multiplayer, together with other players.

 

[excalibus]

I'd suggest a lot of what is going on Elite is not really as intended, but simply where we've currently got to...

If you consider a Powerplay task, it is invariably easier in SOLO than POWER (at least at the moment) as NPCs tend to not be as challenging as CMDRs. As such, if a group of you are out to achieve a goal, why not choose the safer and more effective method of doing it in SOLO rather than OPEN then? The game is actively rewarding individuals to take the SOLO path. I'd suggest this is counter productive! At the very least this issue needs to be addressed in the way totals/outcomes are measured but SOLO and OPEN being totaled individually. And better still, OPEN simply being made more appealing to CMDRs so SOLO isn't a sanctuary from other players, but instead OPEN is a place to enjoy playing with other players (if/when you wish to).

Now as regards, "Who said that Open is the most important mode for Frontier or the one they would like to become the most important?" No one... But I'd suggest if we want any sort of truly emergent interesting mechanics and cause & effect gameplay in the ED universe, OPEN is the place it will most likely sprout and flourish. So penalising players for playing in OPEN (compared to SOLO) isn't a good move IMHO.

I personally thing the 'view' that playing in OPEN is less efficient (outside of CG's) than playing in PG or SOLO is another misnomer. It's a perception of things because you 'cannot see' the other commanders who may be working against you... Ultimately you may only ever see a small fraction of the commanders working against you in a PP system because of the way the implemented multiplayer instancing works.

As an approx. most you might see 31 other commanders in the instance, not all of them working against you of course, so I would completely disagree that playing in the other modes is more 'efficient' or less risk or what not, Community goals however I do view differently as they are designed to be putting a lot of commanders in one locale and then it can indeed be more efficient and less risk doing those events in SOLO or PG.

I seriously doubt there will be any 'tangible in game rewards' for playing in open, many have asked for it, just like many have asked for the BGS to be split etc, and FDev have maintained all along that the BGS (something which PP is also a part of) will be equal across all platforms and modes of play.

Remember with PP even XBOX players can participate in and you will never see them, so again requests for splitting the BGS to be affected differently by open / solo / groups is something that is very very unlikely to occur and is how the system is designed to work.

I can (and do) understand the frustration of some players who love PVP and get right into their powerplay and want to 'engage' those opposing their powers, not always being able to do so due to the mechanics implemented, I think most of those mechanics are here to stay and so are the modes...

Yes emmergent gameplay can happen in open, it can also happen in groups, and whats to say emmergent gameplay 'cannot' happen in a PVE multiplayer mode?

 

[NeilF]

I personally thing the 'view' that playing in OPEN is less efficient (outside of CG's) than playing in PG or SOLO is another misnomer. It's a perception of things because you 'cannot see' the other commanders who may be working against you... Ultimately you may only ever see a small fraction of the commanders working against you in a PP system because of the way the implemented multiplayer instancing works.

As an approx. most you might see 31 other commanders in the instance, not all of them working against you of course, so I would completely disagree that playing in the other modes is more 'efficient' or less risk or what not, Community goals however I do view differently as they are designed to be putting a lot of commanders in one locale and then it can indeed be more efficient and less risk doing those events in SOLO or PG.

I seriously doubt there will be any 'tangible in game rewards' for playing in open, many have asked for it, just like many have asked for the BGS to be split etc, and FDev have maintained all along that the BGS (something which PP is also a part of) will be equal across all platforms and modes of play.

Remember with PP even XBOX players can participate in and you will never see them, so again requests for splitting the BGS to be affected differently by open / solo / groups is something that is very very unlikely to occur and is how the system is designed to work.

I can (and do) understand the frustration of some players who love PVP and get right into their powerplay and want to 'engage' those opposing their powers, not always being able to do so due to the mechanics implemented, I think most of those mechanics are here to stay and so are the modes...

Yes emmergent gameplay can happen in open, it can also happen in groups, and whats to say emmergent gameplay 'cannot' happen in a PVE multiplayer mode?

Try going to a combat zone facing no enemy CMDRs... Now go to one facing some... Which instantly concerns you more. Now do a Powerplay task against no enemy CMDRs... Now do it in OPEN... Which offers more danger?

IMHO there should only be OPEN and the game should allow players to actively undertake missions/tasks which offer PvP, or not... BUT, that is not going to happen, so IMHO, FD should make OPEN as close to that as it can, so it's as accessible to as many players as possible - ie: Mindless ganking it rare, and players are rewarded by the experience of seeing other CMDRs going about their business, rather than shutting themselves away in SOLO. If OPEN is done well, it should be more the more engaging and interesting environment to play in surely...

AND, most importantly, where ever outcomes are being determined, such as CGs and Powerplay tasks, the results should be accrued in two distinct totals which are combined. A total outcome achieved in OPEN and not in OPEN. I'd proposed these are at least 50/50, if not 60/40. In that fashion, players are not rewarded for ducking into SOLO to be more productive (& safer), and infact, with a 60/40 split, players are potentially rewarded if they play in OPEN as their results may count for a bit more!



I can think of nothing worse than in a couple of years say when Powerplay has actually become something more interesting, and a mechanic has pushed a station into blockade. The local power is trying to break the blockade, and the invading power is trying to enforce it... The results of the number of ships making it through the blockade have an active bearing on the outcome of the blockage. Can you imagine how utterly annoying - to the point of mechanic breaking - it would be if all that happened was all the defending Power CMDRs did was hop into SOLO/GROUP and all run the blockage against far less challenging NPC enemy. At least if results are accrued in OPEN and non-OPEN this would be recognised and dealt with to some degree...

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Try going to a combat zone facing no enemy CMDRs... Now go to one facing some... Which instantly concerns you more. Now do a Powerplay task against no enemy CMDRs... Now do it in OPEN... Which offers more danger?

Hold on a moment there sir!

If you play in Open you are aware of the risks, and accept them, and do it because you want those pucker moments when you see another CMDR. In other words, you are being rewarded by the added danger.

If you care more about efficiency than the danger, then you can also switch to PG or Solo. Nothing stopping you.

Why is this an argument against a PvE only mode?

If its a question of Risk vs Credit Reward, then make the reward of killing a hostile player go up decently. But that's a discussion for a crime and punishment thread.

 

[Tuub t Tute]

I want to have my cake and eat it and the other guy can only have a smaller piece of cake. In fact no, if he wants cake he has to come and take mine, if he can...

Does that about cover the Open+ argument?

 

[NeilF]

Hold on a moment there sir!

If you play in Open you are aware of the risks, and accept them, and do it because you want those pucker moments when you see another CMDR. In other words, you are being rewarded by the added danger.

Sorry, what is the point of quoting a statement made out of context?

The point being made there was acknowledging/accepting SOLO/GROUP most likely offers a safer/more efficient experience than OPEN. Indeed, you suggest as much yourself (below).

If you care more about efficiency than the danger, then you can also switch to PG or Solo. Nothing stopping you.

Indeed! And there lies a huge issue IMHO that will be an achilles heel to ED for the deeper mechanics I'm sure alot of players would like to see. eg: In Powerplay... The game is currently rewarding CMDRs for ducking into SOLO!?

And the fact you bush the issue aside with such ease saddens/worries me TBH.

Why is this an argument against a PvE only mode?

It's not... If you're read my post (I suspect you were in to much of a rush to respond?) you'll hopefully see I was trying to rationalise PvE. (a) Make OPEN more appealing to individuals who at the moment might feel they have to play in SOLO (eg: due to poor crime and punishment mechanics), (b) Most importantly, acknowledge people will use SOLO (for efficiency) and take account of that in places where it matters, such as PP tasks and CGs.

If its a question of Risk vs Credit Reward, then make the reward of killing a hostile player go up decently. But that's a discussion for a crime and punishment thread.

It a broader theme.

While SOLO rewards players across the board from personal gain, to community gain (eg: Powerplay results), the game will not work as well as it could IMHO. We obviously cannot lose SOLO, but we can, (a) make OPEN more appealing, (b) accept SOLO circumnavigates comunity totals with an easier experience (eg: PP totals and CG totals) and as such, accrue these totals seperataly. ie: It's not then simply a matter of all CMDRs in a Power ducking into SOLO to make their efforts more fruitful, because SOLO would now only account for 40-50% of the results, with the rest being what's achieved in OPEN. Ultimately, don't ignore the issue, simply acknowledge it and cater for it...

Offering more means of segregating a portion of the community away from the rest should be a last resort, not one that is proactively sort from the outset.

 

[excalibus]

Sorry, what is the point of quoting a statement made out of context?

The point being made there was acknowledging/accepting SOLO/GROUP most likely offers a safer/more efficient experience than OPEN. Indeed, you suggest as much yourself (below).

Indeed! And there lies a huge issue IMHO that will be an achilles heel to ED for the deeper mechanics I'm sure alot of players would like to see. eg: In Powerplay... The game is currently rewarding CMDRs for ducking into SOLO!?

And the fact you bush the issue aside with such ease saddens/worries me TBH.

It's not... If you're read my post (I suspect you were in to much of a rush to respond?) you'll hopefully see I was trying to rationalise PvE. (a) Make OPEN more appealing to individuals who at the moment might feel they have to play in SOLO (eg: due to poor crime and punishment mechanics), (b) Most importantly, acknowledge people will use SOLO (for efficiency) and take account of that in places where it matters, such as PP tasks and CGs.

It a broader theme.

While SOLO rewards players across the board from personal gain, to community gain (eg: Powerplay results), the game will not work as well as it could IMHO. We obviously cannot lose SOLO, but we can, (a) make OPEN more appealing, (b) accept SOLO circumnavigates comunity totals with an easier experience (eg: PP totals and CG totals) and as such, accrue these totals seperataly. ie: It's not then simply a matter of all CMDRs in a Power ducking into SOLO to make their efforts more fruitful, because SOLO would now only account for 40-50% of the results, with the rest being what's achieved in OPEN. Ultimately, don't ignore the issue, simply acknowledge it and cater for it...

Offering more means of segregating a portion of the community away from the rest should be a last resort, not one that is proactively sort from the outset.

Offering a PVE multiplayer mode on the login screen is more about coalescing the fragmented PVE community, bringing PVE players out of solo into a mode where they can interact with others and allowing for those players to play PVE cooperatively or competitively as they deem fit...

No one is asking for changes to the current open mode, this has been mentioned many times already...

As for what you are asking for with regards to PP, Sandro at least has floated the idea of something for OPEN players to give PP more benefit to performing that aspect of the game in OPEN...

Weather or not it is possible to do so without compromising the other BGS affects I am at this early stage uncertain but he has stated that it would not be for direct personal 'gain' over the other modes just different influence effects on the powerplay stuff if it is performed in open...

Perhaps you are better off discussing powerplay open rewards in that thread?

Also as I have said, I do like some of your ideas and think some of them have definite merit, but for the most part, some of it matters to this discussion but a fair bit of it is less relevant with regards to a PVE multiplayer mode on the login screen goes...

 

[Roland2]

While SOLO rewards players across the board from personal gain, to community gain (eg: Powerplay results), the game will not work as well as it could IMHO. We obviously cannot lose SOLO, but we can, (a) make OPEN more appealing, (b) accept SOLO circumnavigates comunity totals with an easier experience (eg: PP totals and CG totals) and as such, accrue these totals seperataly. ie: It's not then simply a matter of all CMDRs in a Power ducking into SOLO to make their efforts more fruitful, because SOLO would now only account for 40-50% of the results, with the rest being what's achieved in OPEN. Ultimately, don't ignore the issue, simply acknowledge it and cater for it...

Offering more means of segregating a portion of the community away from the rest should be a last resort, not one that is proactively sort from the outset.

I think your in the wrong thread. There are at least two other threads talking about the perceived imbalance between modes.

As for segregating the community, how would it be more segregated then it already is? How many private groups are there? Plus solo, plus xbox solo, plus xbox open (may change). Adding one more option isn't going to make much difference to segregation, and may reduce it by bringing people who don't want PvP together.

Edit: Ninja'd

 

[NeilF]

I think your in the wrong thread. There are at least two other threads talking about the perceived imbalance between modes.

There's a number of issues all revolving around OPEN/SOLO and PvP/PvE... Difficult to discuss one without crossing over into the broader aspect of them IMHO. Indeed, I'd suggest its possibly dangerous to discuss only one side of the matter without considering the the other(s).

As for segregating the community, how would it be more segregated then it already is? How many private groups are there? Plus solo, plus xbox solo, plus xbox open (may change). Adding one more option isn't going to make much difference to segregation, and may reduce it by bringing people who don't want PvP together.

It's re-inforcing the split, rather than working out the reason for it, and ideally actively dealing with it.

ie: The very idea that some players duck into SOLO (PvE) purely for a competitive advantage (& not just for personal gains but more signifantly for community outcomes in PP and CGs).

I understand that talking about such matters isn't specific to a PvE mode etc, but as it has such a huge bearing on such matters I think it's important to understand and discuss these other matter when talking about PvE modes, and how they would fit into these existing "problem"...


I'd still suggest in an absolute ideal world, we'd only have OPEN, and the game would allow players to play the game deciding how much exposure they want to PvP by their own choices of missions, tasks and actions.

But as that is unlikely to happen, I'd still like OPEN to get as close to that as possible, while SOLO is then simply openly accepted as a different animal and community based results (eg: PP outcomes and CG outcomes) are split quite openly between OPEN and non-OPEN.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Sorry, what is the point of quoting a statement made out of context?

The point being made there was acknowledging/accepting SOLO/GROUP most likely offers a safer/more efficient experience than OPEN. Indeed, you suggest as much yourself (below).

Indeed! And there lies a huge issue IMHO that will be an achilles heel to ED for the deeper mechanics I'm sure alot of players would like to see. eg: In Powerplay... The game is currently rewarding CMDRs for ducking into SOLO!?

And the fact you bush the issue aside with such ease saddens/worries me TBH.

It's not... If you're read my post (I suspect you were in to much of a rush to respond?) you'll hopefully see I was trying to rationalise PvE. (a) Make OPEN more appealing to individuals who at the moment might feel they have to play in SOLO (eg: due to poor crime and punishment mechanics), (b) Most importantly, acknowledge people will use SOLO (for efficiency) and take account of that in places where it matters, such as PP tasks and CGs.

It a broader theme.

While SOLO rewards players across the board from personal gain, to community gain (eg: Powerplay results), the game will not work as well as it could IMHO. We obviously cannot lose SOLO, but we can, (a) make OPEN more appealing, (b) accept SOLO circumnavigates comunity totals with an easier experience (eg: PP totals and CG totals) and as such, accrue these totals seperataly. ie: It's not then simply a matter of all CMDRs in a Power ducking into SOLO to make their efforts more fruitful, because SOLO would now only account for 40-50% of the results, with the rest being what's achieved in OPEN. Ultimately, don't ignore the issue, simply acknowledge it and cater for it...

Offering more means of segregating a portion of the community away from the rest should be a last resort, not one that is proactively sort from the outset.

Apologies if i misunderstood your post.

However:

The game is currently rewarding CMDRs for ducking into SOLO!?

You make it sound so shady! Some people duck into solo. Many players never duck into open. How are they being rewarded by playing in solo? Aren't we told all the time that we are missing out by not playing in Open? The fun and thrill of player encounters!

 

[Robert Maynard]

But as that is unlikely to happen, I'd still like OPEN to get as close to that as possible, while SOLO is then simply openly accepted as a different animal and community based results (eg: PP outcomes and CG outcomes) are split quite openly between OPEN and non-OPEN.

Separating the BGS between the game modes is very unlikely to happen, in my opinion - as each and every player experiencing and affecting the single shared galaxy state was a fundamental design feature upon which the game has been delivered.