(info) First bonus for playing in OPEN under consideration for PP

[Majinvash]

IIRC, they didn't "forget," but were faced with several technical limitations that they did not have the time or resources to circumvent in time for scheduled releases. The releases were made with the promise that the shared galaxy, groups, and so on, were all intended for xbox and would be implemented as that became possible.

They are making good on that promise.

Sure ok.... Marketing at its best because Xbone players felt slighted because the PC Master race had something they didn't and complained till they got it.


Right bored of the same arguments that has kept the Open vs Solo abomination of a thread going for the last year.

I'm off to club some seals in Eravate PEW PEW PEW

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

 

[Theodrid]

Sure ok.... Marketing at its best because Xbone players felt slighted because the PC Master race had something they didn't and complained till they got it.


Right bored of the same arguments that has kept the Open vs Solo abomination of a thread going for the last year.

I'm off to club some seals in Eravate PEW PEW PEW

Majinvash
The Voice of Open

What, not off trying to fortify/promote your preferred power Maj? - quelle surprise.........

 

[Kristov]

> :S I'm getting lost on some of these terms. I think I understand that a 5th columnist is; someone who joins to work against the power? What are the other two?

Yes, 5th column work directly against the Power they've pledged to.

Lost souls are people who haven't got a clue and just do things that seem to make sense to them, like fortifying a system the PP group wants to lose because it's a drain on resources, or undermine a system the PP group doesn't want for that very same reason, or they only do things in their own special little system.

Cherry pickers are only pledged to get the toys, they'll do the fastest, easiest things possible to get the rank and hold it so they can get those toys, buy lots of them on multiple ships, then defect and go to another power for their toys. Typically, this is ALD for the Imperial Hammers and The Anime Princess for the Prismatic Shields, since those are really the only toys of any usefulness. The Pacifier, the frag cannon, is ok, not really worth it though, and the rest of the toys are pretty much jokes, not worth bothering with, so cherry pickers usually just switch between the two Imperial Powers for those toys then stop PP totally or move to another Power that they actually want to support.

Cherry pickers are the smallest of the groups, and they are only around for a short time frame(4 weeks typically, all it takes to get the toys), so they really don't have much influence on PP at all.

 

[Jypson]

Yes, 5th column work directly against the Power they've pledged to.

Lost souls are people who haven't got a clue and just do things that seem to make sense to them, like fortifying a system the PP group wants to lose because it's a drain on resources, or undermine a system the PP group doesn't want for that very same reason, or they only do things in their own special little system.

Cherry pickers are only pledged to get the toys, they'll do the fastest, easiest things possible to get the rank and hold it so they can get those toys, buy lots of them on multiple ships, then defect and go to another power for their toys. Typically, this is ALD for the Imperial Hammers and The Anime Princess for the Prismatic Shields, since those are really the only toys of any usefulness. The Pacifier, the frag cannon, is ok, not really worth it though, and the rest of the toys are pretty much jokes, not worth bothering with, so cherry pickers usually just switch between the two Imperial Powers for those toys then stop PP totally or move to another Power that they actually want to support.

Cherry pickers are the smallest of the groups, and they are only around for a short time frame(4 weeks typically, all it takes to get the toys), so they really don't have much influence on PP at all.

Gotchya. Thanks Kristov!

 

[Deathwatch]

That does seem to be the case.

Unfortunately, IMO, FD have effectively tied their hands behind their backs by promising "Three equal modes," which this change would break.

The issue is do we see equality as a solid line or a liquid, I see equality as more of a liquid that it evolves when their is a situation for it to prevent it from breaking, making it a single solid line will mean it justs breaks.

For example the current "equality" between the modes i view as non-existant.

While the situation is all the same their is slight differences, I will phrase it based on someone leaving their house.

In Solo, you leave your house, their are these mindless NPC's whom act like chickens and spin in circles but no intelligent threats.
In Private Group, you leave your house and see your friend now you either have a chat or maybe you both have a friendly duel/scrap while AI still spin in circles.
In Open Play, you leave your house the NPC's spin in circles, as you turn you get punched to the floor and stomped by a random stranger.

 

[GilliganTX]

"Open is harder because of player killers and I think that deserves a buff."


"I'm going to go kill player [in open]."

Anybody else see how convoluted that logic is, or is it just me?

 

[hiciacit]

...bribery to try and save an unpopular mode.

That's very much what this whole thing smells like.

 

[Brimstone]

"Open is harder because of player killers and I think that deserves a buff."


"I'm going to go kill player [in open]."


http://i.imgur.com/EAvvfw2.gif?noredirect



Anybody else see how convoluted that logic is, or is it just me?

Makes perfect sense to me.

 

[xaisis]

Surely though you understand that by doing that, the developers are actively endorsing one game mode over the others, and giving it hard-coded advantages over the others.


That is a HUGE departure from the "Three equal modes" promise.


you can see how this would be massively disingenuous to many players who've supported ED on the basis of that promise? I think FD needs to respect those players the same as any other, and respect the promises that they made to them.

Well it seems that is where we are going now.

Now we just have to see how far it will go.

[hotas]

 

[Jockey79]

So you want FD to be less transparent...?

... What?

What if people were to eventually find out without being told first? How insane do you think the reaction would be?

Unless you have a 100% guarantee you are the only person working a system (something I doubt you can actually get) - please me how you know how much you've personally moved a bar along.
It only takes a few others to be working the same areas as you (from any mode, in ships unknown to you, doing an unknown amount of work to you) and you actually wont see just your contribution, just how much you've all pushed the bar along since you last looked - we just assume it moved a set number from our own work, but the game does not tell us how much work we actually did to push those bars, just a total number.
So any disproportionate movement in the bar can be explained away by "people in other instances" or "people in other modes" - and you'd be none the wiser.

And as Sandro has stated, the change would have no personal gain to it, why would we even need to know that bar moved a few percent more in open than it would have in S/PG - you'd not have earned any more credits / merits anyway.
So the information would serve no purpose other than give folks a reason (like they need one) to moan.

@GF I would have thought you understood that there is such a thing as "too much information" with how much you're on the forums.
I never seen a forum like this one for taking the tiniest bit of unimportant information and blowing it up to massive proportions.

 

[GilliganTX]

The issue is do we see equality as a solid line or a liquid, I see equality as more of a liquid that it evolves when their is a situation for it to prevent it from breaking, making it a single solid line will mean it justs breaks.

For example the current "equality" between the modes i view as non-existant.

While the situation is all the same their is slight differences, I will phrase it based on someone leaving their house.

In Solo, you leave your house, their are these mindless NPC's whom act like chickens and spin in circles but no intelligent threats.
In Private Group, you leave your house and see your friend now you either have a chat or maybe you both have a friendly duel/scrap while AI still spin in circles.
In Open Play, you leave your house the NPC's spin in circles, as you turn you get punched to the floor and stomped by a random stranger.

You are confusing equality with equity.


At present, the modes are all treated equally by frontier.

What makes the modes different is their populations.

That difference in populations results in inequitable results between the groups regarding powerplay.


Many seem to be viewing that inequity as inequality, which is not the case. The modes are absolutely treated equally by the developers. Zero distinction is made regarding a mechanics effectiveness or usability between the groups. The nature of the groups returns a difference in equity.

 

[iFred]

The day we see a bonus for any of the 3 modes is the day the game will be uninstalled from my computer. The one and only solution will be seperate galaxies.

 

[mistohise]

I find it completely bizarre that there would be consideration of bonuses for playing in open before fixing punishment mechanics. So essentially open bonuses for anyone with a PvP agenda and ship configuration.
Support a trade like power? No problem! Simply outfit for PvP and you can get a bonus to your contribution.
I see zero flaws with this approach.
Logically we can extend the bonuses across the rest of the game because open is not just more difficult for power play, it's more difficult for everything.
So, bonuses for everything for anyone with a suitable ship build that can stand up to PvP. Yep, that definitely supports the idea of playing your own way.

 

[GluttonyFang]

I'm off to club some seals in Eravate PEW PEW PEW

Welp... I better put on my reading glasses for the complaints to come in the next week I guess .-.

 

[Surly_Badger]

Anybody else see how convoluted that logic is, or is it just me?

I see it too.

There is a lot of motivated reasoning going on here.

 

[hiciacit]

Hello Commanders!

A couple of clarifications:

* This change, which remember is nothing more than a suggestion at this point, would have no effect on personal gain. It would affect success values for expansion, fortification and undermining only, not the merits you earned.

* It does not, and is not, meant to be a panacea to make the actual activities of Powerplay better. It's best to think of it as activity agnostic. That's not to say that we don't want to improve the activities (we do!), just that this is not aimed at that.

* The reason this benefit would only apply to Open as opposed to in Private Groups is fairly clear I think: we have no way to control distribution in Private Groups. Folk could start a Private Group where everyone was pledged to a single power. This would effectively then be Solo in terms of dealing with the potential threat of other Commanders.

* I would not want to introduce this into any aspect of the game except Powerplay because Powerplay is the only aspect of the game that explicitly uses the concept of adversarial multiplayer, as opposed to the more vague ways that minor factions operate.

Hope this info helps.

I'm thinking there are other, more important problems with this game that would benefit from the creative energy that is now being wasted on this non-issue.

 

[Theodrid]

You really don't understand how this proposed modifier works:

There are other elements in Sandro's post that suggest I may have a point though....

 

[Kristov]

Not pointless, I am pointing out that some of the sudden fake interest in powerplay is exactly that, fake. If you think lots of posters pretending 'oh it hurts powerplay', or 'oh pwerplay is broken' when all they are really interested in is rapid farming for shields or weapons, fine, I don't think it's pointless, I think it is a disingenuous attempt to sway Frontier in a certain direction. Once again, to the true powerplayers, you have my utmost respect, to the rest of you, jeez, cut the droppings boys and girls and just tell Frontier you want you 'lazors' quicker, stop pretending.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -



No need to prove anything, it's an internet forum, and the lack of posting in these boards reference powerplay from some of the posters, as well as other boards outside of Frontiers control does speak volumes, if that offends you, so be it. Why it is so offensive to some people to simply admit the blindingly obvious is somewhat lost on me but sadly typical in debates like this, I retract nothing.

And you've let your bias against Open show all too clearly here. The proposal wouldn't help anyone get anything from PP any quicker, it's NOT a personal reward at all, it only applies to the Power, which Sandro has been clear about multiple times now. So bringing up people who just want to get the toys and move on and saying this will make it faster for them to do that, well, we know why you are against this and it has nothing to do with PP at all.

 

[GilliganTX]

Makes perfect sense to me.

You can't create a situation, then claim that you deserve compensation because of the situation you created.

Banks shouldn't be able to tank the economy, then ask for a government bailout because they created a housing bubble that tanked the economy.

 

[Cadoc]

This is a step in the right direction. IMO ultimately Powerplay should be Open-only. In Solo it is unbelievably dull anyway, easily the most boring part of the game, so it's not like solo players will miss out on much. Right now PP serves no purpose other than bounty hunting bonuses, with this limitation it could at least be a vehicle for player conflict.