(info) First bonus for playing in OPEN under consideration for PP

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More to the point, the current implementation of PP discourages people who are in Open from being in the same sector. People who play Open aren't usually the kind of people who enjoy Fortification, so basically everyone in Open is Undermining, like missiles passing each other in the air. And guess what, no is home to defend because there are no Merits supporting defensive combat. Apart from a few Combat CZ (Security Sweeps) this is fundamentally the exact same as playing Solo.

The only way I see this really working is if it somehow entices people to Fortify in Open, and if we also give some incentive for players who act as Military escorts for Cargo Fortification ships. This would allow for emergent defensive Wings in Open to be a viable strategy/tactic. Also as a back up mechanic, the NPC security in high Sec control systems needs to be johnny-on-the-spot with a rapid fire high power response to criminal undermining activity. Which means that PP NPC foreign agents that harass local traffic in core (high security) control systems should not be an issue. People shouldn't really be harassed by constant interdiction in High Sec systems by foreign agents anyway. That is as realistic as being chronically harassed by ISIS in downtown Houston.

I believe that is the point though that Sandro is wanting to deal with. Making people support in open by giving the bonus. As noted earlier though, he will need to find a way to make sure that bonus applies to only those who stay in Open from source to destination, otherwise its easy to get around with mode switching.

However, you raise a good point about those being in Open are doing undermining. We don't have stats, and Sandro says many thousands of people participate in PP. But how many of those are simply merit farming? How many of those actually care about the support side? How many people are actually taking part in powerplay and actually doing the (to my mind) boring grind of A to B deliveries and actually supporting their power?

The powerplay forums and subreddits have activity, but a lot of it is the same core players. Those who are really invested in the mini-game.

I'm not even convinced this proposed bonus will have the desired effect.

Hell, i'm beginning to think Sandro might as well go and do this (although i really dislike this idea of favouring any activities in Open just because of the potential for PvP and i'd really rather see development effort regarding powerplay to go into actually improving the mini-game itself to make it interesting enough to participate in). Because now i'm really curious to see if it will have the intended effect.
 
This is a good idea

Multiplayer always has much more room to grow then Singleplayer. Players are unique. The only thing that needs to change is the ruleset in open to cater to more people (crime, system types - high security/none etc)

A big problem with solo is that it's so enticing that even people that WANT to play multiplayer play in solo because there is no risk, you get 100% of the npc (no waiting) and the efficiency is through the roof. There is no point to doing anything in Multiplayer for grinding. This is called path of least resistance and majority of humans on the planet abide by it. (humans will take the easiest path at all times no matter what)
 
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Seems like a reasonable improvement to the BGS/Powerplay mechanics. It has my vote, but as long as the rewards for players do not vary between modes ofc.
 
More to the point, the current implementation of PP discourages people who are in Open from being in the same sector. People who play Open aren't usually the kind of people who enjoy Fortification, so basically everyone in Open is Undermining, like missiles passing each other in the air. And guess what, no is home to defend because there are no Merits supporting defensive combat. Apart from a few Combat CZ (Security Sweeps) this is fundamentally the exact same as playing Solo.

The only way I see this really working is if it somehow entices people to Fortify in Open, and if we also give some incentive for players who act as Military escorts for Cargo Fortification ships. This would allow for emergent defensive Wings in Open to be a viable strategy/tactic. Also as a back up mechanic, the NPC security in high Sec control systems needs to be johnny-on-the-spot with a rapid fire high power response to criminal undermining activity. Which means that PP NPC foreign agents that harass local traffic in core (high security) control systems should not be an issue. People shouldn't really be harassed by constant interdiction in High Sec systems by foreign agents anyway. That is as realistic as being chronically harassed by ISIS in downtown Houston.
There's a lot to be said for this post.
 
Could be worse, they could be on a zero hour contract.

I'm pretty sure that most of the "lucky" ones are :(

Endless grind for not much return, possessing skills that will never get used, having to work endlessly and beg for the meanest of treats, or not be given any work at all and be told you are fortunate to have the mere prospect of future income. It's a bit like Powerplay really :)
 
JHC on a pogo stick, can't a guy spend a few hours actually playing the game without a couple dozen more pages on the drama threads? You're killin' me here! I guess I need to switch to a private group for my internet...
 
Hello,
Not reading through the entire thread for Sandro's post. But my concerns are these, which I believe have been mentioned before in this thread:
1. How closely will PP tie in with the BGS?
2. I've read threads where players are asking for PP to have more relevance to the game universe and tie in more closely. So basically this would not only affect the Open crowd but also the group and solo crowd.
3. So if there are bonuses to PP in open and for a power to gain more CC if a controlled system's government is aligned to that of the Power would these bonuses apply to also effecting the BGS?
4. Player's who might have no interest in PP but have more interest in their minor factions (player minor factions or NPC minor factions) will also be affected if there is more of a tie in.
5. If there is no tie in and PP is a completely separate game to the rest of the game universe then people will complain, "what's the point".
6. Also, if there is more of a tie in then pretty much IMO group and solo players would be mainly there for grinding cr, levels and rep and supporting Open play, which does not seem to mesh with the Play Your Own Way mantra. If that's the case then IMO I would rather see group and solo players put into a separate BGS server. Or give solo offline mode.

Have fun, fly safe. o7
 
I'm pretty sure that most of the "lucky" ones are :(

Endless grind for not much return, possessing skills that will never get used, having to work endlessly and beg for the meanest of treats, or not be given any work at all and be told you are fortunate to have the mere prospect of future income. It's a bit like Powerplay really :)
Umm, zero hour contracts mean that you can work no more than 16 hours without losing all benefits then the next week be offered 8, then be offered 32 where you have to sign off, then back to 8...then be expected to pay your rent and actually "live" and these things are legal in the UK. This is all minimum wage regardless of experience or whatever. Purely an exercise in lowering the numbers of the jobless, yet not mentioning the human destruction left behind.
PP is minor league, you can work for a reward. There are no strings, you just grind it out. It almost seems like an honest job but oh so boring.
Zero hour contracts and the choice is not yours and they should be banned because of how they unsettle lives.
The power is placed into the hands of people who don't care at all so unsurprisingly it never ends well for the employee.
I've seen ppl put on the streets regards this and in floods of tears because they've been victims of this game, it's not fun but not related to this game so I digress.

Is boredom the new meta?
Oh wait...
 
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Umm, zero hour contracts mean that you can work no more than 16 hours without losing all benefits then the next week be offered 8, then be offered 32 where you have to sign off, then back to 8...then be expected to pay your rent and actually "live" and these things are legal in the UK.

I understand the predicament - really I do - I've been knee-deep in the doo-doo before, but the solution always appears to be not be on benefits and be able to afford to go out and pay rent. Meaningful employment means regular cash.

PP is minor league, you can work for a reward. There are no strings, you just grind it out. It almost seems like an honest job but oh so boring.

Most jobs are boring. That is why someone will pay money for someone else to do it for them :)

Zero hour contracts and the choice is not yours and they should be banned because of how they unsettle lives. The power is placed into the hands of people who don't care at all so unsurprisingly it never ends well.

Such is Socialism. Capitalism. Fascism. Anyism. If someone is unhappy with the situation they are in - then either change the situation, or move to a different one. There are heaps of jobs out there. You only need A: the skill to perform it, B: a location where your skills are in demand, and C: the ability to weigh up being poor where they are vs being even relatively well-off somewhere else.

I'm from Aberdeen in Scotland. I'm now in Chicago in the USA. If an idiot like me can do it - anyone can.
 
I believe that is the point though that Sandro is wanting to deal with. Making people support in open by giving the bonus. As noted earlier though, he will need to find a way to make sure that bonus applies to only those who stay in Open from source to destination, otherwise its easy to get around with mode switching.

However, you raise a good point about those being in Open are doing undermining. We don't have stats, and Sandro says many thousands of people participate in PP. But how many of those are simply merit farming? How many of those actually care about the support side? How many people are actually taking part in powerplay and actually doing the (to my mind) boring grind of A to B deliveries and actually supporting their power?

...

I'm not even convinced this proposed bonus will have the desired effect.

Hell, i'm beginning to think Sandro might as well go and do this (although i really dislike this idea of favouring any activities in Open just because of the potential for PvP and i'd really rather see development effort regarding powerplay to go into actually improving the mini-game itself to make it interesting enough to participate in). Because now i'm really curious to see if it will have the intended effect.


I understand completely, and I want Sandro's idea to be implemented as well, because I support the spirit of it 100%. I would also like for Sandro to succeed, and the only way I see that happening is if players actually meet each other in sensible opposition (in the more wild border territories) rather than just getting a better bonus for NPC farming in which ever system they feel like Undermining. If we want this to be interesting, then we need there to be some sanity and balance to the degree of risk/reward involved.

For instance, currently there is ZERO reason to seek out and destroy Underminers. Searching for Underminers slows down your own Merit farming far more than it disrupts any potential targets, since they can simply highwake to another control system. Honestly, I never quite understood how the soft power of postal workers was supposed to be more effective than Railguns at stopping domestic terrorism... [heart][up] + [down][alien] = [knocked out] + [alien][up] ???

So underminers, even in Sandro's suggestion will experience no new risk, but more reward. In addition Underminers will also gain the chance to actively oppose Fortification by attacking player Cargo ships that venture into the system they are currently Undermining. Hence, Undermining in Open will be the place to be.

However, in order for Fortifiers to gain the same bonus there is serious increased risk of being shot at by combat spec Underminers. So the balance of play will still dramatically favor undermining, even, and perhaps especially, if Fortifiers venture into Open. Since the Fortification can now be heavily disrupted, which will probably more than offset any bonus.

In short, Fortifiers need a way to oppose Underminers more directly. Either with Fortification Packets increasing local security levels, and/or by dramatically increasing rewards for actually driving off enemy agents who are undermining their systems. This should include NPC PP agents as well, just to give the defenders of a System some way of gaining Merits during the long wait between undermining the Underminers. Combat defense merits should be roughly half of what you'd get for Undermining. And the NPC agents spawn rate should be directly tied to the amount of Undermining going on there. This will dissuade people from simply camping a core control system and defending it with no personal risk and little personal gain. This will make the core systems feel more secure, as they should, and also create an air of wildness and unrest in border territories, where the action is really happening.
 
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For instance, currently there is ZERO reason to seek out and destroy Underminers. Searching for Underminers slows down your own Merit farming far more than it disrupts any potential targets, since they can simply highwake to another control system.

Good point. If you are involved in PP, you're better off just merit grinding yourself rather than doing the PvP anyway. It makes no difference if you kill an opposing powerplayer right? Or do you get merits for that?
 
Good point. If you are involved in PP, you're better off just merit grinding yourself rather than doing the PvP anyway. It makes no difference if you kill an opposing powerplayer right? Or do you get merits for that?

Interesting point. Perhaps that should be considered as well in pp. Lots of possible changes would make engaging in pp more fun and having some of those be directly related to player vs player combat would be a nice gesture to the PVP crowd, giving them another "job" within the game.
 
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