(info) First bonus for playing in OPEN under consideration for PP

[CMDR John Casey]

Players supporting Sandro's hypothesis are not doing it because they want an incentive to try delivering pamphlets in Open; they are doing it because they want more fish in their barrel.

Well thanks for talking in my place...

I don't want more "fish", I've already plenty of it at the CGs or in the expansions, you can't really say that there are no targets in these "accumulation points". I support Sandro's hypothesis for the following reasons:

First of all, the modes are not equal, especially in Powerplay. And I'm not talking about the risk. I'm talking about the fact, for instance, that solo undermining a system takes 3x 4x more time than doing it in open or private, because the clients generate NPCs, so being able to see more players allows you to see also more target NPCs. This is unfair to the Solo player. Outside powerplay, let's take another example where you are in open and enter a crowded RES, even if you wing with other commanders, your credits/hour will be sensibly less than if you enter the same RES in solo. These are proofs that the modes are not equal, now, even without the proposed changes.

Therefore, the first reason for me to be for the proposal, is that since modes are not equal, the developers should not be afraid to modify the bonus/malus that you can obtain by choosing one mode over another. Because there are already situations in which folk choose one mode over another.

Second point, I don't think that seeing more people is seeing more targets. I'd be happy to provide escort to some traders or "pamphlet droppers". I did it in Lugh and it was funny. It's a game mechanic that nobody uses, yet there are mechanisms to foster it (does anybody know that if you're in wing with traders you get a 5% of the value of the marchandise they sell, and that with no charge for selling guy?).

So, thanks for talking in my place, but these are my reasons, not to "have more fish in my barrel". People who want PvP are already in open, there's no need to bait people out in open at all.

 

[Tuub t Tute]

Well thanks for talking in my place...

First of all, the modes are not equal, especially in Powerplay. And I'm not talking about the risk. I'm talking about the fact, for instance, that solo undermining a system takes 3x 4x more time than doing it in open or private, because the clients generate NPCs, so being able to see more players allows you to see also more target NPCs. This is unfair to the Solo player. Outside powerplay, let's take another example where you are in open and enter a crowded RES, even if you wing with other commanders, your credits/hour will be sensibly less than if you enter the same RES in solo. These are proofs that the modes are not equal, now, even without the proposed changes.

So, thanks for talking in my place, but these are my reasons, not to "have more fish in my barrel". People who want PvP are already in open, there's no need to bait people out in open at all.

Both your examples are about shooting ships, not about delivering pamphlets and one of them states that it is 3 or 4 times harder in Solo to complete that task.
That is great data, thank you. hopefully input like that will help Sandro to realise that if things are not 100% equal, there are already existing swing and roundabout balances which makes arbitrary, broad brush multipliers redundant.

 

[Jockey79]

Don't do it in a cutter or your skewing your potential findings by basically saying you need a wing of decent ships to have any impact, I suspect a majority of players still can't afford a cutter or anything of the like, I could buy one but I certainly couldn't get close to A rating it.

I said get a shield for my Cutter, not that I'd use the Cutter

I'd most likely use an Asp, so I could jump about the "busy" systems to find all this "extra risk"... while my son watches Netflix, my daughters watch YouTube on their devices and my wife plays Warframe.
I'm sure my ping will be stable enough to see space.... not sure about the rest of the player base, but I'll see space ok and I'm sure everyone will agree that every minute I'm in pseudo Solo it will be worth an added bonus to my influence

 

[VR Murgle]

So exactly what is this PP bonus supposed to do? Is it to “coerce” people currently engaging in PP in Solo and PG to play in Open or is it an acceptance of the status quo? If it is meant to bring people back to Open, would it work?
To answer that we would have to investigate why people don’t do PP in Open.
There are a few different groups with different motives to avoid Open for PP.

One: The people who do not like PvP and play Solo or PG exclusively. Are they going to be forced to play in Open against their will because some bonus on some dreadfully boring activity? Uh, No! They might feel they are being treated unfairly though and quit playing.

Two: The Min/maxers, they play in Solo because it’s the most efficient way to gain merits so they can get their reward and move on. Surely these people would be enticed by a nice big bonus? Erm, the bonus goes to the Power they’re working for not to them and since they’re only in it for the shinies and don’t give and isht about PP they’ll stay where they are.

Three: Mice, these people play in Solo/PG because it’s convenient but could, perhaps, with the right incentive, maybe, be swayed to play in Open, if it’s not too much trouble thank you very much. The bonus might actually work on some of them but...There always is a but right? If as Sandro suggested the effectiveness of Players engaged in PP in Open really is only 50% that would mean you get interdicted by players a lot. Chances are very few would stick around and go back to Solo/PG and again some might feel they are treated unfairly and pre order “No man’s sky” or get down on their knees and pray to Chris Roberts for the release of SC.

So that is:
Fail
Fail
Mostly fail

Doesn’t look very effective to me but then what do I know?

Now if the PvP crowd were to police themselves, like they were supposed to, and if we had player hubs where we could meet, chat, show off our ships/ paintjobs and look for group and if we had some kind of guild system, if in fact we had any if the tools most other multi player games have, then all we needed to do was make PP fun and we’d have solved the problem.

If of course this bonus is merely to reward the “Valliant Knights of Open” for their outstanding performance in the face of "insurmountable odds", well then what more can I say?

It is however a bitter pill to swallow if you've first been told to "git gud" or get out (to Solo/PG) and then, when you've done as asked, hear you have to get back or get stuffed

 

[CMDR John Casey]

Both your examples are about shooting ships, not about delivering pamphlets and one of them states that it is 3 or 4 times harder in Solo to complete that task.
That is great data, thank you. hopefully input like that will help Sandro to realise that if things are not 100% equal, there are already existing swing and roundabout balances which makes arbitrary, broad brush multipliers redundant.

They're not secret data, it's everyday experience in Powerplay, which seems the big missing thing in most of those who criticize Sandro's proposal.

 

[Jockey79]

....

It is however a bitter pill to swallow if you've first been told to "git gud" or get out (to Solo/PG) and then, when you've done as asked, hear you have to get back or get stuffed

Yup, from here on in - we are not mode switchers, mode hoppers etc...

We are the Yo-Yo crowd. As the PvP'ers can throw us out of open, pull us back, throw us out, pull us back..........

 

[Derath]

Thats because you view it as an attempt to coerce players back to open, not to balance out things for the ones that currently choose to play there

 

[Tuub t Tute]

They're not secret data, it's everyday experience in Powerplay, which seems the big missing thing in most of those who criticize Sandro's proposal.

Yes and you've said "For one major PP task, Solo is 3 or 4 x harder; I agree Open needs a buff..."

 

[Derath]

I said get a shield for my Cutter, not that I'd use the Cutter

I'd most likely use an Asp, so I could jump about the "busy" systems to find all this "extra risk"... while my son watches Netflix, my daughters watch YouTube on their devices and my wife plays Warframe.
I'm sure my ping will be stable enough to see space.... not sure about the rest of the player base, but I'll see space ok and I'm sure everyone will agree that every minute I'm in pseudo Solo it will be worth an added bonus to my influence

So your saying you set your router up / have one of the ones with FD's superb p2p issues? If you fly an Asp and have no problem seeing players and you try to PP in open I doubt very much you'd go a month without anything happening.

 

[VR Murgle]

Thats because you view it as an attempt to coerce players back to open, not to balance out things for the ones that currently choose to play there

I believe I've covered that in the last part of my post but then you already knew that and choose to ignore it.

 

[Jypson]

Do not confuse all modes being equal in terms of content (solo doesn't have wings for example) or required style of play with all modes being considered equal by the devs.

As long as devs consider all modes equally valid ways of playing, they will never do anything to show favour to one mode over another. Should they do so, it means they no longer consider all modes to be equally valid - and that will send a signal to the playerbase, some of whom will rejoice, and some of whom will be unhappy.

Forget showing favor, how about slighting. Slighting may be a bit strong, lets try 'overlook'? No NPC Wing options, and the announcement of no NPC crew in Season 2. Solo is very truly being left alone when it comes to multi-ship and in the future, multi-crew dynamics. I don't know if it's lack of interest, man-hours, or programming skill that made those decisions come about, but anyone claiming that Solo players get any preferential treatment is absurd. And now we have CMDR's in this thread calling for PP to be removed from Solo as well. No sir, the three modes are not equal at all.

All that being said, as a Solo player, it is my choice to click Solo each time and no one is forcing my hand. I would ask all players to remember the same, play mode is a choice, not a mandate.

 

[Derath]

I believe I've covered that in the last part of my post but then you already knew that and choose to ignore it.

Its not a question of ignoring its just a difference of opinion, many people see it as a coercion but I just see it as a change for people who enjoy playing in open. If they add NPC wingmen in solo I wouldn't view that as coercing me to play solo, its just improving things for people that do.

Like your whole piece back a page was under the assumption it was a coercion, I don't think it is so I don't have anything to respond to that other than it isn't a coercion.

 

[Jockey79]

So your saying you set your router up / have one of the ones with FD's superb p2p issues?

No, I said I'd play when my entire family is online on cheap internet connection, which has a poor ping when I'm online on my own, once the family start doing stuff the only place I'm on my own is in game
I never said for the purpose of this test I'd touch my router/ network hardware at all, because I would not need to touch it.

If you fly an Asp and have no problem seeing players and you try to PP in open I doubt very much you'd go a month without anything happening.

I have no problems seeing other players with UPnP on and my family not being online (at school/ out of the house - or in bed on a night).
But I very much can go 4 weeks, I can go for years without seeing another player if I only play when everyone is at home and online soaking up my internet connection.

So unless you want to buy me a better internet connection, I can play open without having to touch a router setting and still never see anyone in open... it's all to do with timing.

I also like to stream Spotify while I'm trading, nowt like some sing along time when doing A-B-A trading or pushing vouchers about.
We going to ban streaming music as it soaks up bandwidth ?

So many ways to "accidentally" send my ping so high the match maker just gives up trying to put me with anyone.

Can you imagine what live streaming would do to my connection.....

So my offer still stands, I'm happy to live stream me taking advantage of an open only bonus lol.

 

[Robert Maynard]

If they add NPC wingmen in solo I wouldn't view that as coercing me to play solo, its just improving things for people that do.

If / when NPC Wingmen are added, I doubt that they would be restricted to Solo.

 

[Snarfbuckle]

Good, now if we can do this with everything else.

I think a proper Crime & Punishment system where all actions have consequences and where high security systems like SOL and ACHENAR feels secure while Anarchy systems is literally a viper pit to enter would help the game more.

 

[Mercy Killing]

Well, I've pulled my stakes up for this fight. Quit my power. Totally gave up on Powerplay, and looks like I'll just be puttering about the galaxy until No Man's Sky comes out. Satisfied?

 

[Trafalgar Law]

Well, I've pulled my stakes up for this fight. Quit my power. Totally gave up on Powerplay, and looks like I'll just be puttering about the galaxy until No Man's Sky comes out. Satisfied?

That seems a bit premature as this is only in discussion. Although I'm with you on puttering about until NMS is released (2.1 may keep me here, but it'll have to be amazing).

 

[CMDR John Casey]

Yes and you've said "For one major PP task, Solo is 3 or 4 x harder; I agree Open needs a buff..."

I never said that. I said that collecting merits in solo is slower, not harder. Difficulty can only be established by FD with all data in their hands (if they have them). What I'm saying is that modes are not equal, so invoking the supposed equality of modes to keep the status quo is wrong. What I think is interesting is to abandon this way of thinking and give the devs free hand in choosing what benefits one may have in joining a mode rather than another one. And make this a developer choice and not a side effect / not intended feature.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Forget showing favor, how about slighting. Slighting may be a bit strong, lets try 'overlook'? No NPC Wing options, and the announcement of no NPC crew in Season 2. Solo is very truly being left alone when it comes to multi-ship and in the future, multi-crew dynamics. I don't know if it's lack of interest, man-hours, or programming skill that made those decisions come about, but anyone claiming that Solo players get any preferential treatment is absurd. And now we have CMDR's in this thread calling for PP to be removed from Solo as well. No sir, the three modes are not equal at all.

All that being said, as a Solo player, it is my choice to click Solo each time and no one is forcing my hand. I would ask all players to remember the same, play mode is a choice, not a mandate.

Ah, i am hoping one day FD will add hireable NPC wingmen and crew members. One can dream... would also help with people in Open as well. You could fly a trade ship in Open and let your wingmen deal with player attacks while you get out. At least it would provide a distraction. Sure, the players might target you, but then they hopefully will get pounded on by the NPCs (which by that point the mistress of minoins might have ironed out the bugs in NPC AI).

 

[Jypson]

Ah, i am hoping one day FD will add hireable NPC wingmen and crew members. One can dream... would also help with people in Open as well. You could fly a trade ship in Open and let your wingmen deal with player attacks while you get out. At least it would provide a distraction. Sure, the players might target you, but then they hopefully will get pounded on by the NPCs (which by that point the mistress of minoins might have ironed out the bugs in NPC AI).

I too hope, fingers crossed. I haven't heard any scuttlebutt about those features being considered from on-high, have you?