Right on, Commander!
The fallacy of how PvP can protect your system from being undermined.
- Thread starter Agony_Aunt
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Right on, Commander!
You know - you could just work for your faction - putting your back into it, no? But the entitlement is probably too strong and the basic game design needs to be altered to your own special needs, right?
That's the core of the problem. It's not your system. It's not even your minor-faction. It's the system you are interested in, it's the minor-faction you support - but it's not yours.
FD made a mistake by introducing minor-factions that are named after player-groups.
Maybe they will add more things to those minor-factions that make them real player group factions, but currently they are just like any other minor-faction.
I would agree with you if the minor-factions would be player only - no NPCs, only player actions affecting the minor-faction it and with members of the player-group having a minor-faction tag.
That would include the requirement to supply the station with all needed stuff - things that currently happen in the background of the BGS (like supply of food, basic commodities…).
The interesting part is, that such a minor-faction would be very save from influence manipulations from Solo or Group Mode. Without minor-faction NPCs players in Solo or Private Groups can't directly interact with that minor-faction.
Many PVE'ers are afraid of PVP.
So if they would be forced to handle with PVP when undermining a minor faction, they would most like just NOT do it.
Thats how I think PVP could stop undermining.
My proposal: Let the Minor Faction choose, whether it wants to be a faction that can be influenced by open only, group or solo or alle 3 of those.
So if they would be forced to handle with PVP when undermining a minor faction, they would most like just NOT do it.
Thats how I think PVP could stop undermining.
My proposal: Let the Minor Faction choose, whether it wants to be a faction that can be influenced by open only, group or solo or alle 3 of those.
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Ok, I was a little hyperbolic, but the point is their fighting was futile, since the enemy was already at their back. The entire campaing lasted just six weeks.
I know that and we do that. The system is not important for anobody else. The only reason to weaken the "Ronin of Amarak"-minor-faction ist to work against the player-group "Ronin of Amarak". So working against a player group should only possible in open-mode. I think all other player-groups, who have their "own" minor faction think like that.
If it's another player group doing the puking, you'll likely know who chose to chunder on your rug, even if they choose not to tell you. If you have enemies, they'd be the prime suspects, no?
Thing is, BGS work takes effort, and it isn't exactly my first choice for instant gratification when it comes to games. This means that if your faction is being hit by another group, there's likely some kind of reason behind it. Whether it's a sound reason is down to individual interpretation many times, but in my experience with and observations of BGS-oriented competition, there's always been a reason for it.
So if someone pukes on your carpet, and you want to find out, ask yourself "whose porch did I curl out a turd on recently?"
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They clearly don't, hence why this thread is now at 16 pages, and groups like Adle's Armada have issued a general hiring call for PvE players.
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Uhh what? When did he do that? He said nothing about how PvPers WANT to play the game, you've apparently missed the entire point. The original post was an explanation of why PvP does nothing to prevent BGS manipulation, EVEN IF it's all done in open.
Don't be silly, there's HEAPS you can do. There's plenty of missions and so on that you can do to lower the opposing faction's influence or raise yours. The only thing you can't do is change influences by shooting players (other than in a CZ). If that's what you really want then you don't want anything to do with factions and having your own, because a faction IS ALL ABOUT THE BACKGROUND SIM. It's got NOTHING to do with PvP. The minute you accept a faction and a station YOU INVOLVE YOURSELF IN THE PvE GAME.
The ONLY thing anyone can do to "help you with the BGS" is to do PvE missions and so on. You've already stated your distaste for that part of the game, so why bother getting so anxious a PvE trophy (a faction) if you don't want to do PvE gaming?
That's got NOTHING to do with the topic... and even if it did it's not a PvE-ers job to provide PvPers with targets! This ISN'T a PvP game, never has been.
Unless you can interdict EVERY undermining PvEer then it's pointless to bother. All you're doing is wasting your time that you could be spending SUPPORTING YOUR OWN SIDE in a wasted endevour.
And there will always be MORE people who are NOT in your instance than people who ARE. Trying to use PvP to prevent a PvE game is pointless.
That's like saying you don't want to win the cricket game by playing cricket, you want to win it by playing football. It's a cricket game... play the game or get off the field. The BGS has nothing to do with PvP. It's a PvE game. If you don't want to play the BGS, don't take up factions.
That doesn't work as all minor-factions within one system are affecting each other. Increasing the influence of faction A results in a reduction of influence of faction B - it's not that simple, but I hope you get the idea.
And what about Open Mode Xbox players? What about player groups that have a Xbox division and a PC division or those who play in a private group - you know they exist. Not all player groups are open mode only (or PvP centric).
Things get complex and complicated very quickly.
"You mean I can do nothing about X-Box players undermining my faction? I demand cross-platform open play immediately."
"Yes, you can - you just need to work the BGS, since it's the same galaxy."
"No, I want to battle them, we need to have mandatory cross-platform open! Or separate galaxies! Remove their gameplay influence on my faction!"
"I don't think we'll be having that."
*throws tantrum and decides to troll ED forum*
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*lol* You are kidding? the BGS ist only player driven. NPCs only spawn when players are present. NPC-factions only can be pushed or weakened by players.
You are thinking of a complexity that is not in the game.
Its part of the game. New civilizations grow. Some die. Its harsh, but space is dangerous!
Try again, find a new home. You can't always win.
So it turns out that PvEer's can also use the quote that PvPer's always throw at them.... 'It's called Elite DANGEROUS'
Who'd have thunk it
I think this all shines a light on the minor faction fiasco. I know people want their groups name in game but its a half baked system and I am genuinely baffled why people are so bothered about it. It seems pointless to me to have a faction in game that isn't under our control. If FD want to put in guilds/clans they need to do it properly. But as AA said, the game is almost entirely PvE; that being the problem. I wouldn't mind if it were awesome PvE but its far from it. I've no interest in getting into a grinding competition with other players and as a result the BGS holds next to no interest for me.
I replied to your comment that player group adopted minor-factions should only be influence by activity in Open Mode.
There are only NPC-factions in this game. Minor-factions with the name of a player groups are just that NPC minor-factions with the name of a player group.
If players affect the influence of minor-faction A it will affect on the other minor-factions in the same time.
If minor-faction A can only be influenced in Open Mode (PC), then what happens if minor-faction B is influenced in solo? What happens if minor-faction B is influenced in Open Mode (Xbox)? What happens if minor-faction B gets massively boosted up to 90% in solo while player-group-named-NPC-minor-faction A has 40% influence in Open Mode?
If FD wanted to implement something like what you want, then the system required to achieve that would get complex and complicated quickly since a lot of variables, possible situations and other aspects have to be taken into consideration.
So it turns out that PvEer's can also use the quote that PvPer's always throw at them.... 'It's called Elite DANGEROUS'
Who'd have thunk it
Thats the joke.
I do PVE and PVP. Great way to get the full experience.
You think too complicated ;-) Systems with minor-factions connected to player-groups are only reachable in open-mode. It is as simple as the rank-dependend system-permissions.
All modes are equal.
If a rank-dependend permission is possible it's a few lines of code to implement a mode-dependend permission. I'm software-engineer ;-)
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Whether or not such a change may be (relatively) simple to implement, it is for Frontier to determine whether such a change is needed in the first place. A fundamental aspect of the game is that each and every player experiences and affects a single shared galaxy state - regardless of game mode or platform - this has been part of the stated game design since the outset of the Kickstarter, over three years ago.
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