What went wrong with Elite Dangerous

[Axel Deathrage]

Group tags would annoy me, but that's just because I'm a grumpy old fart. Having some sort of geoup identifier would be fine, I just don't want to put up with seeing Cmdr SpaceL0rd[DukezOfAllYorBaseAreBel0ngToMe] etc flying around. Put it in the contact info or somewhere like that. Group chat... yeah sure... within the context of the space you're in... or your wing.

The problem with fleet management etc (as Braben said many times) is it takes you out of the cockpit and into a spreadsheet. It also would then require an npc equivalent or suddenly you've got open-only content. It's also technically problematic with ED's current networking and instancing.

I don't think group tags would have to be that long, in most games they're like 3-5 letters. But yeah I get it, I wouldn't want to see [lolsuckmywiener69xx] tags either. If I had a bounty hunter group, I the group tag would be [COOL] or [RAD]. And by group chat I mean a chat that is shared between everyone who has the same group tag, so for example my bounty hunter group could communicate and someone could tell others that "pirate CMDR high-waked to system X" etc. Just a bigger wing chat.

But yes, we're now on the same page. And like I edited to one of my posts earlier that I tried to act as somekind of messenger between the reddit thread and this thread, the variety comment was really by them. So far, I'm fine with what the game has to offer, but I will be really really happy if group tags and group chat will be added to the game, since this would make easier for players to create a little more of their own content.

I hope I didn't make your blood boil too much.

 

[Sole Hunter]

This too, is important, you see threads complaining about lack of people in open, because people want victims, not once do they think that maybe they themselves could be (depending naturally on who it is) part of the reason they don't find many victims in open, the good old, interdict and blow people up, isn't exactly something that motivates people to go join open, if they are at the whim of some random person that is in the mood to just blow people up to see pixels belonging to other players explode.

There is a lot of carebears in this game not gonna lie if people would stop telling others to go in solo and actually teach them how to get better you wouldn't have this problem. There is literally nothing wrong with losing a ship, learn the hard way and get better and you will eventually have all the tools in hand to avoid getting killed and more people in open will want to help and contribute to the community.

 

[DaveL]

It's a sandbox without sand.


More like a gigantic, truly huge, sandbox with sand stretching out for miles in every direction, but only two actual toys in the entire thing.


A beach if you will.


And if you want to go in the water, you have to buy a season pass.


And when you get into the water, there's still no sand on the bottom, only rocks. And water.


Yes, but you can walk on the rocks now. Isn't that spectacular? What? No, there's nothing on it. What did you expect? It's a rock. If you want stuff to do on the rock, give me more money.

QFT .

 

[Karl Marx]

Honestly, SC is looking better and better every day. They better make some massive improvements to the game by the end of season 2 or I think they're pretty much done. The game is incredibly shallow and honestly feels lifeless when playing it. Which would be fine if inhabited space was sparse and stations weren't so massive... but human space is large, supposedly wildly populated, and stations are MASSIVE... as such, no - the scale is all off and the "features" are shallow as hell. A sandbox is only as good as the tools it has within it... this game has very few tools. Which is a crying shame because it has/had so much potential.

 

[frostypaw]

There is a lot of carebears in this game not gonna lie if people would stop telling others to go in solo and actually teach them how to get better you wouldn't have this problem. There is literally nothing wrong with losing a ship, learn the hard way and get better and you will eventually have all the tools in hand to avoid getting killed and more people in open will want to help and contribute to the community.

You think if we become 'better' fighters suddenly all the gankers will turn all smiley and helpful?

It's good of you to lighten the mood at this hour

There's nothing that can stop a small ship getting pounded by a concerted effort by a wing of large ships - the skill and challenge would be in fighting fairer fights.

 

[Karl Marx]

There is a lot of carebears in this game not gonna lie if people would stop telling others to go in solo and actually teach them how to get better you wouldn't have this problem. There is literally nothing wrong with losing a ship, learn the hard way and get better and you will eventually have all the tools in hand to avoid getting killed and more people in open will want to help and contribute to the community.

I'll be totally honest, I fly an A fitted shieldless type-9 in open. Why? Because I see someone maybe twice a week at best. Not worried about it... also, back when it was more populated, people never really bugged me. I was pulled from warp once by someone, I told him I didn't have anything of any value, he scanned my ship and agreed and we parted ways. lol

Which brings up another problem btw... the game is far too large for the tiny population it has.

 

[Sole Hunter]

I never wanted Elite to be EVE, that's why I'm playing Elite in the first place. To get away from the "click in space" mechanics of EVE.

You have been missing the point though: People want more content. They want to find an abandoned pirate station in middle of space. They want to see stations built in asteroids. They want -variety- (Stuff like Freelancer had, man I love that game! )

I know it's not gonna be added just in a week. I've made few games of my own and I'm making another project right now, and it's taking LOTS of time.

It seems most of the people in that thread are feeling "deceived." They expected more than the game had to offer.

The first impressions didn't come out in the right way, and people are biased because of that. I'm not blaming anyone for that.

And the "what went wrong with X?" is a common title in that subreddit, but I understand if you didn't know this. Yes, very sensationalist, I don't really like that subreddit personally because of that.

I think a lot of the criticisms raised are valid in the same way that I also think the response ''Then Elite isn't for you right now. Come back in a year or to.'' is perhaps the only valid response to these types of threads.

Yes the game needs work, yes there will be more to do in the future. However these sort of threads, while I'm sure FD appreciate the feedback, is not going to sway their timeline of content releases too heavily. Which works for me. I don't want Elite to be something that spews all its content out and then struggles for ideas. I love that I can play it for a month or so, then leave it for up to half a year at a time, then come back knowing there will be *something* new.

So in short... yeah... if Elite doesn't have something for you right now, come back later. Or don't, that is also okay.

QFT .

It will never be EVE but there's nothing wrong with taking bits of great ideas from other games and making them better in this game. The big selling point of this game is a big universe but it's filled with NOTHING. Wide as an ocean but as deep as a puddle!

There's a reason why people are whinning and feeling deceived. We've had zero content for the past 6 months. The game is in an attrocious state. You have thousands of people complaining about the game on reddit and steam about the lack of content, buggy missions, buggy NPC's...etc Hell the core features don't even work properly and they expect us to re-buy the game for 49$.

I'm sure the devs are aware of this problem but I personnally will not buy the next season pass if nothing is done to massively improve the game and it's just a matter of time before people like me will drift away from the game.

 

[Sandmann]

There is a lot of carebears in this game not gonna lie if people would stop telling others to go in solo and actually teach them how to get better you wouldn't have this problem. There is literally nothing wrong with losing a ship, learn the hard way and get better and you will eventually have all the tools in hand to avoid getting killed and more people in open will want to help and contribute to the community.

You've been told before... they go to solo because they DON'T WANT the PvP game, NOT because they're unable. The only reason you attempt to maintain the fiction is because you need it to justify your demands and accusations.

 

[lysan]

Honestly, SC is looking better and better every day. They better make some massive improvements to the game by the end of season 2 or I think they're pretty much done. The game is incredibly shallow and honestly feels lifeless when playing it. Which would be fine if inhabited space was sparse and stations weren't so massive... but human space is large, supposedly wildly populated, and stations are MASSIVE... as such, no - the scale is all off and the "features" are shallow as hell. A sandbox is only as good as the tools it has within it... this game has very few tools. Which is a crying shame because it has/had so much potential.

SC are looking better to YOU, others see something else, so while we are waiting for this miracle to happen, ED will progress.

 

[Karl Marx]

SC are looking better to YOU, others see something else, so while we are waiting for this miracle to happen, ED will progress.

Not really. SC is looking better because it's going to accomplish the same features ED promised earlier than ED ever will. Nice try though.

 

[frostypaw]

There's a reason why people are whinning and feeling deceived. We've had zero content for the past 6 months.

Do you mean you've not been drip fed anything new? There's been a lot going on in the last six months and there's a fair few tonnes of content you've not touched, missions no one has done and many many secrets still hidden.

This isn't a monthly comic serial either

 

[lysan]

It will never be EVE but there's nothing wrong with taking bits of great ideas from other games and making them better in this game. The big selling point of this game is a big universe but it's filled with NOTHING. Wide as an ocean but as deep as a puddle!

There's a reason why people are whinning and feeling deceived. We've had zero content for the past 6 months. The game is in an attrocious state. You have thousands of people complaining about the game on reddit and steam about the lack of content, buggy missions, buggy NPC's...etc Hell the core features don't even work properly and they expect us to re-buy the game for 49$.

I'm sure the devs are aware of this problem but I personnally will not buy the next season pass if nothing is done to massively improve the game and it's just a matter of time before people like me will drift away from the game.

Not every one can be happy or satisfied, that is the nature of life. You will maybe leave, others will arrive. I hope FD will keep the focus on the vision for ED, and not crave in to the masses to get a quick buck. That will ruin the game completely, we know what the scope is, and the only problem is that we wanted it yesterday. Just look at SC, they will do & say anything to get money, everything from drink mixers and toilets to PG birds.

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Not really. SC is looking better because it's going to accomplish the same features ED promised earlier than ED ever will. Nice try though.

LMAO, no that is according to YOU, and YOU do not represent everyone.

 

[Triple88a]

Elite is filled with problems.

The first expansion should have been content to make the core better. Hand crafted systems that included nebula clouds and such, more hand crafted systems especially ones that are suppose to be main systems for factions. it should have been focused on more content like better missions, even story missions for each faction. For example currently theres 0 difference between some empty world 200ly outside of the bubble vs a home system with billions of people population and that is a big problem with immersion. Better weapons, better ships etc. Basically the stuff that makes it a better SPACE game. Not something parallel to the game like landing on rocks. That should have waited until next year at the earliest.

 

[dutchy2000]

Not really. SC is looking better because it's going to accomplish the same features ED promised earlier than ED ever will. Nice try though.

Yawn, call me back when I can actually install and play that game. Because at the current rate I will be long dead and buried before that happens. Duke Nukem forever all over again.

 

[Karl Marx]

LMAO, no that is according to YOU, and YOU do not represent everyone.

That's according to what they've ALREADY accomplished. It's a fact. Deal with it. They already have walking around, they already have face-to-face interaction, they already have modular ships, damage models, interactive systems, and far more advanced subsystem control. It also looks substantially better and have a far more advanced groundwork in place for missions that are obtained through something other than just some random bulletins window.

Agree with me or not, I couldn't care less. The fact is that what I'm saying there is real. You can go play around with it right this second. However, you might crash a few times due to bugs.

Now look, I'm no fan of the way SC is being made, I'm not a fan of their money grabbing or anything like that but the fact STILL remains that a game is only as good as the tools it provides to the player to play it. ED has very few tools - SC is going to have substantially more and the tools it has right now are are already better thought out and better executed which leads to better immersion. And here I was, one of those guys calling the game a scam - nope, it just takes a lot more time and money to produce because the quality is so much higher.

I'll likely play both games, but ONLY if FD gets off its ass and starts fixing the huge glaring issues and the pathetic lack of tools (content that doesn't just follow the same pattern of use as every other bit of content it has had since 1.0). You may want to rely on your imagination but I want to manipulate the universe in the way I was promised I'd be able to back in pre-alpha and design stages of the game. I see no evidence of any of that coming.

 

[Banana's_Are_Good_For_You]

It will never be EVE but there's nothing wrong with taking bits of great ideas from other games and making them better in this game. The big selling point of this game is a big universe but it's filled with NOTHING. Wide as an ocean but as deep as a puddle!

There's a reason why people are whinning and feeling deceived. We've had zero content for the past 6 months. The game is in an attrocious state. You have thousands of people complaining about the game on reddit and steam about the lack of content, buggy missions, buggy NPC's...etc Hell the core features don't even work properly and they expect us to re-buy the game for 49$.

I'm sure the devs are aware of this problem but I personnally will not buy the next season pass if nothing is done to massively improve the game and it's just a matter of time before people like me will drift away from the game.

I don't think you're doing it right.
Elite isn't a game that spoon feeds content. You have to go looking for it.

 

[Karl Marx]

Yawn, call me back when I can actually install and play that game. Because at the current rate I will be long dead and buried before that happens. Duke Nukem forever all over again.

Huh. Apparently you've got a slow internet connection or a computer that doesn't meet the requirements for running it. Works just fine for me outside of the standard alpha/beta bugs that most games have. Heck, I remember ED back when jumping would crash your computer almost every time.

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I don't think you're doing it right.
Elite isn't a game that spoon feeds content. You have to go looking for it.

That would be great... if there was more content to actually find.

 

[Beast Mode]

I should preface this by saying that I love this game regardless of its flaws and have dedicated a significant number of hours of my life toward existing in its universe. I also don't necessarily want it to be more like EVE when it comes to player influence.

With that out of the way, I can say that I feel its biggest flaw is the sheer lack of productive things to do.

Yes, the game is simply lacking in activities that efficiently allow you to progress in whatever aspect of the game the player is currently focusing on. Some examples:

Flaw: Currently, if you're trying to gain naval rank with a faction, a ridiculously high percentage of the missions available aren't worth doing. The gap in reputation offered by different mission types is too vast.
Result: Experienced players will ignore most missions. Ignored missions are wasted content.

Flaw: Trading Imperial Slaves is significantly more efficient at earning you credits than any other commodity.
Result: This renders most if not all trade loops that do not involve trading Imperial Slaves obsolete. The community does most of its trading in specific Imperial/Independent systems and ignores other routes.

Flaw: There are really only two viable ways to earn credits from combat: RES, or Conflict Zones.
Result: Other potential avenues for earning a living as a bounty hunter (such as missions) are largely ignored except by inexperienced players.

Flaw: After picking up a mission, NPCs will often approach you and make a counter-offer. This is a cool idea, but said counter-offers are always massively inferior to the original reward.
Result: Every time you're presented with a counter-offer this way, it is effectively a non-choice unless you want to "abandon" the mission without officially abandoning it.


A while back David Braben commented on the subject of the game's lack of content, or at least, the community's perception of it. Paraphrasing, he said that the game is full of content, but most players just do one or two things. The implication here was that players get comfortable doing just a few activities and never really choose to branch out, but that is not what is going on here. The player-base will mostly gravitate toward whatever activities are the most rewarding for whatever progression path they're currently working on, whether that's earning credits, naval rank, exploration rank, etc. And currently there are too few "right paths" to take and too many wrong ones that really just serve to trip up inexperienced CMDRs and waste their time.

Ultimately, I think there are two competing gameplay philosophies here: FD would like us to just "experience the game", but large segments of the community are more interested in "progressing through the game".

 

[Sole Hunter]

You've been told before... they go to solo because they DON'T WANT the PvP game, NOT because they're unable. The only reason you attempt to maintain the fiction is because you need it to justify your demands and accusations.

No, no and no please stop this freaking cancerous carebear mentality.

That's not true and stop saying this is a fact. There are plenty of people who don't know how to play the game properly. Just because you don't like dying doesn't mean you have to justify it by telling others to go in solo when they die.

If you teach people how to properly play the game they will not be afraid to go in open. The same way you teach people in EVE not to be afraid of nullsec. It's not difficult to learn how to use your brain.

You need to understand the best way to learn is to learn the hard way. There is nothing wrong with dying, it's part of the game. What would a spaceship game be without the risk of dying? Hell, the game is called Elite Dangerous! it's not about the pvp and it's not about open. You have all the TOOLS necessary and available to you to prevent PVP. There is literally no difference between dying from an NPC and a player, the end result is the same. YOU DIE.

It's about the fact that the game doesn't teach new players how to get better. Go read most of the reviews about this game you will see that 90% of them will tell you that the game is difficult for a new player, the videos in the menu are simply not enough.

People want REWARDS over their destiny in games. They want to feel like they have some control over their goals. They want to own and learn from their failures, they want to feel like they earned their victories, and they want to have a road-map. That's an irrational goal to have in this game because half the stuff is broken or not working properly. It's irrational and depressing to set a goal that you have no conceivable road-map or plan by which to achieve said goal. It's like setting sail in a ship and hoping you will run ashore in Japan. No compass, no maps, no knowledge of the sky. Why do you think we have so many exploiters, robigo, robigo, robigo. This aint no sandbox if there is no sand to begin with. Who the eck think it was a good idea to ship horizon with 1 single type of rock to shoot?

People don't mind playing games they enjoy, they don't mind spending time acquiring the upgrades they want/need, they don't mind waiting a bit, they don't mind having challenges to overcome. These things a great game do make! However putting walls in front of them with no other options is depressing and that's how people quit, combat log or switch to carebear solo mode. There is a reason why people are whinning and they are very much valid.

What do you have to lose to reward your players and to adjust the reward system? Isn't the goal to have fun? Give your players a feeling of progression and they will give back to the community...they will play the game and if they really like it they will spend money no matter what. Players wants to feel like they are reaching a goal. They want to feel rewarded for spending time in-game and if they get what they want it will not matter whether or not they are in open/solo or private.

We have a few goals for the different factions but for what purpose? it's blind faith to imagine or to even consider that this system increase the quality or to even think it adds more depth to the game. I don't have blind faith in video games. I don't have blind faith in anything for that matter. It's de-moralizing to players. The fact is, without a solid loot-rewarding system or giving control to the players every actions you do or take will feel unrewarding in pp/bgs, and a playerbase that feels empowered by playing and controlling it's goals is all meaningless and if you keep reminding them that they will not progress the same way unless they exploit the game then they will quit. An experience that would not have been complete without failure, commitment, and challenge that's what we want.

It's not about open, it's not about pvp, it's about the simple fact that the game is lacking in terms of features to help new players enjoy it.

 

[frostypaw]

Whenever the Star Citizen folk start you just need to post their own videos.
[video=youtube;1KCmktsC9e0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KCmktsC9e0&nohtml5=False[/video]
sounds awesome. look at that realistic model of a solar system.

That's kinda the problem with asking for hand crafted systems with nebulae and SFX - that's just not what's out there. what you're asking for is not the model of the milky way but a total fiction with impossible features. to an aircraft pilot do you think there's much difference between different countries other than the voice of the ATC?

If you're buying Elite you're buying the milky way and 2001, not cartoons and schlock scifi like Battlefield Earth