Great New Article About Elite Dangerous

[Chongo]

Love how SDC thinks that without their sorry asses elite dangerous would die.
How many times have we heard that?

I think a better understanding comes from the quote in the article:

'They could ban all of SDC and be done with it. And the game would probably sit up well for another couple of months. PvP would fall apart. And then there would be a massive influx of people with the 2.1 update. There would be new PvPers. And with it it would bring people like us. And then we'll go around in circles again. Then more people will get banned. Then more people will come in. And then more people would get banned.'

Poorly thought out reactions/ solutions can have cyclical results. I can appreciate the merit in this comment.

It's sad the community is so polarized. The structure of things has really strengthened the poles. When someone has their first run in with one of the decent pvp groups, and they're likely kind of twisted up about it after dying - their emotional response is going to lead them in a couple of directions. The response that has led me to find a great deal more fun in the game is to shake it off, watch what these groups do, figure it out, learn to do it yourself (in the form of piloting skills, death avoidance, understanding tactics, etc - not just anchoring up on someone in eravate as I know the aforementioned poles will conclusion jump that comment to), practice, and then look forward to running into them. I absolutely love running into SDC now. Or guys like Nightshady, Na'Qan, etc. You have a good fight and often notice/learn something new. It's great! But the structure of the game really reinforces a different response: Avoid that twisted up feeling because you don't like it at first, and let yourself be thrust 100% toward the opposite pole - hello Mobius. It's just too easy an emotional reaction and the comfortable embrace of a pve group is ready to accept you at absolutely no cost to your impact in game. And I think it's partly this that is reinforcing the polarization and extreme reactions. Think about how the whole mobius infiltration played out. It literally reinforced one pole of the equation being totally passive aggressive in their safe haven with the station dumps. And they're giving each other high fives for being passive aggressive.

Think about it. Such structure is only going to push the poles further apart and create caustic extremes. Everyone should stop and think about where they lie on that spectrum.

 

[Brett C]

See Bret, here is why people get upset. Someone makes a comment slandering another group calling paying customers of yours "sorry asses" and you respond with a joke in agreement. While I received an infraction against my account for telling a combat logger he was "terrible".
Do you really wonder why there is descent in the pvp community? No it is not just SDC, PvPers at large feel they get put on the back burner.

You got an infraction from the moderation team for calling a new user on the forums 'a tool', and to top it off... with an insulting second segment to your post. The moderation action against that content was warranted and correct to the forum rules here: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=115239&p=1788185&viewfull=1#post1788185

Joking about is quite different from point-blank trolling people.

 

[Jaggedmallard]

It sounds silly but large companies do this to potential employee's. It's not about the game they played at all but about how they conducted themselves online and in social media.

Would you think it wise to employ an expert youtube troll in customer services compared to someone who is not?

They will of course be fine with the vast majority of employers but they can more or less forget working for global corp's.

They check for posting things about drugs, antisocial/illegal behaviour and similar things, they are not going to be looking for a potential employees gamer handle and if they do they aren't going to be upset that they civilly talked with a news site about their reasons for PVPing in the multiplayer mode of a game with PVP

 

[MarcusKross]

You got an infraction from the moderation team for calling a new user on the forums 'a tool', and to top it off... with an insulting second segment to your post. The moderation action against that content was warranted and correct to the forum rules here: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=115239&p=1788185&viewfull=1#post1788185

Joking about is quite different from point-blank trolling people.

You are trying to reason with a person who spouts profanity to his targets before moving in on them with his gank squad for no apparent reason.

 

[Privata]

LoL Funny article that some folks should hope vanishes from the internet...

Do 'students' know that large employers tend to look up peoples names these days before offering them a job... A certain little Wizard may have a hard time working at McDonald's after reading the article but then I don't think either side comes out smelling of Roses.

I dont think any employer will care about your actions in a video game unless it was pure abuse (like going out of your way to insult the person with words or stalk them ingame for weeks)
And this was not greifing it was just mischief... childish , rude but not against the rules and not evil , greifing is an actual physiological attack aimed to offend or hurt.

Because if I got fired from my job for my actions in a video game I would go to court...

Does that mean I can be fired for playing games like Carmageddon and making mods were kids can die in the elder scrolls?
Of course I dont ''''''''''''''greif'''''''''''''' (out of powerplay) but even if I did its non of there buisness as long as I follow the law to its fullest extent they should not fire anyone for such thing...

 

[Red Anders]

Mobius is doing more damage to the game segregating 20 THOUSAND people from playing Open than they are.

Just to point out an error, those 20,000 players are segregating themselves from open. It's their choice as individuals to play in another one of the three game modes.

Perhaps I misunderstood what you meant but it sounds as if you're somehow trying to hold Mobius responsible for those players not playing in open.

Firstly, I'm sure many of them do also play in open - the game doesn't force us to make a hard choice at any point.

Secondly, the ones that don't play in open are highly unlikely to have some kind of road to Damascus moment if Mobius packed in playing and closed his groups, they would be far more likely to just play in other private groups or solo. They are in Mobius now because open doesn't provide the experience that they want from the game.

You're saying that people choosing to play the game in the way they want, in one of the three modes provided by the game's developers, is damaging the game. That is nonsensical because playing in that mode is the game, just as playing in open and solo are.

 

[Demonseed]

I don't think groups like Mobius would exist if Elite Dangerous had proper in-game "guilds/clans/organizations". The "friends list" is fine for small groups of friends, but you can't expect 20,000 players to individually maintain a list of the other 19,999.

With proper in-game organization in open play, you'd be able to easily find other players to form wings for mutual protection. The big difference being, you'd have a pool of 20,000 mostly vetted players to ask from... "Any fighters near Lave than can run escort?". With a friend's list, the pool is much smaller, many of which probably won't be online or available.

The rule of thumb of MMO organizations for determining player saturation... Total number in the organization... since it's a large, unmanaged organization, one third of which are still actively playing the game (an organization that monitors player activity would kick players who have essentially "moved on" from the game)... one third of which are in a timezone where they're not currently sleeping or at work... a third of those are actually online playing and not doing other IRL things... a quarter or less of those in the area you are playing and/or willing to help you - probably worse since Elite Dangerous is so large a playing field. Using Mobius's number of 20,000, that gives you a very healthy pool of around 150-200 players.

My opinion, limit "Private Groups" to maybe 20 members at most, and implement in-game organization of players in Open. It levels the playing field.

 

[besieger]

It sounds silly but large companies do this to potential employee's. It's not about the game they played at all but about how they conducted themselves online and in social media.

Would you think it wise to employ an expert youtube troll in customer services compared to someone who is not?

They will of course be fine with the vast majority of employers but they can more or less forget working for global corp's.

Your right its not about the game I played at all, its about how I conducted my self, I was contacted by EuroGamer to do an "interview" about the state of the game and the new reiteration of the TOS, I put my argument across in civil manner... If anything I proved that I am able to conduct my self in a open forum quite well, Something employers look for.

Like I keep telling everyone again and again... I AM an ole IN game that plays by the rules, out of game I conduct my self like I would in a real life setting.


EDIT: I thought I typed "Mango" for a while... I am sure people can fill that in.

 

[Lestat]

This topic funny.

 

[Red Anders]

I don't think groups like Mobius would exist if Elite Dangerous had proper in-game "guilds/clans/organizations". The "friends list" is fine for small groups of friends, but you can't expect 20,000 players to individually maintain a list of the other 19,999.

With proper in-game organization in open play, you'd be able to easily find other players to form wings for mutual protection. The big difference being, you'd have a pool of 20,000 mostly vetted players to ask from... "Any fighters near Lave than can run escort?". With a friend's list, the pool is much smaller, many of which probably won't be online or available.

The rule of thumb of MMO organizations for determining player saturation... Total number in the organization... since it's a large, unmanaged organization, one third of which are still actively playing the game (an organization that monitors player activity would kick players who have essentially "moved on" from the game)... one third of which are in a timezone where they're not currently sleeping or at work... a third of those are actually online playing and not doing other IRL things... a quarter or less of those in the area you are playing and/or willing to help you - probably worse since Elite Dangerous is so large a playing field. Using Mobius's number of 20,000, that gives you a very healthy pool of around 150-200 players.

My opinion, limit "Private Groups" to maybe 20 members at most, and implement in-game organization of players in Open. It levels the playing field.

You really aren't getting it are you? A lot of these people simply do not want combat interaction with other players. It's not that they have trouble finding escorts, they just have no interest in it whatsoever.

Every time one of these threads happens, people pop up explaining how it could be 'fixed'. They fail to grasp that from the perspective of the players whose experience they're glibly 'fixing' it is simply not broken to begin with. More to the point, it's not broken from FD's perspective either.

 

[Axel Deathrage]

My opinion, limit "Private Groups" to maybe 20 members at most, and implement in-game organization of players in Open. It levels the playing field.

I like this idea, but maybe 20 is not enough for some. But 20k players in one group seems a bit too excessive in my opinion. So.. 100-1000? I don't know. Seems useless to really restrict it anyway.

Still, I wouldn't want to take anything away from anyone. I like that the game lets you play in three different ways.

For me it's just hard to relate to PVE only players since I'm not staying away from PVP. I play in Open because I never know what will happen and that's what makes it interesting for me. But I'm not here to tell to anyone how they want to play. If you're having fun, you're doing it right.

Edit: Okay I thought about this more. Providing fixes for problems that don't really exist doesn't work. To get more people in Open, I think that Open should be a little more rewarding than private/solo due to the risks it has. Like, 30% bigger credit payouts in Open for missions? Not sure if that would work.

please dont lynch me

 

[Kinmob]

You got an infraction from the moderation team for calling a new user on the forums 'a tool', and to top it off... with an insulting second segment to your post. The moderation action against that content was warranted and correct to the forum rules here: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=115239&p=1788185&viewfull=1#post1788185

Joking about is quite different from point-blank trolling people.

Ok it was for calling him a tool, doesn't specify in the infraction. So calling a guy who combat logged then outright twisted facts and was caught on video a "tool" is not ok. Blanket statement calling an entire player group a bunch of "sorry asses" is frontier development approved and warrants jokes from FDev. As far as trolling, in regards to either of these posts, what the hell are you talking about?

 

[willowfan]

I don't know.. maybe it's because I've been isolated on the Xbox side of things my whole ED career..

But I'm with SDC on this.

Mobius is doing more damage to the game segregating 20 THOUSAND people from playing Open than they are.

And if Mobius wants protection they should have higher standards for themselves. It's not Frontier's job to protect Mobius against people who are just playing the game.

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This article is soooo much inside baseball that I welcome the chance to explain it to my boss someday.

You're over thinking this.

Thing is anti-mobius posters can't have it both ways -

I frequently see either "Mobius is sucking the life out of open" or "Mobius is an insignificant less than 2% of the player base and so can be ignored", so which is it?

Some even say both statements in the same thread if not the same post!

 

[Mighty Dangerous]

All games restrict groups/guilds/clans to a size.

After reading the article I'm of the opinion that Mobius has ruined ED but it's also Frontier fault for no cap on groups.
I never thought private groups was a problem but it's makes sense now.

I think Braben is spot on about Solo. Give newbies freedom to learn and practice.
When they ready they will venture into open but disappearing into a massive group, nah, not healthy for the game.

 

[William J Smith]

I'll go out on a limb here and support SDC

EEEKK stop throwing stones at me

OK the mobius thing was beyond what I would call fair play, But I did'nt buy Elite danjerous just so I could go about trading with the slight chance of coming off second best to a NPC,
There is other people in the game, I want the chance that the 4 human ships I see on the approach to Solo orbiter in Altair are after my cargo, that the cutter sitting close to the station wants
nothing more than to send me back to rebuy screen.
After all... if a group of people are blockading a system I want to use, I want the risk of running said blockade, even if it does mean getting a face full of railgun ammo
My only wish and I have explained it a couple of times to the least popular members of SDC is that put an in-game reason for your antics, you want the lulz from blockading the Maia system, say you're a bunch
of eco-terrorists trying to prevent harm coming to the barnacle lifeform. (not that I think shooting down poorly armed explorers like me is much of a challenge for a tricked out combat cutter).

In short, SDC do add something to open play in Elite, some of it good, but a lot of it bad

Bill

<<plays in open.... and if you want fear, try flying an explorer's Asp loaded with 12 millin cr of data through the bubble in open..... you see a hollow square, its straight to brown alert [woah]

 

[Boomer Kay]

I think Braben is spot on about Solo. Give newbies freedom to learn and practice.
When they ready they will venture into open but disappearing into a massive group, nah, not healthy for the game.

I'm a MMO n00b with a mere 20 years experience and I play solo.
How many more years of learning and practicing will it take for me to be able to brave the challenges of open?

But I did'nt buy Elite danjerous just so I could go about trading with the slight chance of coming off second best to a NPC

Well, I did. Now I got my girlfriend playing, got my best friend to try... hmm.. social coop with people I like hanging out with.

And if the War of Wolfberg (remember Wolfberg) and the Silent Watch of Eravate have proven anything, it's that the game is working EXACTLY as designed and players from ALL modes can cooperate, compete and interact over the shared BGS and if you can't play the BGS to your advantage, well .. maybe you do not have enough friends. Maybe calling players from other modes (or other systems) "carebears" and whatnot has something to do with someone not having all that many friends? Maybe a good cause gathers more support any day of the year? And maybe ED will die an 11th time.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

All games restrict groups/guilds/clans to a size.

After reading the article I'm of the opinion that Mobius has ruined ED but it's also Frontier fault for no cap on groups.
I never thought private groups was a problem but it's makes sense now.

I think Braben is spot on about Solo. Give newbies freedom to learn and practice.
When they ready they will venture into open but disappearing into a massive group, nah, not healthy for the game.

What a load of nonsense.

Mobius advertised a private group - cooperative play style - people joined it.

Also, best not to twist someone's quote especially when the link to the source is on page 1

"Players can get up to speed in solo," he says. "It's in the armoury of things that work well. Solo play is quite important to a lot of people, depending on the performance of network, and all sorts of things. But we're continually looking at the way things work. Having said that, things are working really well. There are edge cases - we don't talk about specifics - but we're continuously on the lookout for how to make them even better."

He made no reference to people joining open post learning ... people will venture where they please and if that means joining like minded people in the Mobius group then more power to them.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I don't think groups like Mobius would exist if Elite Dangerous had proper in-game "guilds/clans/organizations". The "friends list" is fine for small groups of friends, but you can't expect 20,000 players to individually maintain a list of the other 19,999.

With proper in-game organization in open play, you'd be able to easily find other players to form wings for mutual protection. The big difference being, you'd have a pool of 20,000 mostly vetted players to ask from... "Any fighters near Lave than can run escort?". With a friend's list, the pool is much smaller, many of which probably won't be online or available.

The rule of thumb of MMO organizations for determining player saturation... Total number in the organization... since it's a large, unmanaged organization, one third of which are still actively playing the game (an organization that monitors player activity would kick players who have essentially "moved on" from the game)... one third of which are in a timezone where they're not currently sleeping or at work... a third of those are actually online playing and not doing other IRL things... a quarter or less of those in the area you are playing and/or willing to help you - probably worse since Elite Dangerous is so large a playing field. Using Mobius's number of 20,000, that gives you a very healthy pool of around 150-200 players.

My opinion, limit "Private Groups" to maybe 20 members at most, and implement in-game organization of players in Open. It levels the playing field.

Sorry.. You don't "get" why many of us play in Möbius. There is more than 1 reason and SOME would go back to open if changes were made but others want a purely pve CO op game simple as that and if it was removed they would either go solo or leave

 

[Guywired]

Thing is anti-mobius posters can't have it both ways -

I frequently see either "Mobius is sucking the life out of open" or "Mobius is an insignificant less than 2% of the player base and so can be ignored", so which is it?

Some even say both statements in the same thread if not the same post!

I've quoted you, but really I'm replying to everyone who's questioned me in this thread.

To be clear, Mobius is a symptom of the problem NOT the problem. The problem is private or solo play. The feature makes Open play feel barren and empty.

But to add insult to injury, players using private/solo play are able to (and do) troll Open players by abusing the system control/PP mechanics.

You don't want players messing with your game, but you're off playing private or solo and you're messing with other people's game.

If it were up to me, I would be asking "Which is it?"

Do you want to play totally by yourself or don't you?

And if you DO want to play by yourself.. why should you be allowed to manipulate Open play?

 

[Lestenio]

All games restrict groups/guilds/clans to a size.

After reading the article I'm of the opinion that Mobius has ruined ED but it's also Frontier fault for no cap on groups.
I never thought private groups was a problem but it's makes sense now.

I'm inclined not to agree. Why should someone who wants a PvE experience be confined to playing alone or with a few other people. Surely it's better for the health of the game in the long run if players are happy and playing rather than quitting because they are forced to play alone or play with people they have no interest playing with.