The meaning of the elite ranking system

[JohnStabler]

With the ability to buy credits, some people were worried about the ability of new players to effectively buy progress. David Braben said that certain in-game stuff would be dependent on rank.

This would suggest that ranking is being used as a mechanic to gauge how long someone has been playing, like the experience points in many MMORPGs. However, what if someone wanted to simply play as a trader / explorer and actively sought to avoid combat?

The solution may be to award points in lieu of other achievements, therefore allowing miners and traders to climb the elite ladder. However, in what sense are you elite if you don't have many kills?

Is the solution to this to therefore adopt a separate XP system?

 

[Mars]

However, what if someone wanted to simply play as a trader

I guess they would just have to have a massive ship with all the toys instead.

However, what if someone wanted to simply play as an explorer

Good point. Maybe there should be a 'fame' rank for discovering new planets and alien artifacts.

 

[Toebs]

Is the solution to this to therefore adopt a separate XP system?

It's an interesting question.

In the original Elite, ranking was simply a function of number of kills.

We might wish for a more skill based system - but defining measurements of skill is problematic.

I might argue for two rankings; one vs NPCs, one vs humans.

 

[Hamerstein]

A multiple ranking system would make sense.

While we don't have fixed roles (like classes in other games), I don't see why you couldn't have different ranking systems for different types of game-play. You could be an "Elite" Trader (having garnered enormous amounts of wealth specifically by trading (to avoid the cash for credits exploit)) or an "Elite" Combateer or "Elite" Miner. There is no reason why you couldn't pursue all these rankings at the same time, or just devote yourself to obtaining the highest rank in a single play style as quickly as possible. The problem could be making each type of progress as interesting and rewarding as the others, grinding "Elite" mining by obtaining X amount of minerals from Y amount of asteroids sounds incredibly dull.

 

[Toebs]

grinding "Elite" mining by obtaining X amount of minerals from Y amount of asteroids sounds incredibly dull.

It might be Elite miners are those who mine in places other dare not - who plunge into pirate infested space to grab hold-fulls of rare, exotic and valuable minerals.

Nice idea, but then how do you write software to guage this? and in a way which can't be gamed?

 

[JohnStabler]

grinding "Elite" mining by obtaining X amount of minerals from Y amount of asteroids sounds incredibly dull.

It kept me playing WoW for a few years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_addiction

 

[Completely Harmless]

Me, I was never big on combat in any Elite (except being blown up if I ended up in one), so I sincerely hope we can gain some kind of, well, rank or whatever by other means.

Trading, exploring, mining, some missions and delivers, that's probably what I will mostly go for. I am no fighter pilot...

Odds are I'll end up doing all but actively hostile/illegal things (unless the illegal thing is smuggling humanitarian aid or some such), so I will probably never be the top of anything.

 

[JohnStabler]

Nice idea, but then how do you write software to guage this? and in a way which can't be gamed?

Mining asteroids and collecting minerals in more dangerous systems gives you more XP than in safe systems. Simples.

 

[Celandri]

if i remember you had diffrent type of military ranks, also police ranks and other ranks including elite ranking in frontier.
so they could easy get a rank for trading and mining.

 

[Sav112]

Talking about Elite Status I hope they don’t make it too easy! Games these days try too hard to please! I want to fall out of love with Elite and then come back stronger!

I think it all has to play a part – Combat, Trading, and Mining. But you cant have player spending countless hours just mining to become elite, Yes they could be regarded as good at it but You cant plop a Cornish miner ( if they still exist, just an example) that has spent years to become a total professional at their job in to a Harrier Jet and say your Elite!!!! They will crash and burn!

 

[JohnStabler]

I understand that they could have different ranks for different roles. But without a single XP counter, you would have unintended consequences e.g. you wouldn't be able to buy a weapon because your rank wasn't high enough in any particular role, even though if you'd spent all that time in a single role you'd be able to get it.

 

[Hamerstein]

It kept me playing WoW for a few years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_addiction

You probably mined in WoW to obtain resources to sell to other players, or to craft good for yourself (I know I did ). There isn't a mechanism planned for E: D to allow players to craft goods so there's no incentive for that kind of grind culture (apart from the rank concept). While mining in more...interesting...places would add some frisson of excitement to the grind element, I'd want to see miners doing something more interesting for the player than mine Asteroid A...then ...B ...then... C for ranking points.

Nice idea, but then how do you write software to guage this? and in a way which can't be gamed?

No idea, I just chuck ideas about, let the clever coding people figure out if (or how) it can be done

 

[Memnoch]

Well if there was an XP system, and a certain amount of XP was needed to reach a certain rank, then that XP could be awarded for ship kills, a new planet discovered, or making a very profitable trade that fulfilled a missions requirements.

The ranking name does lean heavily towards violence or threat though. Not sure how threatened I would feel being faced by a trader ranked Dangerous who get there by trading chicken wings!

 

[JohnStabler]

There isn't a mechanism planned for E: D to allow players to craft goods so there's no incentive for that kind of grind culture

Then they're missing a trick

 

[Kipper]

If (for the first time in Elite) you can "die" and scoot back to your last save point with a new ship, I think we would probably need to have ranking decreases for doing so.

Otherwise once you finally do hit "Elite" - then what?

Rather than the limited old view of 'how many kills' - we need an algorithm that takes into account:

Is the opponent human or NPC
Your current rank
Your opponents rank

How powerful your ship is
How powerful your opponents ship is

How many allies you have
How many enemies you have

First of all, humans should be more skilled than NPCs in general, so a kill on a player ship is worth maybe 25-50% more than an NPC.

Then, if you're both 'harmless' you should get no modifier. Every rank above you they are increases your score if you beat them, and every rank below decreases it. Inversely, this could work for piracy bounties too.

If you're currently in a basic sidewinder, even if you are Elite, but your opponent is in a fully loaded Asp MkII, you get a bonus for winning in combat. If its the other way around, you get much less kudos.

If multiple friendlies are hitting the enemy, the score is cut. If multiple enemies are hitting you, the score is increased.

Thus to become Elite; you must truly be good (and losing your ship takes score away from you, too so you can lose the ranking).

Am totally in agreement that trading, mining, exploring should all have some way to track and rank people too. If you can buy credits though, you can cheat at trading - because you can instantly get a huge ship and trade in the most valuable commodities.

If mining is based on valuable finds; but for gameplay reasons anything valuable is in systems where there are hordes of enemies - then you can't play passively and increase mining skills. So this will need thought.

I really hope that pirate/enemy/NPCs will only turn up where they are expected. I'd hate to run into a pirate ship in the far reaches of unexplored space; why is he there? What is he doing to earn a living? I'd expect only to meet the occasional other explorer, alien ship, science vessel etc.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

However, in what sense are you elite if you don't have many kills?

There is no requirement to base the Elite system on kills; that's how it was done in the past but not necessarily how it will be done now.

Perhaps with all the talk of different rolls FD will take a different approach - in order to balance out everything maybe they will consider different goals for them: To become part of the Elite it's based upon kills for the pilots; goods hauled for the traders; star systems explored / visited for the explorers; etc; and perhaps an over-riding "Master Elite" once you gain them all.

It could also be mission based - receive a number of kills, for instance, and in order to rank up you need to complete a mission; some task for the appropriate body.

If (for the first time in Elite) you can "die" and scoot back to your last save point with a new ship, I think we would probably need to have ranking decreases for doing so.

This I do not agree with - you punish the player for mistakes whilst you should be rewarding the player for skill. The old carrot and stick argument

I liked your idea about a sliding scale and also one of adjusting how you achieve the points:

- A pilot kill receives 2 points, but if you were higher rank you only get 1, and if they were the higher rank you get 3. (Numbers to be adjusted of course)
- A trader receives points for delivering goods, adjusted according to the distance hauled perhaps, or the type of goods they specialize in.
- The explorer could receive points for docking, adjusting for the relative safety of the world in question as well as the distance from the home worlds. (Exploring the outer rim for instance should be much more dangerous but also rewarding as well)

 

[Sav112]

I hope Talking about Elite Status they don’t make it too easy! Game these days try to hard to please! I want to fall out of love with Elite and then come back stronger!
I think it all has to pay a part – Combat, Trading, and Mining. But you cant have player spending countless hours just mining to become elite, Yes they could be regarded as good at it but You cant plop a Cornish miner ( if they still exist, just an example) that has spent years to become a total professional at there job in to a Harrier Jet and say your Elite!!!! They will crash and burn!

 

[Hamerstein]

Well if there was an XP system, and a certain amount of XP was needed to reach a certain rank, then that XP could be awarded for ship kills, a new planet discovered, or making a very profitable trade that fulfilled a missions requirements.

The ranking name does lean heavily towards violence or threat though. Not sure how threatened I would feel being faced by a trader ranked Dangerous who get there by trading chicken wings!

Hehe, was just thinking about that. What I'm suggesting is separate ranking systems for different styles. So While your "Dangerous" Trader would be very good at squeezing your last nickle out of you, he would be a "Mostly Harmless" combateer.

Then they're missing a trick

Not really, going down that route raises the spectre of gaming Cartels ruining the ideal of Elite, I'd rather sacrifice the player inter-trade model than end up playing Eve 2.0.

 

[JohnStabler]

Am totally in agreement that trading, mining, exploring should all have some way to track and rank people too. If you can buy credits though, you can cheat at trading - because you can instantly get a huge ship and trade in the most valuable commodities.

Good catch. I didn't think of that specific method. You can never underestimate people's ability to find and exploit systems.

I really hope that pirate/enemy/NPCs will only turn up where they are expected. I'd hate to run into a pirate ship in the far reaches of unexplored space; why is he there? What is he doing to earn a living? I'd expect only to meet the occasional other explorer, alien ship, science vessel etc.

Agreed.

 

[JohnStabler]

Not really, going down that route raises the spectre of gaming Cartels ruining the ideal of Elite, I'd rather sacrifice the player inter-trade model than end up playing Eve 2.0.

Sorry, I was being facetious as per my link to behavioural addiction.