(info) First bonus for playing in OPEN under consideration for PP

[GluttonyFang]

Once people set about explaining to Sandro that the colors they have pinned, are pinned to their Minor Faction, how long until the chorus changes their mind? When nudging PP towards open doesn't bring the population shift hoped for, the factors that caused Sandro's new feelings on the subject to change will just continue to push for more. The best bet is to remind FD of all the reasons not to accept that open needs to be preserved, or conserved in the first place.

Other than that, why not offer up the better idea of paying for PP aligned PvP encounters directly? We know from where the perceived imbalance stems from, PvP Combat. It being such a focused notion, why not focus a solution just as finely?

Already proposed it: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=238428

 

[Boomer Kay]

If the changes to open's merit garnering potential are significant enough, it would alter the balance of power in PP depending on which powers are able to most effectively take advantage of the buff.
If he's working for power A, and Power B is able to utilize the buff more effectively, for what ever reason, his game-play is effected.
Not by a whole lot, but just pointing out that solo =/= vacuum.

Well, if you do limit yourself to the solo experience and avoid reddits, you do not have much of a clue about the things that go on.
You ship your stuff from A to B or C or shoot some NPC ships depending on any decision that's up to you (which might or might not help or hurt your power .. there's really not that much easiely accessible in-game info regarding that) and that's about it. The universe around you moves magically on it's own.

It's a bit like looking for inbalance with the magnifying glass. If you go out of your way to find things to offend you, you will find them. Life's full of repetitive PoIs.

 

[GilliganTX]

Well, if you do limit yourself to the solo experience and avoid reddits, you do not have much of a clue about the things that go on.
You ship your stuff from A to B or C or shoot some NPC ships depending on any decision that's up to you (which might or might not help or hurt your power .. there's really not that much easiely accessible in-game info regarding that) and that's about it. The universe around you moves magically on it's own.

I agree that is a likely scenario, I just try to avoid absolutes.

And because I'm a busy body I like to make sure everyone else avoids absolutes as well.

It's a bit like looking for inbalance with the magnifying glass. If you go out of your way to find things to offend you, you will find them. Life's full of repetitive PoIs.

I agree.

 

[Boomer Kay]

I agree that is a likely scenario, I just try to avoid absolutes.

And because I'm a busy body I like to make sure everyone else avoids absolutes as well.

Well, I did mention that I'm ex-roman-catholic. Speaking in infallible absolutes is something you get taught there.

"Thou shalt not desire thy neighbor's donkey or wife"

... 3000 years later and we still have people asking "in exactly that order? donkey first? desiring his wife is like 50% less of a sin? how many years in hell, if she's hella cute? what about his grass, can I desire his grass?"

ok, enough cheesy analogies.

 

[DaveB]

This is getting silly.

I've been in serious fights IRL. I've also faced fellow martial artists in sparring sessions where we fully expected to be hurting afterwards. This is a game. There is no parallel. It doesn't even rise to the level of the sparring session.

 

[GluttonyFang]

This is getting silly.

I've been in serious fights IRL. I've also faced fellow martial artists in sparring sessions where we fully expected to be hurting afterwards. This is a game. There is no parallel. It doesn't even rise to the level of the sparring session.

Sorry but I really don't see the parallel.

 

[UnicycleBloke]

>> but if you come to ED and expect catering exclusively to PvE

Did I say that? Nope.

 

[Atrer]

What would prevent a player from sitting in a station and gathering a hold full of PP items in open and then leaving the station getting 10 kilometers out then switching to solo/group for the SC part of the trip and then dropping in to the receiving station and switching back to open before docking? How is that going to be prevented?
I realize that FD desperately wants to believe that the PvP ultra minority will not destroy ED. If FD could actually make that happen it would be the FIRST time. The PvP crowd goes from game to game leaving only destruction in their wake and yet somehow it is NEVER their fault that a game fails. The track record of catering to the PvP crowd from UO to the present shows only failure.

 

[GilliganTX]

What would prevent a player from sitting in a station and gathering a hold full of PP items in open and then leaving the station getting 10 kilometers out then switching to solo/group for the SC part of the trip and then dropping in to the receiving station and switching back to open before docking? How is that going to be prevented? I realize that FD desperately wants to believe that the PvP ultra minority

Been covered at least 3 separate times in here.


Much like the Titanblack CG in the past, FD can flag items to be mode specific.

 

[Ian Skippy]

What would prevent a player from sitting in a station and gathering a hold full of PP items in open and then leaving the station getting 10 kilometers out then switching to solo/group for the SC part of the trip and then dropping in to the receiving station and switching back to open before docking? How is that going to be prevented?

By changing a variable if you switch modes after accepting cargo. I think we fixed this in 1958.

 

[Evolved]

This argument is again, flawed. You play solo exclusively doesn't mean the game should revolve around solo exclusively. You made a choice not to be bothered by player opposition, nothing is wrong with that, but then nothing is wrong with people asking for compensation when being opposed by players directly in combative PvP in a competitive mechanic.

You aren't championing for fairness, you are disregarding other people's play styles.

And the Open players did not pay a fair price?

When there is a rational inventive to betray one's preferred mode of play just to gain even ground in a competitive mechanic, the one that should be compensated is the said type of players. By your thinking, Open play players should have walked across the road to FD's office and gave them the finger a long time ago since PP's implementation, since there's no rational reason for being opposed in Open when private and solo have competitive edge in a competitive mechanic due to the lack of direct player opposition and disruption.

This argument is again, flawed. Your choice to play in open doesn't mean that the game should revolve around your personal choice to play in that mode. You made the choice to be apart of an open environment where it's possible to be bothered by player opposition in any activity that you perform, including PP. Why should you get to be a special snowflake and get bonuses for that choice? The modes have been the same all along, PP didn't change anything. Introducing a bias towards one mode does change things.

Yet it's acceptable to force solo players into open to get that artificial bonus to PP influence. You're advocating for the very thing you're insisting is wrong, and doing it in an artificial manner beyond inherent game mode differences. Open players are getting exactly what they paid for. Solo's "benefits" in PP come from the game mode itself, not from some generic artificial bonus, that's why the whole argument is bogus. The "drawback" for PP in open, is exactly the same as the drawback for any single other activity in open, which is a choice you made when you clicked on open in the start menu. PP is player -> environment <- player. The only thing even remotely "PVP" about PP is the fact that you have a chance in open of blowing someone up, which can slow down how fast they can boost some number on an arbitrary NPC chart. If PP involved 2 player factions fighting each other, had benefits for blowing each other up, had some kind of battle arena for combat etc. then sure, call it PVP. Until then, you've got 2 sets of player groups competing against NPC's in a race, which is barely "PVP" in spirit, much less in reality.

 

[Nim Rodel]

PP is player -> environment <- player. The only thing even remotely "PVP" about PP is the fact that you have a chance in open of blowing someone up, which can slow down how fast they can boost some number on an arbitrary NPC chart. If PP involved 2 player factions fighting each other, had benefits for blowing each other up, had some kind of battle arena for combat etc. then sure, call it PVP. Until then, you've got 2 sets of player groups competing against NPC's in a race, which is barely "PVP" in spirit, much less in reality.

I'm gonna go ahead and point you in the direction of this post:

However, there are a few aspects of the game that are specifically aimed at utilising the fact that the game has multiplayer facets, one of these is Powerplay.

Powerplay is unique in that it explicitly *enforces* adversarial multiplayer by making Commanders choose sides. You are no longer fighting against the vagaries of the galaxy; you are competing directly with Commanders pledged to opposing powers.

In addition, Powerplay has rules to handle direct Commander-Commander confrontation. Indeed, this is the core conceit: the system encourages justifiable piracy and homicide for a higher purpose. It’s my belief that Powerplay will always be at its best when opposing Commanders interact directly, whether in an expansion conflict zone or through interdiction.

So it feels natural (to me) to look at ways to encourage Commanders to use Open Play. However, It’s also fairly clear that human opposition is potentially, and generally speaking, much more of a significant threat than NPCs.

...snip...

So what would an Open Play Success bonus actually achieve? The idea is that it’s a reward for taking the additional risk, whether the risk actually manifests or not.

If you care about Powerplay, and care that you power does well in it, then playing in Open is a “force multiplier” for your Power’s strength.

...snip...

If you already play in Open then you could treat this bonus as a reward for working with the game to make it the best it can be for all involved.

So yeah, whatever your opinion may be, the Lead Designer of the game thinks that PP is PVP.

Nim

 

[Ian Skippy]

Yet it's acceptable to force solo players into open to get that artificial bonus to PP influence.

You are not being forced, so stop pretending you are a victim of a some horrible crime. They could 'force' you by removing PP from solo, or solo mode entirely altogether. Saying silly things like a small bonus to one part of one aspect of the game 'forces' you to go to Open is a quick way to get ignored by any devs browsing this topic for honest feedback. As for the rest of your opinion, you basically are just saying the devs are wrong about what powerpoint is and should be. Its not really a solid foundation for constructive feedback either.

 

[GluttonyFang]

Welp, these guys handled the argument for me, so I'm not going to repeat their points.

Just going to quote this and leave it here on top of everything covered:

The advantage can't be perceived when it is a clear rational incentive to enter private and solo, there is no argument around it.

Players that like to play with other players competitively and cooperative has to enter solo/private to gain an edge that bars them from enjoying an uncontrolled environment which they deem to be a fun place to play the PP mechanic.

Competitive Edge [Yes]

Preferred Environment [No]

Players that like to play by themselves simply play in solo/private that has an edge and pertains to their preferred playstyle to play the PP mechanic.


Competitive Edge [Yes]

Preferred Environment [Yes]

Do you not see what is wrong here when devs make it clear that PP is a competitive mechanic and there should be an equal incentive in entering all modes to participate in PP?

 

[nosleepdemon]

I think a bonus for open play would really add to power play, it seems a little fruitless when you know someone in solo can do whatever you want, even if the reality is that in open, instancing may still stop you frim interacting with them.

 

[Dave1235]

Just sit back and enjoy the read.

I'm sure the S.O.G thread will be popular again one day.

Maybe they should offer double rep points in sog thread or turn off rep in this thread to entice people back to sog.

Perhaps we need assurances from fd that they wont first "all threads are equal" lol

 

[MyNamesLawless]

I think it has to be said, most people that advocate penalising solo/private play, do so only because they want more people to shoot down, and nothing more noble than that.... i could be wrong, but thats my take.

 

[bitstorm]

Nice necro, and with a sweeping generalization too.

Please lock.

 

[OgreWookie]

You can still control who you interact with in Group.

You can in Open too, just stick all players from opposing powers in your banned list, it might take a while but it should be possible to make Open just like Group.

 

[GluttonyFang]

You can in Open too, just stick all players from opposing powers in your banned list, it might take a while but it should be possible to make Open just like Group.

Do you really think that is realistic in comparison to the private group mode? Where am I going to gather the data of who is in what power and how do I update the list regularly enough to simulate anything close to the private group function? Not to mention that blocking a player in the friend function doesn't make them vanish absolutely, they're just placed in lower priority in terms of instancing, so no, that doesn't make sense.