I would like her to go over 500m/s like she used to. Then it would be my go-to ship for PvP. [hehe]
Does the Viper Mk III need a buff?
- Thread starter Ziljan
- Start date
I agree, it's pretty outclassed all around by everything in its class around it.
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I'd like all the little ships to be significantly faster on boost, it'd make flying them very different.
Other ships have other tools to deal with NPCs that aren't as readily available to the Viper: tough shields, bottomless utility slots, thick hulls, speed, agility, overwhelming firepower, stealth.
The only clear advantage of the Viper was the small hit box. If that's off the table, then the police ship is meant to be worse by every measure. So it needs a niche imo.
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Maneuvering thrusters are powerful? Maybe I'm running too much armor, but the side thrusters seem like garbage with any amount of hull additions at all. And the hull packages weigh as much other similar modules.
Can you post a build? And maybe message me some pointers?I am using fixed weapons btw (small burst and med MCs)
Will do if you remind me of that tomorrow as it it nearly later over here and I got stuff to do.
Feel free to write me a PM.
honestly, no, not any kind of upgrade like this..
The viper is a cheap _VERY_ good combat ship, there's no reason to upgrade it, at current state.
In terms of Vipering, this is what I've had most success with: http://coriolis.io/outfit/viper/02A3A3A2D3A3D2C7h7h1h1h00-2v436e00.Iw1+kA==.IwBhrStUg===
I don't generally PvP at all, but I'm basically fearless against NPC's in that setup.
I've also flown it even more stripped-down; take out the C2 lasers, put fixed beams in the C1's, and drop the interdictor. It's a hassle to kill anything bigger than starter ships, but it's even more agile than the already cut-down one above.
I don't generally PvP at all, but I'm basically fearless against NPC's in that setup.
I've also flown it even more stripped-down; take out the C2 lasers, put fixed beams in the C1's, and drop the interdictor. It's a hassle to kill anything bigger than starter ships, but it's even more agile than the already cut-down one above.
Give it a better pitch rate and I'd be happy - it turns like a T7 fergodssake.
I don't know, I have spend a lot of time in Hazres and Compromised Navbeacons in the Viper not that long ago and its a ship that can happily take on every ship 1v1, the only thing where I could get really in trouble would be attacking wings. And sometimes Clippers and Gunships, don't know why but they like to make trouble.
So its a pretty damn good ship as far as I can tell, don't really see why it should need a buff.
So its a pretty damn good ship as far as I can tell, don't really see why it should need a buff.
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viper could use a bit of a pitch increase, that's it though
The Viper Mk III did get a buff, it is called the Viper Mk IV
In general I am against buff requests, but your point about it being a police ship is a convincing one.
What if the police had special, faster versions of the Mark 3, a Police Special so to speak?
In general I would like the Police ships to have a meaner bite.
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Not really. More of a sidegrade than a buff.
All of these would be a tad much but i wouldn't be opposed to a little help for the Viper.
Personally more pitch would be a no-brainer. When i first climbed into one i was appaled how bad it handled.... and that for a pure combat ship that can't excel in anything else.
Beside that i can't really come up with something sensible without stepping on the toes of the DBS or the Cobra.
A Class 4 distributor maybe? Potential for good damage but the miniscule power plant and mind-numbingly boring 2s 2m weapon setup would well prevent overpowering the ship. But with a few sacrifices you could build a real glass cannon (which would overheat like crazy too in no time. Balance ;-D!).
Personally more pitch would be a no-brainer. When i first climbed into one i was appaled how bad it handled.... and that for a pure combat ship that can't excel in anything else.
Beside that i can't really come up with something sensible without stepping on the toes of the DBS or the Cobra.
A Class 4 distributor maybe? Potential for good damage but the miniscule power plant and mind-numbingly boring 2s 2m weapon setup would well prevent overpowering the ship. But with a few sacrifices you could build a real glass cannon (which would overheat like crazy too in no time. Balance ;-D!).
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I think the problem with the Viper is less the Vulture and more the fact that the DBS is just better in almost every way for not that much more money. The iCourier also seems to be very similar in performance, yet better than the Viper with it's far superior shields and better weapon loadout.
I agree that a general balance pass on the small pad ships would be a good idea, especially the older 1.0 ships.
A bit more pitch speed and it'll be well balanced in my opinion. Better lateral thrusters are not that much help when other ships can just out turret you (Clipper, FAS, Cobra mkIII, FDS).
I generally wish all small ships were a bit nippier compared to the bigger ships so there was a bit more trading Tank and Power for Speed, rather than the current FAS/FDL have it all state.
Exactly, V4 makes the handling even worse in return for more tankiness, in combat effectiveness I find them pretty equivalent (Note, combat not including the V4's other positivies like great jump range)
I generally wish all small ships were a bit nippier compared to the bigger ships so there was a bit more trading Tank and Power for Speed, rather than the current FAS/FDL have it all state.
Exactly, V4 makes the handling even worse in return for more tankiness, in combat effectiveness I find them pretty equivalent (Note, combat not including the V4's other positivies like great jump range)
Iskariot- it's a Brit game, in this windy little island police cars are just cars driven by the police; they don't go fast, they have minimal modifications beyond a decent radio, lights and siren. If you ask the guys at FD to produce a 'police special' they might turn out a cheap paint job and underpowered engine version... [haha]
I don't think the Viper needs a buff. It's great for boom and zoom against ships at it's level. It's fast enough, well armed and there's not a huge amount of difference in protection compared to a Cobra, say. It's fine where it's at. If you want very agile and massively armed, save for a Vulture. If you want massive firepower, high speed and reasonable agility then keep going until you get to the FAS or FdL. Ships like the Viper should have to wing up to take down harder targets, not just lean on some overpowered aspect to compensate for their size. Likewise smaller ships- Eagles etc- should have to gang up on the Viper to be sure of winning. That's pretty much the situation right now, I really don't want to change that.
Not even to get my fast, op missile and cannon armed pre release Viper back. (Although that was a beast! [big grin])
I don't think the Viper needs a buff. It's great for boom and zoom against ships at it's level. It's fast enough, well armed and there's not a huge amount of difference in protection compared to a Cobra, say. It's fine where it's at. If you want very agile and massively armed, save for a Vulture. If you want massive firepower, high speed and reasonable agility then keep going until you get to the FAS or FdL. Ships like the Viper should have to wing up to take down harder targets, not just lean on some overpowered aspect to compensate for their size. Likewise smaller ships- Eagles etc- should have to gang up on the Viper to be sure of winning. That's pretty much the situation right now, I really don't want to change that.
Not even to get my fast, op missile and cannon armed pre release Viper back. (Although that was a beast! [big grin])
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Good points.
I forgot about the DBS and I love that ship but it does indeed render the viper semi unless (in terms of numbers)
I upgraded my Viper III to a Scout back when that was a big purchase for me, and while I kept flying it and loved the range, now I would much rather fly a Viper than a DBS. I don't know what it is about the flight model, but the Viper just feels "right" and there's something about the Scout that I don't like. I've tried going back to the Scout a few times for fun, and I can never stand it for long.
OK I tried a lighter Viper build. It was not much better than a regular viper in terms of agility. The turn rate was 9.9s as opposed to 10.5s. The roll rate was very similar about 4s. Side thrusters were noticeably better with a lighter build, but they didn't help as much in the turns when the ship was lighter for some reason. Maybe because the turn rate was already optimal with the lighter build? No idea.
Conclusion: the Viper needs a pitch rate buff, maybe a speed buff as well. Shave it down to an 8s turn rate with a mass at 110T and the ship would be more balanced with it's peers, at least in terms of raw combat ability. It would still be terrible in every other respect: Jump range, heat management, power management, overall speed, mass to accleration ratio
Conclusion: the Viper needs a pitch rate buff, maybe a speed buff as well. Shave it down to an 8s turn rate with a mass at 110T and the ship would be more balanced with it's peers, at least in terms of raw combat ability. It would still be terrible in every other respect: Jump range, heat management, power management, overall speed, mass to accleration ratio
Darn cops always wanting more. First, it's "We don't get paid enough and my family is on food stamps". Then "Our guns keep jamming and our shoes have holes in them". So tell me who's going to pay for all these fancy ship upgrades? My taxes, I suspect.