What will ED look like at the end of the 10-year plan?

Mathematics was involved in both, making a script that generates a universe really isn't like a lifetime achievement or anything, many games do it, even indie games.

Well ED *is* an indie game, but sure. I also like how you call it "making a script". =p

Anyone can procedural generate something, doing it well is another matter. ED's level of generation has to be realistic, not so with Planet Coaster. I suspect (and would like to think) ED procedural generation is a whole different level to the majority of what you'll see out there.


On your comment I was originally going to quote i don't think its that people don't understand development time, I think its that FD consistently choose to avoid easy changes/solutions in favour of extremely drawn out fixes/changes.

Its a time thing right? How they choose to allocate their development time seems very questionable to me and it isn't because they don't fix my problems its because whoevers driving the carriage keeps pointing them in directions that aren't that useful. If you make a side by side comparison of the game in its current state compared to a year ago for example nothing important has changed, there are some different dressings on the windows but all the core problems are still present and the gameplay hasn't changed at all with maybe the exception of the planetary landing / SRV stuff.

People are right to question that I think

As I was saying part of the issue is that Frontier's aim does not necessarily align with whoever it is that's complaining.

I totally disagree that nothing has changed since a year ago. I think people just like to ignore what has changed and concentrate on *their* specific complaint.

3 months ago we were given the ability to land on airless worlds, I remember that moment, how utterly awed I was at the scope of what ED is and has done.

Only yesterday I travelled to a star on the edge of a dark nebula and *still* felt that very same feeling.

I mean every single one of these stars is visitable :

uc

And as of a few months ago the realistically modelled planets orbiting them too. Nothing has changed? Sure, I mean, if you want to look at it that way.
 
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hahahaha making a script makes me sound like a moron but you know what? I'll wear it

but to if you find horizons amazing your being wowed by mathematics, thats a pretty cool way to be i'll admit but it just doesn't work for some of us. I can't play starbound and keep clicking on planets and being wowed by the fact I can go there, because I know when i go there it follows an extremely predictable pattern of what I will see.

I was keeping Horizons seperate anyway because it was fundamentally an xpac not a patch, but to the original game its simple actually.

If you booted the game up in solo mode without any knowledge of what patch you were on, could you tell? I'd have to look at the ship list or see if collector limpets were available to have any idea, I certainly couldn't tell by doing missions or the normal activities the game presents (trade/bh/exploration) because the core game hasn't changed at all.
 
No different to everyone here then :D

Which reminds me... How's the Steam forum going these days? Maybe I'll pop my head back in there to have a look around. :D

Regarding the forums here, there is a wide range, but I think most of the regulars know a bit more about the game than that fellow does (or did), at least.

But yeah, fair point. :D
 
It's a good question this one, and pretty tough, well, close to impossible really, but it's always fun to speculate.

Broadly I'd expect ED to be the same as it is now and unexpectedly much more.

For example, whilst they are both (obviously) set in space, did we see CQC and PP coming?

Whether or not you like/play them, I think they caught most off guard, and PP likely forms the base mechanism upon which much of the Thargoid (and other) story-lines will be told. Sandro strongly hinted as much, calling PP a springboard in the recent PP live-stream.

So I'd expect some more 'Where Did That Come From?' moments along the way, and I'm suspecting more than a couple will be further stepping-stones for game-growth. I'm hoping for Space Whales - propelled by a Drumpf-Drive, a mix of hot air and bile :x - and 'Generation Ships Gone Ferral'.

I'm not too sure how I feel about the walking-simulator aspect yet (a long way off according to Sandro) - as for me ED is all about being a CMDR in a ship, and I'd rather FDev concentrated on doing this one thing very well, than trying to be a jack-of-all-trades. However, if it integrates well, then some EVA Search & Rescue/Recover missions could be a-maz-ing.

I hope the fidelity of the planets gets a bit of love - for me there aren't enough jagged edges in them to feel really real at the moment (I'm thinking here of Infinity Battlescape as one example of more 'rocky-looking-rocks/peaks/cliffs/edges' - they all look quite a bit sharper) - and whilst caves would be nice, I guess I can live without them. And if FDev can head atmospheric planets towards NMS's seeming breadth and variety (without the cartoony look), then I will be more than a lot very super extra happy.

I also have a nagging suspicion that this galaxy is not the only one for ED... be it a witch-space galaxy (e.g. a multi-factional Thargoid galaxy, to explore, fight and form alliances within...) or a.n.other galaxy all of its own...

And, well, if all else fails, we have always got Elite: Deadly to look forward to. (Yes really, [SUB]TM[/SUB]'d already by FDev.)

Let's be honest with NMS and Limit Theory chugging our way at different speeds, I think the future's bright! :D
 

For me the main attraction of Elite is indeed being a pilot of a spaceship, so I agree that I'd prefer that being the main focus. I already have Space Engineers, for example, which is kind of all over the place now and is more like "Minecraft in Space." I'd rather Elite not go for that so much.

Also agree on the need for surface feature improvements, namely erosion and caves/overhangs, which hopefully we'll get when we get worlds with atmosphere and weather. Spaceships that double as submarines would also be very cool for water worlds. Surfaces as they are now can actually look pretty amazing though (see the thread I linked to on the previous page). Unfortunately though, I think for caves they may indeed need to overhaul the engine to be able to generate them.

Maybe "Elite: Deadly" will be the multiple character slot hard core mode expansion. ;)
 
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Ten years is too long imo. Ten years is alot of time for pc development, that would be the main factor,how strong will the average pc be in ten years,hell the game file will probablly be 5 terrabytes.
Eve online is 13 years old....
WoW is 12 years old...

so no, 10 years is not 'too long' well other then people forgetting what the games were like in the early years, in the early years Eve and WoW had..many many issues, I dare say many more then Elite, and much more severe issues, as for game file size, nope, Elite won't be one of the big games, because it is procedurally generated.
Star Citizen will start out at 100 gb <-- At launch or so from what they project. Now there is a game that I could se take up a lot of space, because of the way they are doing stuff with hand crafting.
Elite at year 10? I predict maybe around 20-30 gb, changed my estimation a bit, Elite with horizon is currently 7.3gb, which is more or less double from original, now naturally it won't double each year, so I'm guessing more 30-40gb range instead, which is around the size many games are currently.
 
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hahahaha making a script makes me sound like a moron but you know what? I'll wear it

but to if you find horizons amazing your being wowed by mathematics, thats a pretty cool way to be i'll admit but it just doesn't work for some of us. I can't play starbound and keep clicking on planets and being wowed by the fact I can go there, because I know when i go there it follows an extremely predictable pattern of what I will see.

I was keeping Horizons seperate anyway because it was fundamentally an xpac not a patch, but to the original game its simple actually.

If you booted the game up in solo mode without any knowledge of what patch you were on, could you tell? I'd have to look at the ship list or see if collector limpets were available to have any idea, I certainly couldn't tell by doing missions or the normal activities the game presents (trade/bh/exploration) because the core game hasn't changed at all.

Yes, you need to see the ships or the modules. Or the missions. Or watch the AI in combat. Or notice the CG. Or see if galnet is ingame in the first place. Or check if there is powerplay. Or see if planets are tagged when exploring (or hey, if you can land on them). You could literally do *anything* and instantly see if if its 1.0. Immediately. I think you've forgotten how it was, or you werent here then, because every part of the game changed and huge chunks were added. I can take of and make a jump, and just doing that will tell me where in the year I roughly am. Heck, I dont even need to start the game, the tutorial missions give a pretty strong clue as they were overhauled as well. You dont have to take my word on it, go check the patch notes. Come to think of it, I dont even need to turn my monitor on, I can hear in SC which version it is (cool stuff: I can prevent overshooting by just listening to the engines, try closing your eyes next time!). Oh, the 'yeah, you just type like a script or something and you got like lots of planets and stuff' comment was kinda silly. :)

Its kinda odd. Opinions and taste can differ, but why do so many of you 'not so happy people' get their facts wrong? :(
 
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Guess you're speaking about SC. If that's the case, let's see how SC pre-alpha handle against Elite.

Graphically speaking, details in SC are higher than ED. Textures are better looking to. Ever tried getting in a station sideway and taking a second to look at the letterbox in ED?
Graphics are ahead in SC, but their engine took a big hit with latest test version even with high-end PC, so Elite get the edge by a long shot here.
Ships part can actively be destroyed with weapon causing real physical damage to the ship. Huge advantage to SC
Collision also directly break physical part of the ship in function of collision speed/direction/part hit. Huge advantage to SC
You can walk around, even if there's not much to do. The possibilities already offered make the pre-alpha ahead once again anyway.
Flight model is faster paced but as good Elite, so more of a question of taste.
Grouping is easier but not that much better than Elite at this moment.
There's absolutely no economy at this time in SC but given how poorly ED economy is designed, this is almost a plus. Having to start from scratch is easier than having a poor system to completely redo.
Ships module aren't fully done but what's present is more elaborated in SC. Just look at the various mount for weapons and how you can customize a ship loadout. Advantage to SC
Huge advantage for shield in SC.
There's no way to influence the galaxy at all, so Elite has a big advantage here.
The galaxy in Elite is great, so again a big advantage for Elite.
Missions are as poor as Elite at this moment so the mission overhaul might switch the advantage to Elite soon. At this moment, they are pretty much the same useless thing.

So overall, SC might not yet have ruled out ED, but every part that is ready has been thought with more depth than Elite. Can't say it will be great, it's too early to be sure, but Elite surely isn't ahead of it.

Well, the damage model in ED was put on the back burner, however just look at the Anaconda, that is probably a very good indicator of how the damage model will be on all the ships in the future. Regarding textures, yes Elite is lacking high res textures, however that can be fixed nothing game breaking, the economy situation I can't comment on as I have no clue of how it look under the hood.

The ED flight model are much more interesting, the ships in ED actually feels like they are heavy space ships, in SC they feel like paper models. Furthermore the FM force you to a pitch roll style, and from a dog fight POV this is more interesting than turret in space models.

When we get down to the core of both games, ED is rock solid, SC has a glitter surface however very fragile ATM. When ED get space legs in season 3 (that is what we expect), the difference will be even smaller. The 1:1 galaxy in ED are in my opinion the best move FD did regarding the game.
 
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Well, the damage model in ED was put on the back burner, however just look at the Anaconda, that is probably a very good indicator of how the damage model will be on all the ships in the future. Regarding textures, yes Elite is lacking high res textures, however that can be fixed nothing game breaking, the economy situation I can't comment on as I have no clue of how it look under the hood.

The ED flight model are much more interesting, the ships in ED actually feels like they are heavy space ships, in SC they feel like paper models. Furthermore the FM force you to a pitch roll style, and from a dog fight POV this is more interesting than turret in space models.

When we get down to the core of both games, ED is rock solid, SC has a glitter surface however very fragile ATM. When ED get space legs in season 3 (that is what we expect), the difference will be even smaller. The 1:1 galaxy in ED are in my opinion the best move FD did regarding the game.

Forget about the flight model. Even if they fix that, in SC the best controller is a mouse. Let that sink in. A mouse. In 2016. Mouse-controlled 'gimballed' plus a ' massive arrow right in the middle of your your screen pointint at your opponent reduce the combat to what Kids Mode was in Wacky Wheels. Its how reddit would ironically design it to mock WoW-type games. All the missing content I can overlook and pretend it will be added. I can pretend the bugs will be fixed. What is difficult to accept is the stuff that is finished and 'solid' according to Chris.
 
E:D in 10 years
Getting rid of p2p, it'll play entirely on "the cloud."
All ships will be Cobra variants, even so, the Asp Ex will still be the most popular ship
As part of the season 7 update, "Friendship Drive", you have to make at least 2 friendly posts to other players on their Galspan Social Media page before you can make long jumps.
There will be multiple forms of currency based on each occupation that allow players to buy specialized equipment that often have nothing to do with that profession.
Piracy will once again be a problem as pvp players spend their "Explorer Bucks" to buy "Solomode Tunnelers" to invade solomode. To defend against this, solo players can spend their "PvP Coins" to purchase "Tunnel Shields".
All trade goods will be replaced with "Printer Cartridges" for 3d printers that have replaced all forms of production. In most station economies, "Printer Cartridges" are spent producing more "Printer Cartridges" to sell as the economy slowly enters its final death spiral.
Most stars have run out of fuel long ago causing the Fuel Rats to expand into towing services as stations have infinite fuel as long as they have printer cartridges. A few still live on the edge, collecting fuel from the few remaining fuel producing stars but are being hunted down by Aislings current activist campaign "Stop Eating Stars You Stupid Meanie".
Everyone continues waiting for the Thargoids to reveal themselves while the majority of Frontier's dev staff no longer even remembers what that word means and just makes vague posts about it to keep riots from breaking out
The UA's, Barnacles and the season 3 discovery of Starfish have all been revealed to be a creation of Hudson to distract everyone from his secret affair with Torval
The Powerplay mechanic has been changed dramatically and power rankings are now determined by SRV races, the type of race and location determined by last weeks winner
NPC pilots Ai have been upgraded and now contain highly advanced conversational code borrowed from Microsoft. As such, all npc pilots are now very chatty but also racist bigots.
Lastly, Exploration has been drastically changed since season 6 "LIMPETS FOR EVERYONE!" as everyone now employs Exploration Limpets which zoom around sectors scanning everything for you and beams the information back to your ship, even if you're in another sector

i so hope you are wrong but somehow i know your crystall ball has a point. thanks for the laughs! :D
 
Yes, you need to see the ships or the modules. Or the missions. Or watch the AI in combat. Or notice the CG. Or see if galnet is ingame in the first place. Or check if there is powerplay. Or see if planets are tagged when exploring (or hey, if you can land on them). You could literally do *anything* and instantly see if if its 1.0. Immediately. I think you've forgotten how it was, or you werent here then, because every part of the game changed and huge chunks were added. I can take of and make a jump, and just doing that will tell me where in the year I roughly am. Heck, I dont even need to start the game, the tutorial missions give a pretty strong clue as they were overhauled as well. You dont have to take my word on it, go check the patch notes. Come to think of it, I dont even need to turn my monitor on, I can hear in SC which version it is (cool stuff: I can prevent overshooting by just listening to the engines, try closing your eyes next time!). Oh, the 'yeah, you just type like a script or something and you got like lots of planets and stuff' comment was kinda silly. :)

Its kinda odd. Opinions and taste can differ, but why do so many of you 'not so happy people' get their facts wrong? :(

Because a difference of opinion isn't wrong, you've listed a nice and impressive list of features that you can indeed see that are different but when you look at it dispassionately its actually a whole host of very small usability upgrades i'm not talking horizons here just take the basic mechanics of the game from 1.0 to 1.5.

Trading/BH/Exploration are literally identical in every way that matters, Piracy/Mining got limpets other than that they are identical. You can choose to be impressed by an in-game newspaper and some flashy screens to point you from A to B but I can equally choose to think that if you build flashy features ontop of shallow ones it will always remain shallow.

And no my comment about procedural generation wasn't silly, people choose to be wowed by the fact that they built a system to generate the universe for them, they throw billions around like its a number that matters, after they wrote it the number really doesn't feature anymore there could have been 4 million or 4 trillion systems it doesn't make a difference because they were built by a system which means they have all the flaws of being built by a system. For all the sarcasm associated with this "yeah, you just type like a script or something and you got like lots of planets and stuff" its true, that is exactly what they did, you think the developer manually crafted those? They didn't touch 99.9999% of them, you probably need some more 9s in there.

I only mentioned it in context to this "A realistic procedurally generated simulation of the galaxy isn't half as accomplished as a small park with cartoon graphics?" that bitstorm was talking about because its ludicrous to say oh well they have 4 billion systems so its obviously 1000x better than every other game ever made.
 
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Guess you're speaking about SC. If that's the case, let's see how SC pre-alpha handle against Elite.
.
Ok lets try to ask something.
Graphics: you have ships and a small starting area currently, all done by hand, does it look better then Elite's generated stuff up close? sure, is it so horribly optimized that only people with beasts of pc's can get any framerate? also true, personally I think Elite has a huge leap in graphics, because you know..its actually playable, even on very low end machines, and lets not even talk about how the visual effect bleed around. so yeah - unplayable 'beautiful' textures vs Elite very playable good looking textures just not up close...

Ship destruction + collisions: both are the same, so its not two plus to SC at best, one, and honestly, the ships in SC have quite weird designs, where Elite's are more sensible, take the aurora, if something breaks you have to eva out to fix it, Elite? last I checked, all things are generally accessable from the inside, don't get me wrong, Star Citizen's designs look good, but not sensible too much is vulnerable to the slightest thing, and as for the whole destruction thing, it is interesting, but right now it is frustrating to heck, because of everything that is interconnected this makes the ships very fragile. and Elite ships do have destruction models, you just can't rip them apart piece by piece, would it be cool to be added more visual destruction to Elite, yes definitely, does it need to be part by part destruction ripping free of the ship...dunno. But that's just my opinion.

You can walk around: yes, you can, but it is soo wonky and sensitive that at current state it isn't really a plus, add that the game is made ontop of an FPS game engine, so it already had walking around in it, it is not like a lot of effort needed to be put into doing that part, ED is getting first person at some point with walking around in ships, I don't mind waiting.

flight model: the whole insane yaw thing is the only difference, and I am not sure how I feel on that, makes it feel like a turret in space, rather then a space ship, also makes it _VERY_ disorientating and difficult to predict pilot and flight behaviour when you are flying with someone, making manning a turret or such very difficult, not to mention that everyone would technically be dead the yaw g forces since that's something the human body is very poor at handling, horizontal (left-right) g forces is what we are poorest at handling, best at front/back, then up/down.

Grouping is easier?.....if you get into the same server....still really wonky in SC in my experience, where Elite I've very rarely had instancing issues between wing members, seems to be more related to a persons connection then anything else. So yeah, experience vary I guess.

Ship modules: I do not agree, especially since modules are handled very differently on each game, at best I would say this is no points for either.

advantage for shields? really? this because you can distribute power between shield directions? granted it would be cool if Elite had this too, but its implementation feels odd on SC, again personal taste maybe.

missions are poor in Elite: Last I checked it is only certain kinds of missions that are non functional, rest work fine? they aren't fun to some? have you seen Star Citizen's missions? they are more or less exactly the same in nature at best...?

So I have to ask, are you sure your opinions aren't based around still being infatuated, hyped and such with Star Citizen, a game not out yet, a game that hasn't revealed entirely what it is, where Elite dangerous is out, and it is over the infatuation and hype stage and is in the long haul process, you know of actually being a game. It is very easy to be over excited with something not out yet, its happened to a lot of games, and it makes people not see some issues that make others worry.

Where Elite, a game that is out, yes, has flaws, but has also proven that they are working on it, sure there are unhappy people, but that is always the case. And maybe Elite isn't for you, but Star Citizen is going to have many of the same issues that Elite does, and I think it will have more because of the enormous amount of hype it is running with.
Elite had less hype, but has lived up to what it claimed it would do in my book, is it perfect? no, but no game will ever be.

meh that became a rant, in short it seems a lot of late that if a game isn't "boom bang pretty shiny, see me do this, bang bang, I'm the hero" of late, people go "that sucks!" a game is either good or it sucks and should die.
Where the heck has all the space in-between, for great but flawed games? are people feeling that entitled of late, that there is only win or lose?
 
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Forget about the flight model. Even if they fix that, in SC the best controller is a mouse. Let that sink in. A mouse. In 2016. Mouse-controlled 'gimballed' plus a ' massive arrow right in the middle of your your screen pointint at your opponent reduce the combat to what Kids Mode was in Wacky Wheels. Its how reddit would ironically design it to mock WoW-type games. All the missing content I can overlook and pretend it will be added. I can pretend the bugs will be fixed. What is difficult to accept is the stuff that is finished and 'solid' according to Chris.

Well, that one is obvious :D just go to RSI and check out the mega thread regarding controllers. ED is doing it right here, and I can only imagine that we will see great VR implementation when we can to EVA and walk around.
 
Well, that one is obvious :D just go to RSI and check out the mega thread regarding controllers. ED is doing it right here, and I can only imagine that we will see great VR implementation when we can to EVA and walk around.

that could also happen in E:D with the Multi Crew update, when the ships gunner is able to aim the gimbals via mouse [big grin]
 
Because a difference of opinion isn't wrong, you've listed a nice and impressive list of features that you can indeed see that are different but when you look at it dispassionately its actually a whole host of very small usability upgrades i'm not talking horizons here just take the basic mechanics of the game from 1.0 to 1.5.

Trading/BH/Exploration are literally identical in every way that matters, Piracy/Mining got limpets other than that they are identical. You can choose to be impressed by an in-game newspaper and some flashy screens to point you from A to B but I can equally choose to think that if you build flashy features ontop of shallow ones it will always remain shallow.

And no my comment about procedural generation wasn't silly, people choose to be wowed by the fact that they built a system to generate the universe for them, they throw billions around like its a number that matters, after they wrote it the number really doesn't feature anymore there could have been 4 million or 4 trillion systems it doesn't make a difference because they were built by a system which means they have all the flaws of being built by a system. For all the sarcasm associated with this "yeah, you just type like a script or something and you got like lots of planets and stuff" its true, that is exactly what they did, you think the developer manually crafted those? They didn't touch 99.9999% of them, you probably need some more 9s in there.

I only mentioned it in context to this "A realistic procedurally generated simulation of the galaxy isn't half as accomplished as a small park with cartoon graphics?" that bitstorm was talking about because its ludicrous to say oh well they have 4 billion systems so its obviously 1000x better than every other game ever made.

Your point was that you couldnt see the difference. You may be correct that you cant tell the difference, but your factually wrong when you say there are no differences to notice. Whether these changes matter or not is subjective, whether there are hundreds upon hundreds of changes is not. As for the 'script' comment: you dont seem to have much of an understanding of how these things work. Or how much work goes into it. Or what the difference between various approaches is. The reason its a silly statement is not that we dont know what PG is. Its not about the number of planets either. Its about the complexity of system. Just like people dont argue Beethoven's 5th is good 'because it has many notes', or lasts for quite some time. Saying 'its just like a lot of notes and sounds, plenty of people put notes on a paper, been there done that' is silly. Its akin to claiming a spaceshuttle wasnt a great design because its 'just a lot of screws and stuff put together'. The planetary generation method they used would not have been less or more impressive if there were 10x more or less planets. Noone is arguing that. You're so completely missing the point, which kinda makes it more funny. :)
 
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