What will ED look like at the end of the 10-year plan?

[VR Golgot]

Like I said, that's a wish list not a plan.

They say they have devs working on Seasons 3 & 4 already, so they certainly have a roadmap (and given the hire of animators etc it seems safe to assume Legs is in there). Their AIM announcements as a listed company all speak to a long-term plan re proving the marketability of their Cobra engine etc via ED. It'd be daft if they didn't have a plan (and contingencies) along these lines.

On the game side, I do agree with you that the 1:1 scope could be something of an albatross. Certainly it'll take a long while to fill in the gaps such scale entails.

 

[Kubicide]

Isn't this whole 10 year plan meme something the players have invented. Like the vertical slice meme back during beta and the use your imagination meme that dominated the first year. I mean I'm sure Frontier have said they'd like the game to run for 10 years which is not impossible for an MMO type game but is pretty rare. But a desire for the game to be around 10 years from now is a far cry from an actual plan for 10 years worth of updates and development. Honestly I don't see any sign that much of the first years updates were planned prior to launch let alone this year or year 3, 4, 5, etc. Sure they've probably got a big old wish list and some sort of idea what order they want to tackle it in but that's hardly a "plan" and I'd lay money on many things on that list never happening and many things not on that list coming about because of player pressure, changing staff or just shifting winds (assuming the game remains profitable enough to justify development).

Just something that strikes me whenever I see this 10 year plan thing being trotted out by the player base as if there this holy tomb at Frontier that details the ultimate space sim and we just have to patiently wait for them to work through it over the course of 10 years.

This is so true. Every time I've asked someone in these forums to point to any evidence from FDev on this 10 year plan statement, after they've made this comment, they can't and don't.

This indeed seems to be nothing more than a theory crafted from certain die-hards early last year. Loyal fans who acknowledged the game was in fact very incomplete. I was here starting in early beta and there was never any mention of a 10 year release plan, never. As you suggest, things appear to be getting made up as FDev moves forward; the plan seems to be "what can we do next, and/or what can we do next for $$?". A good example is CQC - sorry, "Arena"- was never mentioned during beta (never mind the change in plans with the name and how it would be sold). xBox and Steam were not going to be supported originally, as stated by FDev themselves, but then this plan was quickly reversed. Planetary landings was supposed to be part of the original release but couldn't be done so it then became an expansion, and this couldn't be achieved so it then became two expansions (lol, maybe it's the 10 year plan itself!). Even the simple CG feature came out of nowhere with no warning and no pre-sell hype after FDev saw players doing group events. Features for Horizons 2.4 are still listed as "TBD" on their website suggesting they can't or won't even commit to things coming this year. And then there's the long list of things FDev said were planned for the game at launch but are still totally missing (NPC wingmen hello? Multiple shields - remember that? Etc., etc...). Strange actions for a company with a 10 year release plan, don't you think?

There's also a lot of 'ADHD' behavior from FDev, that the loyalists shouldn't ignore, which simply supports pessimistic thoughts especially in achieving some sort of long multi-year plan. Things like the Apple app: what's the plan for this now? Has this 'shiny toy' lost it's gloss? Where's Horizon's for Mac players? Elite will lose it's gloss one day and FDev are clearly showing you what to expect.

If there is indeed a 10 year plan by FDev then let's see some facts please, and let's also wish them luck on an ambitious and foolish business plan.

 

[bitstorm]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on what constitutes a plan and/or how far out it goes with any detail.

Some of those things you mentioned are probably being worked on and have some sort of planning done. But that doesn't (or shouldn't) get us anywhere near 10 years anyway.

No they probably wouldn't but I don't think 2.1, 2.2, 2.3 were on the original plan either. God knows what 2.4 is.

Frontier are not just adding planetary landings, FPS and maybe life, there seems to be much more beyond that...

This stuff's coming from *somewhere*, I seem to remember Frontier saying people are already working on the groundwork for season 3. (I *think* though I'd struggle to source this)

Whether that groundwork is actually 2.1, 2.2, 2.3 etc I don't know but that and their repeated talk of a horrendously large list of things to do they have to keep reprioritizing implies a long-term plan and not just magicing some random things up out of a hat every January.

 

[zzehirbazz]

No they probably wouldn't but I don't think 2.1, 2.2, 2.3 were on the original plan either. God knows what 2.4 is.

Frontier are not just adding planetary landings, FPS and maybe life, there seems to be much more beyond that...

This stuff's coming from *somewhere*, I seem to remember Frontier saying people are already working on the groundwork for season 3. (I *think* though I'd struggle to source this)

Whether that groundwork is actually 2.1, 2.2, 2.3 etc I don't know but that and their repeated talk of a horrendously large list of things to do they have to keep reprioritizing implies a long-term plan and not just magicing some random things up out of a hat every January.

No need for struggling. They literally, openly said that they have different teams currently working on Season 3 and Season 4 separately while another team is working on 2.x stuff therefore they also said that just because 2.x gets delays this year, doesn`t mean season 3 and 4 won`t be released simultaneously.

I was there when a dev posted this on the forums and read it myself.

 

[Privata]

This is so true. Every time I've asked someone in these forums to point to any evidence from FDev on this 10 year plan statement, after they've made this comment, they can't and don't.

This indeed seems to be nothing more than a theory crafted from certain die-hards early last year. Loyal fans who acknowledged the game was in fact very incomplete. I was here starting in early beta and there was never any mention of a 10 year release plan, never. As you suggest, things appear to be getting made up as FDev moves forward; the plan seems to be "what can we do next, and/or what can we do next for $$?". A good example is CQC - sorry, "Arena"- was never mentioned during beta (never mind the change in plans with the name and how it would be sold). xBox and Steam were not going to be supported originally, as stated by FDev themselves, but then this plan was quickly reversed. Planetary landings was supposed to be part of the original release but couldn't be done so it then became an expansion, and this couldn't be achieved so it then became two expansions (lol, maybe it's the 10 year plan itself!). Even the simple CG feature came out of nowhere with no warning and no pre-sell hype after FDev saw players doing group events. Features for Horizons 2.4 are still listed as "TBD" on their website suggesting they can't or won't even commit to things coming this year. And then there's the long list of things FDev said were planned for the game at launch but are still totally missing (NPC wingmen hello? Multiple shields - remember that? Etc., etc...). Strange actions for a company with a 10 year release plan, don't you think?

There's also a lot of 'ADHD' behavior from FDev, that the loyalists shouldn't ignore, which simply supports pessimistic thoughts especially in achieving some sort of long multi-year plan. Things like the Apple app: what's the plan for this now? Has this 'shiny toy' lost it's gloss? Where's Horizon's for Mac players? Elite will lose it's gloss one day and FDev are clearly showing you what to expect.

If there is indeed a 10 year plan by FDev then let's see some facts please, and let's also wish them luck on an ambitious and foolish business plan.

Here you go :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM0Gcl7iUM8
http://us2.campaign-archive1.com/?u...&id=ac1081437f&e=0439f6773e#launch and beyond
https://games.yahoo.com/video/interview-elite-dangerouss-david-braben-211040547.html
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=5659
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yd-m9AR7mY
http://us2.campaign-archive1.com/?u=dcbf6b86b4b0c7d1c21b73b1e&id=7157d0e3e1

Then of course from the wiki
http://elite-dangerous.wikia.com/wiki/Features_in_the_expansions
http://elite-dangerous.wikia.com/wiki/Elite:_Dangerous_FAQ#Can_I_own_and_control_capital_ships.3F

 

[bitstorm]

This is so true. Every time I've asked someone in these forums to point to any evidence from FDev on this 10 year plan statement, after they've made this comment, they can't and don't.

....

If there is indeed a 10 year plan by FDev then let's see some facts please, and let's also wish them luck on an ambitious and foolish business plan.

TO be honest I am pretty sure it was said by Braben, I mean you can believe me or not, maybe I *am* actually mistaken.

I've had a look and can't see anything obvious, but I think the reality is most people just really couldn't be bothered trawling through hours worth of Lavecon/EGX/Frontier footage to find it again, rather than it being fabricated.

I mean if you're that bothered about it you could have a look yourself.

But anyway believe that or not, if you don't think there's a 10 year plan then cool, don't believe it.

Regardless I do think there's enough work in evolving ED to last ten years, were talking a realistic simulation of a galaxy here. I mean just a city in itself is a huge undertaking.

 

[zzehirbazz]

Here you go :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM0Gcl7iUM8
http://us2.campaign-archive1.com/?u...&id=ac1081437f&e=0439f6773e#launch and beyond
https://games.yahoo.com/video/interview-elite-dangerouss-david-braben-211040547.html
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=5659
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yd-m9AR7mY
http://us2.campaign-archive1.com/?u=dcbf6b86b4b0c7d1c21b73b1e&id=7157d0e3e1

Then of course from the wiki
http://elite-dangerous.wikia.com/wiki/Features_in_the_expansions
http://elite-dangerous.wikia.com/wiki/Elite:_Dangerous_FAQ#Can_I_own_and_control_capital_ships.3F

Reading those gives me hope, I honestly want to believe that the reason for job posts on Frontier main page is not because they can`t find people to work for them, but to actually expand their staff to start making these plans real as fast as they can.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

TO be honest I am pretty sure it was said by Braben, I mean you can believe me or not, maybe I am actually mistaken.

I've had a look and can't see anything obvious, but I think the reality is most people just really couldn't be bothered trawling through hours worth of Lavecon/EGX/Frontier footage to find it again, rather than it being fabricated.

I mean if you're that bothered about it you could have a look yourself.

But anyway believe that or not, if you don't think there's a 10 year plan then cool, don't believe it.

I do think there's enough work in evolving ED to last ten years though, were talking a realistic simulation of a galaxy here. I mean just a city in itself is a huge undertaking.

I promise to FD, if I can EVER see that live, breathing cities in atmospheric planets with actualy things to do I will buy every season pass for the next 10 years. But at the moment development is so slow it doesn`t give anyone any encouragement.

 

[Lobstris]

Well, it's all over the internet my friend, just google it.

Lol. Riiiiiiiiiiight. In amongst all of the echo chamber of the Internet, where is the original '10-year plan' quote? If there is a 10-year plan, why is it not sticky-ed to the top of these forums for all to see?

Yes, there is plenty of good stuff out there on what Frontier would like to add in the future, sole great debates, discussions, wishlists on reddit, and concept art (both Frontier's and fan made), but there isn't a (public) timescale (AFAIAA), nor is there any guarantee of things ever materialising.

Personally, if we see atmospheric landings, with 'realistically' scaled proc. gen. cityscapes within the next couple of years, I'll consider Elite: Dangerous 'done' and finally a worthy successor to FFE.

 

[Privata]

Well now, imagine a bunch of guys who are very clever but have no imagination at all making a game like this. What do you think the likely outcome will be?

No imagination? why? because space is realistic in elite?
Read some of the elite books and you will see elites lore is very good and deep

 

[hookandsling]

Guess you're speaking about SC. If that's the case, let's see how SC pre-alpha handle against Elite.

Graphically speaking, details in SC are higher than ED. Textures are better looking to. Ever tried getting in a station sideway and taking a second to look at the letterbox in ED?
Graphics are ahead in SC, but their engine took a big hit with latest test version even with high-end PC, so Elite get the edge by a long shot here.
Ships part can actively be destroyed with weapon causing real physical damage to the ship. Huge advantage to SC
Collision also directly break physical part of the ship in function of collision speed/direction/part hit. Huge advantage to SC
You can walk around, even if there's not much to do. The possibilities already offered make the pre-alpha ahead once again anyway.
Flight model is faster paced but as good Elite, so more of a question of taste.
Grouping is easier but not that much better than Elite at this moment.
There's absolutely no economy at this time in SC but given how poorly ED economy is designed, this is almost a plus. Having to start from scratch is easier than having a poor system to completely redo.
Ships module aren't fully done but what's present is more elaborated in SC. Just look at the various mount for weapons and how you can customize a ship loadout. Advantage to SC
Huge advantage for shield in SC.
There's no way to influence the galaxy at all, so Elite has a big advantage here.
The galaxy in Elite is great, so again a big advantage for Elite.
Missions are as poor as Elite at this moment so the mission overhaul might switch the advantage to Elite soon. At this moment, they are pretty much the same useless thing.

So overall, SC might not yet have ruled out ED, but every part that is ready has been thought with more depth than Elite. Can't say it will be great, it's too early to be sure, but Elite surely isn't ahead of it.

You missed out scale model of the Milky Way.

 

[WR3ND]

You missed out scale model of the Milky Way.

Yeah, but why bother mentioning things they wasted their time on when they should have been making the game good instead...

Spoiler

Yes, of course I'm joking, but the funny thing is that some aren't. Different tastes, I guess. No since in complaining to me about it if I don't have a problem with it, or heaven forbid, actually like it.

 

[Hydrino]

To the OP point, In 10 years, assuming ED maintains an audience that can fund about $10 MUSD a year of development and a scaled amount for servers (about 250,000 players willing to spend $50/year), I expect surprises, but mainly that FD follow their initial plans and flesh out the game per the DDF and kickstarter videos. I don't expect ED to die anytime soon, even if they have to scale back a bit my guess is that just like EVE, there is a big enough core that would support the game such that FD can keep developing. My guess is that we need a few more years of processor and GPU advancement to allow the universe to get much more complex and remain playable.

My predictions are ED will include:

• Ship naming
• NPC's walking about stations and more NPC ship traffic (eventually like GTA or Planet Coaster pedestrians)
• More variation in space station interiors
• Thargoids and a galactic war using elements of Power Play for story and dynamics
• Player ownable home bases and storage
• Orrey View and associated coolness
• on dash-mini-Orrey
• military fuel- replaced by material synthesis and crafting
• Loot mechanic and possibly more legal salvage (purchasable authorization?)
• Enhancements to Galactic Map with heat maps and more info
• Enhancements to system view/ Orrey showing info from BGS in graphical manner
• Ship delivery service
• Enhancements to core mechanics like salvage and exploration
• introduction of vouchers
• More ships, more SRVs
• Additional modules, sensor types and enhancements to game-play (like zoned shield generators for larger ships)
• More active corporations, modules from specific manufacturers with different characteristics
• shipyards (large facilities producing spaceships drawing on CQC/Arena assets for inspiration)
• Player owned minor factions elevated to Powers, new player group mechanics
• Secret pirate bases in asteroid fields
• Space elevators to planet surfaces
• Landing on planets with atmosphere
• Landing on planets with life
• passengers and passenger missions
• more detailed damage models
• Vulkan/DX12 support
• Capital ship enhancements- regular patrols through sectors, potential to see cap ships in battle with aliens or between powers
• Hireable NPC crew and wingmates and associated missions and changes in gameplay
• comets and more stellar phenomena
• Enhanced news feeds with more relevant information from BGS and player actions - possibly this comes in season 3 due to enhancements to mission givers and BGS info in mission system feedback
• Water worlds with floating cities and ships
• Realistic weather effects for planets with atmosphere
• Skimming fuel from gas giants (maybe)
• Flying through clouds on gas giants
• Terraforming expansion of humanity - or possibly a massive contraction based on alien invasion
• enhanced missions system again- adding more options for mini-stories and scripting NPC actions
• Hardcore mode with player escape pods
• More assets to discover, like generation ships, dead planets with 20th-century tech level ruins, rock hermits, monuments on planets
• More destructible assets, even if they magically repair themselves. Everyone likes to blow stuff up and I think CQC showed that
• Last thing to go in will be walking around, not least because the VR experience from sitting in a vehicle seat is so much easier. Walking about everywhere in stages starting with ship interiors, then on planets, then inside space stations and buildings last.
• A spin off game based in the same galaxy, possibly a scripted story-line driven game or a more strategic conquest simulation

There are easily enough ideas on the forums and within FD to create 20 years worth of work. Strawman arguments that such a plan has to be fully detailed and fleshed out are non-sense. Fully detailing anything past 2 rolling years is a waste of time. Planning must include needed dependencies for future features; for example the tech to create planet surfaces without atmosphere is a prerequisite to create planet surfaces with atmosphere and weather effects, and that is a pre-req to create planets populated with life. Anyone that can't see a roadmap to get to planets populated with life that is at least 5 years long is a bit dense. These are massive amounts of work.

When it comes to ED, I almost never hear the regular refrain about AAA games taking 5-7 years and $60+ MUSD just to get to release. Folks pulling comparisons to games that had initial budgets 4x-8x ED's forget that FD is still a small company and ED was produced with about 14 MGBP in 2 years with 70-100 resources working the project (reaching about 126 at some point in 2015). FD ran a loss while producing ED (KS raised maybe 1/5 the cost to produce).

I've yet to find an apples-to-apples open world game with vastly superior gameplay. FPS- nothing but repetition. RPGs, not real-time combat, same grindy fetch, kill missions. Story driven games- different beasts, limited gameplay to reach an end-game and driving players down scripted corridors. I like to hear the ideas of how to make ED mechanics better, not just some generic complaint that another unnamed game is deeper or better and exploring how the comparison makes sense...

 

[Iskariot]

What will ED look like at the end of the 10-year plan?

It will be the Spacesim that rules them all!

 

[hookandsling]

Yeah, but why bother mentioning things they wasted their time on when they should have been making the game good instead...

Yeah I can get that this seems like a waste of effort right now for some, but I think it's pretty important to the way ED feels.
The other approach is being made so we'll see at some point, but I wonder how it's going to feel without knowing the black is out there, even if you never go there.

Also has to be said exploring appeals to lots of people, and can be made a lot better fairly easily, including tying it more closely to the lives of those who don't explore.

 

[WR3ND]

Yeah I can get that this seems like a waste of effort right now for some, but I think it's pretty important to the way ED feels.
The other approach is being made so we'll see at some point, but I wonder how it's going to feel without knowing the black is out there, even if you never go there.

Also has to be said exploring appeals to lots of people, and can be made a lot better fairly easily, including tying it more closely to the lives of those who don't explore.

I was mostly joking anyway, but some people do think that, it seems. I added in a spoiler on the post too.

I agree that there is more they can add to the game to help flesh it out and think it's likely that they will, sooner or later. Can't say that everyone will like it though, nor do I really care all that much. Main thing is that I like it.

 

[hookandsling]

I was mostly joking anyway, but some people do think that, it seems. I added in a spoiler on the post too.

I agree that there is more they can add to the game to help flesh it out and think it's likely that they will, sooner or later. Can't say that everyone will like it though, nor do I really care all that much. Main thing is that I like it.

Oh yeah the Spoiler.. Sorry man

 

[Steve50]

I doubt many will still be playing at the end of the 10 year plan if FD never do anything to stop the griefing which is now getting really out of hand.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I doubt many will still be playing at the end of [random time interval] if FD never do anything to stop the griefing which as of [insert current date] is getting really out of hand.

I fixed it for you, its now ready to be cut&pasted every month.

 

[Enderby]

I fixed it for you, its now ready to be cut&pasted every month.

That was so funny I forgot to laugh. Or even smile actually.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

I fixed it for you, its now ready to be cut&pasted every month.

That made me laugh

Virtual +1 as my spreading wasn't wide enough