A Guide to Minor Factions and the Background Sim

Abil Midena

Abil Midena
goemon said:
i didn't run any tests on major faction bounties, beside testing that the crime report take those into account correctly. simply for the reason my testing system (low pop, only 2 factions, only one station) has no faction with major faction allegiance. so, feel free to test!

as you can see from my chart, the effect of killing ships influence drop is tiny compared to the effect of a single bounty claim.

in the test system the relation was around 30:1, e.g. for killing 30 ships of a faction, you'd need to do 1 bountie-claim transaction to even the influence loss. i'm sure this number is that high, because influence of the controlling faction is high (normally above 80%), and as others have found out it is hard to influence minor factions with high influence (diminishing return).

but however this is on your system, i think it is safe to say that influence gain from single bounty-transaction is always higher than influence loss/gain from a single ship kill. so shooting wanted ships of all other faction and cashing in only "your" bounties, as often as possible, should raise your influence massively.

really bad news for anarchistic minor factions, though. those don't give out bountie claims.
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Interesting. I guess the dev chart that shows "murder" at -5 inf is referring to killing non wanted ships. Otherwise it would contradict what you're saying. So...

To help Faction A:
Kill non wanted ships, but not Faction A ships. Where the inf lost by other factions goes is somewhat uncontrollable in systems with 3 or more factions.
Kill wanted ships of other factions, and only cash in bounties paid by Faction A.

To hurt Faction A:
Kill non wanted Faction A ships.
Kill any wanted ships, but do not cash in bounties paid by Faction A.

Finally, for INF, it doesn't matter where in the system you cash in the bounties, only the faction paying the bounty matters.
For REP, you gain rep with the faction that controls the station where you turn in the bounties.
 

Bomba Luigi

Bomba Luigi
Have now for the first Time started to actually try something with the BGS, I mean I did a lot of missions and stuff but never cared much to change anything. But my "Home"-Faction has expanded here and there over time so I did pick one of those system they expanded to and have now started to push around influence. They where at 20something% when I started and the controlling faction at 60%, now I got them to 40% and 44%.
It goes suprisingly well, there arent really any other players of note I can at most see 2 or 3 other ships that are not me in the Traffic Report, its interessting to see how much one player can do on his own. Alltough I don't have much of clue what I'm doing, I will just push my faction more and find out where that leads to later ^^
 

CMDR pollycough

CMDR pollycough
Bomba Luigi said:
Have now for the first Time started to actually try something with the BGS, I mean I did a lot of missions and stuff but never cared much to change anything. But my "Home"-Faction has expanded here and there over time so I did pick one of those system they expanded to and have now started to push around influence. They where at 20something% when I started and the controlling faction at 60%, now I got them to 40% and 44%.
It goes suprisingly well, there arent really any other players of note I can at most see 2 or 3 other ships that are not me in the Traffic Report, its interessting to see how much one player can do on his own. Alltough I don't have much of clue what I'm doing, I will just push my faction more and find out where that leads to later ^^
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At 40 and 44 you might just have a war/civil war pending, check in right panel under system status.
 

Saool

Saool
I have a further question for those in the know:

In our system we are about to enter the third back to back Civil-War. Regardless of who wins each war, and regardless of what the percentages are at the start and end, it always re-sets both parties to 44% and triggers a new war. Endlessly.

In the first war, we hit a hidden win condition at it ignored 24 hours of activity and reset to 44%. In war 2 some other locals decided they did not want us to progress and they have more pilots, so we lost, now it reset to 44% again and we will lost this third war and our last station. There is just no way to win. Win or lose: 44% and another war. If numbers of pilots did not beat us, attrition and boredom would.

Has anyone else seen the endless resetting on the influence to equal amounts and endless back to back wars?
 

goemon

goemon
Abil Midena said:
Interesting. I guess the dev chart that shows "murder" at -5 inf is referring to killing non wanted ships. Otherwise it would contradict what you're saying. So...
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i was originally wondering about the low impact my ship-kills had in that system,too.i basically took a number, which i could easily reproduce everyday for a week in a single session without rearming.

my test wasn't set up for testing this, and there might a lot of reasons, why MB's numbers (-5 effect on influence for "Murder" and +2 for bounty hunting) looks wrong:

. it might be the case, as you wrote, that "murder" in that list refers to killing unwanted ships. i personally don't think so, though.

- it might be, that killing ships was nerfed in its influence aspects, to get rid of the constant civil wars due to powerplay.

- it might be, that there is a single commander cap or dimishing return for each "action", e.g. i couldn't get more effect with killing more ships much earlier, but never hit the cap with bounty-transactions

- anyway it is hard to say, which "unit" represents 1 in that table. e.g. - what is 1 trade? what is 1 bounty hunting?

... my test wasn't set up for that, system was simply chosen for easy to track bounty hunting effects.

if anybody gets contradictionary results, please let me know!

I'm tempted to run more tests in that system, probably after nuking the controlling factions influence, so the two factions are more even, and easier to influence. or to chose a bunch of fitting systems, to run several tests at once.

but now I'm at hollidays, both RL and ingame :)
 

dynamicbob

Banned
D
have their been any dev comments from the one dev who works on the background sim working away in the back room at the back of the dungeon who never posts on the forum and is kept in the dark about any 2.1 enhacements, or are these all going to be black box trust us its working as intended ( though there will be 1001 bugs) that no one can figure out because of secrecy provisions.

I live in hope that we get some very serious enhancmenets going forward to the background sim and minor factions in general
 

Player2

Player2
dynamicbob said:
have their been any dev comments from the one dev who works on the background sim working away in the back room at the back of the dungeon who never posts on the forum and is kept in the dark about any 2.1 enhacements, or are these all going to be black box trust us its working as intended ( though there will be 1001 bugs) that no one can figure out because of secrecy provisions.

I live in hope that we get some very serious enhancmenets going forward to the background sim and minor factions in general
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He has no time for that... He is counting.

turk_double.jpg

;)
 

Schlack

S
Saool, influence always equalises when cw pending triggers. Although it's pretty weird that it always seems to do so a 44%. Is it exactly 44% each time?

Also there is a. Very short cool down period for conflicts
Actions taken the previous tick attempting to fight the war may be driving things back to parity.
 

jimbeau1571

J
Schlack said:
Saool, influence always equalises when cw pending triggers. Although it's pretty weird that it always seems to do so a 44%. Is it exactly 44% each time?

Also there is a. Very short cool down period for conflicts
Actions taken the previous tick attempting to fight the war may be driving things back to parity.
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Further more, as a CW only needs 5% to be won/lost it could be quickly put back to pending depending on actions in cooldown
 

Cmdr Lassan

C
Some help on finding the system you have expanded to?

This is in no way something which stands up to be a rule or anything but it worked for our last three expansions. The last two systems, we expanded to, i found within the first try, the first with the second try. Maybe we were lucky, maybe not.

I hope it does work for you guys, too. Sorry if i've awoken false hope if it doesn't work for you.

Everytime we have an expansion we search for the system from which another minor faction has most recently expanded into one of our systems. If it is not to be found there, we expand the search to every system, a minor faction present in one of our systems originates from.

Somehow, there always seems to be a connection between the systems, we expand to and the systems other minor factions expand to. From nearly every system we have expanded to, there is one of the minor factions in one of our systems, not neccessarily the direct opposite system, eg. our faction A has expanded into systems B and C, a faction from system B could now have expanded into system A but not neccessarily. It could also be found in system C. This way a net with possible expansions shows up.
And they are no systems with very few factions in there, either. It seems as if the one faction of the "net of connected factions/ systems" is forced into this "net".
There would have been systems with eg 3 present factions, available but the connected faction has expanded into a system with 7 present factions, because our faction or another faction of this "net" is to be found there.
And it's not as if we forced them out of their system. They sometimes expanded into one of our systems, before our expansion became pending.

I have to add that we live in a quite populated area of space, that's why i bother to even post. If you are in a scarcely popupated area of space, it would seem logical that this occurs because of lack of possible systems.

I hope this is not complete nonsense, in general or too hard to understand because of my lack of linguistic skills in a foreign language.
Apologies in advance, if it doesn't hold up to any serious testing or is already common sense.

Greetings from TDA and good luck
 

TomoRosso

T
Abil Midena said:
Also, what about turning in Major faction (Fed/Emp/All) bounties? I had guessed that if I turn them in at a station that has the same affiliation, that minor faction would gain inf. In this way, Ind factions are screwed.
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In every test I have done with Major Faction vouchers it helps the faction that owns the station you cash them at regardless of allegiance, I have used this to good effect to boost the influence of an independent faction in one system with major faction vouchers earned in separate system.
 

goemon

goemon
TomoRosso said:
In every test I have done with Major Faction vouchers it helps the faction that owns the station you cash them at regardless of allegiance, I have used this to good effect to boost the influence of an independent faction in one system with major faction vouchers earned in separate system.
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interesting. thanks for sharing!
 

jimbeau1571

J
Speaking of war, I am in a system with no CZ's. After reducing the opponent with 'its faction only' BHunting and getting them to 1% and my faction to 12%, I thought I was stuck in an unwinable situation. Wrong.
Through doing missions of any type, I have raised my faction to 15.4%, and hope to win the war on today's tick, or at worst tomorrow's.

So if you find yourself with no CZ's, it's not the end, it just takes a lot more work.

Missions of ANY type remember, not just combat.
 

Walter2

Walter2
Bomba Luigi said:
Good to know, thanks!

Guess I will leave the system as it is for those 3 Days, I can need a bit of vacation before the war :D
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Alternatively, you could spend the time trying to raise the influence level of your favoured faction by doing missions. This will give your FF a head start when conflict begins (if there isn't anyone else trying to do the same for the opposition). With favourable rolls of the RNG dice, you can win a war without firing a shot.

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HecklerThrob said:
Hello CMDRs,

I have another question : how to influence the creation of a black market in a specific station ?

Thank you in advance for your good advices.

o7
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According to DB, black markets are created when a system changes Allegiance. If I ever find the source of that information (it's buried somewhere in this thread: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=221826) I'll post an update.
 
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goemon

goemon
Walter2 said:
Alternatively, you could spend the time trying to raise the influence level of your favoured faction by doing missions. This will give your FF a head start when conflict begins (if there isn't anyone else trying to do the same for the opposition). With favourable rolls of the RNG dice, you can win a war without firing a shot.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -



According to DB, black markets are created when a system changes Allegiance. If I ever find the source of that information (it's buried somewhere in this thread: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=221826) I'll post an update.
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here is MB's post: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=221826&p=3415171&viewfull=1#post3415171

Michael Brookes said:
I've checked into it and black markets can be added or removed by a change in minor faction ownership.

Michael
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--- now one would need to know which kind of change gets black markets...
 
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