iCourier vs. FAS

[Maelthor]

So I just took my icourier out for a spin in a haz res and the first ship i ran into was a deadly fas with frags. I put 2 pips into engines and, playing around with various throttle positions, was unable to get on his tail...he was turning inside my circle and burning my shields down. I could even boost past him and try and get around him but he was instantly facing me and firing away no matter where I went. I did some damage to him mainly by jousting as i went past to try and get around him, but eventually I BSR'd and went back to base to re-evaluate my setup.

My question is, is the FAS really more agile than a tiny supposedly-nimble ship like the courier? Do I need to go back out and throw 3-4 pips to engines? I feel that the distrib is so poor on the courier that with that much power to engines i'd be limited to running pure kinetics in the hardpoints.

Any thoughts/suggestions from courier veterans? I'm just a bit surprised as I have flown an assortment of craft including the vulture and fas and expected the courier to run circles around the fas.

 

[CMDR Corlas]

The FAS is a combat-beast. I'm not too surprised at this result. Your best bet is going to be to try to start the fight from an advantageous position. Wait for him to scan you and turn the leave, then get in close behind him and open up. Apply as many pips to engines as needed: Elite lets people fudge things a lot, with shields and heavy hulls and all that, but in life-or-death combat, proper positioning is better than getting a few more shots off.

 

[DragoonKnight]

The FAS is probably the 2nd most agile ship in the game, right after the vulture.

It is also all about pip management. 4 pips to engines to get into firing position and then 4 pips to weapons when you open fire on him. There is also the question of what your courier is like and what your skills are as a pilot.

Do you have A rated thrusters? Is your ship loaded down with heavy SCBs and HRP? Did you try using FA off and your manuevering thrusters to get into a better firing position? Were you keeping your throttle in the blue zone the whole time? Did you try boosting and turning?

Hopefully this gives you some ideas for future encounters.

 

[hab5000]

I own both. The only thing the courier does better is acceleration. FAS is best all round combat ship in the game. The courier is still more fun to fly though.

 

[EUS]

The beauty of a NPC outflying you in a FAS is second only to a NPC outflying your FAS in a Clipper.
Constant somersaults. It's the only NPC ship that makes me clench my jaw.

 

[Duane Dibbley]

Tonight I took down the best FAS I've ever fought in my Eagle (have it on vid along with an easier kill just before)..normally they are fairly easy even in an Eagle, but this one had two c3 turrets knocking seven shades of excrement out of me!! I always start with a head on duel, unless I can get on it's six while it scans me & before it completes (very hard!) then I reward this manoeuvre by getting the positional advantage before I fire!

All I'll say is, you must stay really close to the FAS on it's lower third, so that it can't turn on you in a small ship..the fight took me 9 minutes to kill it and it had one brief look at me in a head on, apart from the opening exchange..so no direct hits apart from the turrets! This ship was harder than many PvPs I've had!

 

[Alexander the Grape]

FAS has one of, if not the best turn rate of any ship in the game. It's kinda broken.

The power of the Courier is not in its turn rate but its accel. Like the Viper, it really shines with FA OFF and getting away from knife fighters to press home energy superiority

 

[Chris Simon]

Error number one: "I put 2 pips into engines and, playing around with various throttle positions, was unable to get on his tail"
Solution: Always put 4 pips to engines, when you are trying to outmanouevre more manouvreable ship. (You'll fail, anyway, but it would feel better)

Error number two: Supposing Courier to be highly agile.
She's not, at least with FA on. I love that ship, don't take me wrong and she's in the upper half of the agility ratings, But Eagles, Vulture, FAS, Asp S, they are all better.
You cannot fight against your own ship's weaknesses. You have to utilize her advantages.
Go watch Cillit Bang. He will show you how to fly and fight in a small-and-fast-yet-not-that-manouvreable ship.

 

[Cmdr Aeries Hunter]

So I just took my icourier out for a spin in a haz res and the first ship i ran into was a deadly fas with frags. I put 2 pips into engines and, playing around with various throttle positions, was unable to get on his tail...he was turning inside my circle and burning my shields down. I could even boost past him and try and get around him but he was instantly facing me and firing away no matter where I went. I did some damage to him mainly by jousting as i went past to try and get around him, but eventually I BSR'd and went back to base to re-evaluate my setup.

My question is, is the FAS really more agile than a tiny supposedly-nimble ship like the courier? Do I need to go back out and throw 3-4 pips to engines? I feel that the distrib is so poor on the courier that with that much power to engines i'd be limited to running pure kinetics in the hardpoints.

Any thoughts/suggestions from courier veterans? I'm just a bit surprised as I have flown an assortment of craft including the vulture and fas and expected the courier to run circles around the fas.

The only ships I fly in combat are the Imperial Eagle and the Courier. Both are great ships and both can take down FAS (assuming NPC here), but it is a slippery eel. You do need to change your pips as you fly. 4 pips on engines when maneuvering/attacking and 4 pips to shields if you loose the FAs tail. Both ships can keep on an FAS tail for 95% of the time. You also MUST use FA off and on as needed and use thrusters a lot too in combination of FA off. I had a hard time at first but it will get easier as you go. Also always watch your opponents thrusters and adjust as they change speed and direction. I am still not great but can hold my own against any one on one NPC encounter in my A rated courier and Imperial eagle. In fact I prefer the imperial eagle for this type of combat as I find it maneuvers much more easily, has good fire power for a ship its size and has enough shields to hold out in the very few instances where if you lost concentration and lost your opponents tail. If done right no ship in game can loose an eagle once it is on its tail. It is a lot more work and concentration than just shield or hull tanking, but way more fun.

Edit. Because those ships are so fast, you will rarely use boost and advise against it unless absolutly necessary. with 4 pips to engines should be able to keep up with boosting FAS, as they never boost too long

 

[Spacecat]

Ugh. I've taken a handful of FAS's out and it's always a hassle. Also, I'm wondering about some of the NPC capabilities. The Anaconda that was matching my AspX move for move the other night makes me wonder...

 

[Drink!]

Well, they said NPC will get better. I wonder what they will be like in 2.1.

 

[kofeyh]

So I just took my icourier out for a spin in a haz res and the first ship i ran into was a deadly fas with frags. I put 2 pips into engines and, playing around with various throttle positions, was unable to get on his tail...he was turning inside my circle and burning my shields down. I could even boost past him and try and get around him but he was instantly facing me and firing away no matter where I went. I did some damage to him mainly by jousting as i went past to try and get around him, but eventually I BSR'd and went back to base to re-evaluate my setup.

My question is, is the FAS really more agile than a tiny supposedly-nimble ship like the courier? Do I need to go back out and throw 3-4 pips to engines? I feel that the distrib is so poor on the courier that with that much power to engines i'd be limited to running pure kinetics in the hardpoints.

Any thoughts/suggestions from courier veterans? I'm just a bit surprised as I have flown an assortment of craft including the vulture and fas and expected the courier to run circles around the fas.

FAS is design as a heavy combat ship and it can sit on your tail all day er'y day. It's a beast.

Courier's main claim to fame is very high shields (for the ship size) and acceleration. This is aligned with the CAP that is smaller than reactor. You get in, apply max DPS, boost clear as the opponent presses it's attack, rinse, repeat. The Courier's agility is marked as 6, so unless you utilise FA-OFF to help speed turns; playing follow the leader will lead to some frustration. Also PIP management is pretty much everything.

Remember, there's also quite a difference in cost; you cannot expect a small nimble fighter with 3 medium hardpoints to automatically outgun a ship with 2 mediums and 2 large, that also has the same agility (6).

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Ugh. I've taken a handful of FAS's out and it's always a hassle. Also, I'm wondering about some of the NPC capabilities. The Anaconda that was matching my AspX move for move the other night makes me wonder...

Wonder not. Anaconda has extremely strong thrusters. This is very obvious when you are in supercruise, as the only factor taken into account is agility; it's slow as molasses to turn, yet when back in normal space, it turns on a dime (FA-OFF pitch is pretty quick for such a large ship). This is part of the problem we have at present; the ships all really need a review and realignment.

They won't get it though; because Anaconda and Corvette drivers will demand their boats remain as busted as they are.

 

[Crimson Kaim]

FAS has one of, if not the best turn rate of any ship in the game. It's kinda broken.

The power of the Courier is not in its turn rate but its accel. Like the Viper, it really shines with FA OFF and getting away from knife fighters to press home energy superiority

I wouldn't say it is broken tho. It sacrifices shields and hardpoints.

The FAS doesn't suffer that much from standing outside the blue zone (it is more realistic anyways) so it can turn well at low speeds and basically act like a heavy turret.
The courier is awesome with manouvering thrusters due to it being just... How 'many' tonnes heavy?

Against frags keep distance or outmanouver the FAS to avoid fire (circles, spirals, etc.) but you will have a hard time getting on his tail. Yes, the FAS is very nimble, more than a Viper. This is where it has its power.

 

[PGleesonuk]

One tip I learnt from Vindicator Jones is how useful a leading fixed kinetic weapon sight can be, The circle gives a very clear indication of the targets real direction, not it's attitude. Gives you much more information on how to maneuver your ship to get an advantage.

Current enjoy an FDL with C4PA and 4 x gimballed C2 Pulse.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVoX2luuqTQ

Might even be worth having a small fixed cannon just to give you the sight.

 

[Troy_McClure]

Courier is awesome for taking on the FAS if you keep it light, (probably the best ship for the job along with the Vulture although takes longer obviously)...ideally 80 tns, but anything up to 90 is good too.

It's strong shields mean even turrets won't cause a problem..it is basically a useable Eagle!
It's acceleration is key to staying close - especially with fixed weapons because you don't have the margin for error that gimbals give in a turning battle with the extensive firing arc, hence staying close is the only way to fight one to avoid it's ridiculous 'ED mechanic' bigger ship pitch, unless your ship packs a bigger punch!
Control of boost is paramount..many cmdrs complain they overshoot targets with boost, but this is easy to remedy with thrusters!
.
Here is my Eagle doing it - only 5mins of Shadowplay, so vid is cut-off, it must have taken approx 8 minutes in total. My usual ships are FAS, DBS & Courier..No Courier at the system I'm at this morning!
.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QIizdmNvU0E

.

 

[Moritz Norman]

FAS are the hardest NPC in the game IMO. Not even worth it if you're only concerned about credits.

I had a related question: since learning to fly the FDL I was wondering if there are any smaller ships that are similar to it. I went Vulture -> FAS -> FDL and the FDL is a completely different flying style. The Vulture flies like the FAS. Does anything (Eagle, Viper, Courrier) fly like the FDL / is there an FDL light? I skipped the Courier and was wondering if it flew similar to the FDL.

 

[Chris Simon]

FAS are the hardest NPC in the game IMO. Not even worth it if you're only concerned about credits.

I had a related question: since learning to fly the FDL I was wondering if there are any smaller ships that are similar to it. I went Vulture -> FAS -> FDL and the FDL is a completely different flying style. The Vulture flies like the FAS. Does anything (Eagle, Viper, Courrier) fly like the FDL / is there an FDL light? I skipped the Courier and was wondering if it flew similar to the FDL.

If You are comparing Vulture to FAS, then yes, Courier employ a tactics similar to FdL. In her own erratic way. But as far as the speed and the feel of lateral thrusters go, yes.

 

[Iori]

Frontier gives all the combat ships to the federation, leaving all the crap and the traders to the Empire.

I'm not gifting the game to any of my friends until they fix the horrible balance.

 

[Chris Simon]

Frontier gives all the combat ships to the federation, leaving all the crap and the traders to the Empire.

I'm not gifting the game to any of my friends until they fix the horrible balance.

Sorry, wat? [weird]

All three imperial ships are primarilly combat ships. In comparison to their federal counterparts they have slightly worse weaponry, but are faster and have better shields.
Or do You mean they are not the "hold fire to win" ships like FAS? No, they are not and that, in my eyes, is their biggest plus.

 

[[DOOK] Droogie]

The Courier needs a little help. The distributor is a big problem for it. That, mixed with the fact that even 1t of extra mass has a significant impact on its performance. It also decelerates extremely fast after boost, even with FA off.

Currently, its only useful purpose for me is canyon runs.