I do hope Season 2 helps Piracy - Today's experience just confirms to me it doesn't work very well...

You can put all the makeup you want on that pig son, it's still a pig.

Or the person that told you its a pig is mistaken ;)

Insisting that you want players to be your victim means you want more than the NPC threshold of profit, anything else is merely conjecture don't put words into peoples mouth. All the most successful pirates target players, it isn't because they are players its because players are the only group that carry anything of value in sufficient numbers to be worth going after.

The CoD/BF analysis makes perfect sense, you don't play those to grief your opponents, you don't pirate in ED to grief your target, you pirate to make a profit by theft - that may cause grief, but grief is not the purpose (much like It might cause grief that you died in BF :( my kill streak... oh no)
 
Or the person that told you its a pig is mistaken ;)

Insisting that you want players to be your victim means you want more than the NPC threshold of profit, anything else is merely conjecture don't put words into peoples mouth. All the most successful pirates target players, it isn't because they are players its because players are the only group that carry anything of value in sufficient numbers to be worth going after.

The CoD/BF analysis makes perfect sense, you don't play those to grief your opponents, you don't pirate in ED to grief your target, you pirate to make a profit by theft - that may cause grief, but grief is not the purpose (much like It might cause grief that you died in BF :( my kill streak... oh no)

There's no mistake, that's a pig, the dress you added to the makeup doesn't change that at all.

PvP centric games are meant to be played with and against other players, that's their point after all, direct competition with another human being. Griefers do exist in those as well you know, they typically teamkill or find other methods of messing with their teammates instead of going after the opposing team, usually, some games do allow them to grief the opposing team as well(spawn camping in particular can be used that way). Playing the game as it is designed, to fight and kill other humans on the opposing team, is not griefing, anymore than playing football(either one) and winning is griefing.

This game, PvP isn't prohibited, and that's about all the game design has in place for PvP, it's not prohibited. It's imbalanced to hell and back, we're not actively mean to face off with each other on a constant basis, per David and FD, repeatedly, PvP is mean to be rare and meaningful. Pirates who insist on having human victims want PvP to be commonplace and meaningless, which is against the game design and ideals.

And that whole 'players are the only victims with cargo worth taking' is total , I made as much pirating NPCs as I did res/cz farming, 3-5m/hr. Pirates who only hunt humans don't make that much, that's one of their big complaints, piracy doesn't pay! It does, if you actually PIRATE and not just look for humans to grief in one form or another, because NPCs do carry cargo, lots of them do, so it's quite profitable to pirate them.

Pirates do NOT need human victims, that's a lie, flat out, they demand human victims for 1 reason only, and it ain't to show off their RP skills.
 
And that whole 'players are the only victims with cargo worth taking' is total , I made as much pirating NPCs as I did res/cz farming, 3-5m/hr. Pirates who only hunt humans don't make that much, that's one of their big complaints, piracy doesn't pay! It does, if you actually PIRATE and not just look for humans to grief in one form or another, because NPCs do carry cargo, lots of them do, so it's quite profitable to pirate them.

Pirates do NOT need human victims, that's a lie, flat out, they demand human victims for 1 reason only, and it ain't to show off their RP skills.

You literally add so much description to something you obviously know nothing about its unbelievable :p

make me a video of making 3mil/hr off NPC's and i'll admit your right but I think you'll struggle to make 1, you better hope that they made grain 20x more expensive! I might even do it myself i won't even take the stuff, I don't think If i tally the contents of their inventory for an hour i'll reach 3mil.
 
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Restricting HRPs to 1 wouldn't do anything but change the meta again, which would still leave PvE players at a disadvantage, especially the traders, many of whom don't use shields so they can carry more cargo, they don't use hull upgrades because it kills jump range, and they don't use HRPs because it it would cost them cargo space. So what would change in the PvE build vs PvP build exchange? Nothing. What else can you expect if you are flying a cargo ship or multipurpose and the attacker is in a combat ship except that the combat ship has all the advantages in combat? 1.5/2.0 put to bed the multipurpose ships can do EVERYTHING better foolishness finally, they can't, especially not combat. I'm in an Anaconda, if you can't hit my power plant, you need to turn your chair around and face the screen instead of the wall, same goes for the Python, they are not good for PvP anymore. Lots of big guns, but no ability to stand and deliver the damage those big guns put out now.

Or maybe you'd have them make all ships equally viable in all roles, only some have limited cargo space for...what...grins and giggles? It really isn't that easy to do what you want, if it was, it would have been done over a decade ago, but everyone still trying to find that magic balance mechanic because it ain't that easy to do unless EVERYONE uses the exact same things without any deviation. Then you've got to put everyone on the exact same hardware with the exact same connection so that only true skill matters. Over a decade, still ain't happened, it might not be as easy as you think, ya think?




Last time I did any pirating, shooting out a power plant meant the target went boom, so that wasn't a thing I did. I would take out drives or the FSD, which ever was easier to hit, while scanning the target. I never got to actually do that with a human player however, every single one of them I interdicted logged on me, without fail, despite me telling them before I interdicted them that I was just after cargo, a few flat out CLed during the interdiction itself. I didn't even bother reporting any of them, what's the point? NPCs paid well enough, and not a single one ever logged on me.

Pirates do NOT need other players to be pirates, I made as much pirating NPCs as I did farming CZ's and Res's, 3-5m an hour, that cargo scanner came in handy for that, someone suggested it might work like the prospector drone and increase cargo, no idea, but I did well enough that I could afford to get in an Asp in 2 weeks after I started and have it A rated within another week, and into a Clipper within a few weeks after that. A rating THAT took a bit longer, and I went and bit off more than I could chew while drinking one night and...logged in the next day in my brand new used Sidey...done that a few times now, drinking and Elite tends to do that to me.

When a Meta is as OP as it is between those who wish to play as a trader and those who are only interested in killing other players then there is an imbalance. The problem with the meta does not lie with the trader but the aggressor. Even if a trader hrp's it's a lose / lose. The aggressor wins / wins, especially those only interested in killing other players.
The only ppl who can fix such things are the Dev's and they will or they won't. Whatever they decide will probably throw this game down one alley or another. By that I mean players who want to trade go to Solo because they can't survive. It really is that bad. Running shieldless is not a real option these days unless you hrp and sr.
The argument that there is always a Meta is valid but to what degree that meta affects the game is really the main question.
Just because the ideal of a meta exists does not mean I'm just not gonna sit here and let it ruin the game for a great many players who aren't interested in the same, just to cater for those who only want to annoy other players...because that's what they do. Like it or not.
Meta's get nerfed, any OP gun in the BF series got nerfed, it's just how it works. It didn't stop players leaving in droves because of such things but some came back when it was fixed or the server in question banned it until EA / Dice fixed it.
It hurt the game's population though.
I'm generally talking about the hrp stacking. A ship solely dedicated to killing other NPC's / players has a massive advantage, this affects all modes.
How you are not seeing this befuddles me.

As to your next point:

The main problem is with the combat ships, not traders. They don't need to have cargo because they can stack one thing which has no cost. That's the imbalance right there. Power concerns when a HRP takes how much power to run? Are you seeing it now?
It's why there are rail boats which any ship will struggle with, let alone the smaller one's so do you see the damage it is causing to the game and to Open in particular yet? And ppl wonder why they have no targets.
Piracy can't even happen because their loadouts kill smaller ships, it's all they can do.
It breaks the game and funnels it down to just killing other players and that denies the victims options on how they want to play the game...so they walk away.
They may drop to Solo, if they are aware if such things because "some" Open players are self-serving egotistical idiots with no concerns except their own. There are exceptions but not many and certainly not enough.
GG huh?
And now ppl want Solo nerfed by rewarding Open better (not the Dev's, they just threw the idea out there), seems it's not enough for some to force players out of one of the viable games modes available.
They want FD to penalise them further.

If you want me offer solutions here's one:
Nerf the stacking of hrp's and scb's. One per ship, pick the slot. Fill up the rest of it with other things that may create more options regarding your gameplay.
This would affect both modes so I don't expect it to be popular but it needed said.

If FD starts reacting to problems caused by cheating / exploiters then the only players who will suffer will be those who aren't cheating or exploiting.
And that ain't good.
 
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And that whole 'players are the only victims with cargo worth taking' is total , I made as much pirating NPCs as I did res/cz farming, 3-5m/hr. Pirates who only hunt humans don't make that much, that's one of their big complaints, piracy doesn't pay! It does, if you actually PIRATE and not just look for humans to grief in one form or another, because NPCs do carry cargo, lots of them do, so it's quite profitable to pirate them.

Pirates do NOT need human victims, that's a lie, flat out, they demand human victims for 1 reason only, and it ain't to show off their RP skills.

Wait, what?

I pirate humans because...

a. They're challenging
b. There's an art to them
c. They can communicate
d. It can often end peacefully without shots fired

The last thing I'm trying to do when I pirate human players is grief them. Please don't make blanket statements that paint all of us pure PvP pirates as griefers--i'm anything but.
 
Wait, what?

I pirate humans because...

a. They're challenging
b. There's an art to them
c. They can communicate
d. It can often end peacefully without shots fired

The last thing I'm trying to do when I pirate human players is grief them. Please don't make blanket statements that paint all of us pure PvP pirates as griefers--i'm anything but.

From his argument it sounds like all piracy is griefing regardless of how it's done...

...which I just don't get. All piracy is a CRIME, yes, (in game) but piracy is one of the many job possibilities in the game, and just because you're applying it to other player shouldn't be seen as anti-social or negative or somehow emotionally scarring by default.

I only play open and I never play pirates. I hate griefers with a passion, but some of my best experiences have been with pirates, escaping them, surrendering to them, or getting shot up by them. So the earlier posts I saw from Kristov confuse me.
 
From his argument it sounds like all piracy is griefing regardless of how it's done...

...which I just don't get. All piracy is a CRIME, yes, (in game) but piracy is one of the many job possibilities in the game, and just because you're applying it to other player shouldn't be seen as anti-social or negative or somehow emotionally scarring by default.

I only play open and I never play pirates. I hate griefers with a passion, but some of my best experiences have been with pirates, escaping them, surrendering to them, or getting shot up by them. So the earlier posts I saw from Kristov confuse me.

It's like we're dealing with a different person lately.
 
Logging out of the game without using the ingame menu options do to so. Using Alt-F4, Task Manager, the power button, pulling your ethernet cable or killing your wifi, so that you suddenly exit the game and can't be hurt. Against the rules, per Frontier, and if reported, you can be punished for that, which means being placed on the Shadow server, where all the other rule breakers are put, for a certain amount of time.

You forgot logging out using the menu, this also is classed as logging. I have never partaken in piracy in this game willingly and probably never will (PVE isn't rewarding enough for my time spent in game and PVP, well I actually did try piracy in eve a long time ago but found out it wasn't for me, when I felt so guilty about blowing people up, I would transfer isk to their accounts to cover the cost of their loss).

Saying that, I probably know more about piracy in this game than you do, judging by your posts and your complete lack of understanding anything outside your very limited tunnel vision of what pirating should and shouldn't be within ED
 
perhaps you could have flashed your lights at him??
Then again. Pirates could go to the link in my signature box.. and learn how to pirate with out having to kill everything they stop...
 
All piracy is a CRIME, yes, (in game) but piracy is one of the many job possibilities in the game, and just because you're applying it to other player shouldn't be seen as anti-social or negative or somehow emotionally scarring by default.

The game promised a career of piracy and it promised "rare, meaningfull PvP encounters".
If one thinks, you can have a PvP piracy career that is just as (financially) viable as any PvE activity, it's just not going to work. Full Stop.

The game can spawn endless hordes of NPCs for you and tweak their cargo to be a "profitable piracy career", but it can not make other players play with you. It can force players into PvP situations they don't want, but it just risks alianating them, leading to a completely useless piracy career.
 
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perhaps you could have flashed your lights at him??
Then again. Pirates could go to the link in my signature box.. and learn how to pirate with out having to kill everything they stop...

> Skips to the player pirating part.

> Sees him interdict a newbie in LHS 3447 (of all places)

> ''Real pirate''

Amazing.

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The game promised a career of piracy and it promised "rare, meaningfull PvP encounters".
If one thinks, you can have a PvP piracy career that is just as (financially) viable as any PvE activity, it's just not going to work. Full Stop.

The game can spawn endless hordes of NPCs for you and tweak their cargo to be a "profitable piracy career", but it can not make other players play with you. It can force players into PvP situations they don't want, but it just risks alianating them, leading to a completely useless piracy career.

Actually yea they could. They could make cargo stolen from players worth more (they kinda a tad bit already do it if the trader abandons the cargo when jettisoning it).

But not saying they should but it definetly does need an upgrade. They could do it like that just as a ''Sorry that you have to deal with these.. people'' and it might be the easiest way to make it work.
 
> Skips to the player pirating part.

> Sees him interdict a newbie in LHS 3447 (of all places)

> ''Real pirate''

Amazing.

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Actually yea they could. They could make cargo stolen from players worth more (they kinda a tad bit already do it if the trader abandons the cargo when jettisoning it).

But not saying they should but it definetly does need an upgrade. They could do it like that just as a ''Sorry that you have to deal with these.. people'' and it might be the easiest way to make it work.

Yep, nothing proves your superior pirating credentials like interdicting Harmless Sidewinders in a noob system
 
Actually yea they could. They could make cargo stolen from players worth more (they kinda a tad bit already do it if the trader abandons the cargo when jettisoning it).

Highly exploitable, since noone is checking if you really pirate or just swap cargo with a friend.
Unfortunately, every cheesy machanic in the game to get quick credits seems to be used mercilessly and then defended as "not fixed yet, must be intended gameplay", so I'm not very keen on adding more.
Told ya that "smart people" are ruining the game for everyone. :p
 
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Highly exploitable, since noone is checking if you really pirate or just swap cargo with a friend.
Unfortunately, every cheesy machanic in the game to get quick credits seems to be used mercilessly and then defended as "not fixed yet, must be intented gameplay", so I'm not very keen on adding more.
Told ya that "smart people" are ruining the game for everyone. :p

Right.. well it doesn't have to be a lot more and to make a big profit you would have to sell a lot of it. Even a 2.000cr bonus when pirating a player (making Imperial slaves 18k) would make some difference but again it would be tedious to do so would the difference be worth it? They could also go on percentages of the item that's being pirated, or they could make stolen goods not needed to be sold at a black market in a god damn anarchy system..
 
Highly exploitable, since noone is checking if you really pirate or just swap cargo with a friend.
Unfortunately, every cheesy machanic in the game to get quick credits seems to be used mercilessly and then defended as "not fixed yet, must be intended gameplay", so I'm not very keen on adding more.
Told ya that "smart people" are ruining the game for everyone. :p

And this is also why cargo insurance will never work.
I insure my 400T of Painite, my friend comes along and 'pirates' me. He gets 400T of Painite, I get the insurance. We both win and have effectively doubled the profit
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
And this is also why cargo insurance will never work.
I insure my 400T of Painite, my friend comes along and 'pirates' me. He gets 400T of Painite, I get the insurance. We both win and have effectively doubled the profit

.... unless cargo insurance only paid out on cargo in the hold when the ship was destroyed.
 
And this is also why cargo insurance will never work.
I insure my 400T of Painite, my friend comes along and 'pirates' me. He gets 400T of Painite, I get the insurance. We both win and have effectively doubled the profit

Oh god, I thought that would only work if the cargo was destroyed.. I never thought about it like that probably because it's so dumb.
 
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