Before upgrade, Python was better, after, Fdl was better. Simple as that.
So someone keeps arguing that the Python is better then the FDL at PvP...I'm open to changing my mind...
- Thread starter Crusina Luachra
- Start date
I know what you re thinking. Lots of PVP players have silent running and running away and chaffing tactics.
I hate that sneaky method. Anyway it does not help against me.
Because i know how to do combat and i know that speed and agility is nothing compared to shields and firepower.
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If you can't outmaneuver your opponent and get him in your convergence zone, all you have is vacuum to shoot and a protracted fight, giving you more time to watch your shields get chipped away or to run for it.
The whole point we're all making is not your suggested "run and chaff" tactics. It's getting behind you and staying behind you. FDL thrusters and speed are more than sufficient to keep out of a Python's convergence zone while in close quarters, and boost tactics won't work as 4 pips to engines FA-off turns, boost speed, effectiveness of bleeding excess boost speed in an FDL compared to a Python, and superior total boosts per capacitor/recharge speed all translate to complete dominance of respective ship direction,positions, and vector.
The only time I'd agree with your "speed and agility is nothing compared to shields and firepower" argument is when punching above your weight class - i.e. when turrets are a risk. That's not the case here however, so I would completely disagree.
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While I don't usually PvP I really wonder: what is this "firepower" you speak of in your Python build, if you're rocking two medium laser turrets against chaffing and probably silent running FdLs?
many one sided opinions here. don't understand this obsession with 'the meta' and having one single ship outclassing everything else. piloting is the defining factor above anything else and, like someone mentioned, knowing the strengths and weaknesses of your ship and those of your opponent.
the python is indeed a formidable ship and in the hands of someone experienced can do quite good. not the one i would choose for combat, but it literally swims in power which allows for a powerful outfit and makes it a good scb based tank (although it got hit hard by the scb nerf). handling is not great but not as bad as it seems and ok'ish once you get the hang of it, provided it is fitted lightly. however, it will have a hard time circling a fdl. can it outlast the fdl by sheer power? sometimes it will, depends on the pilots ...
i think most of people in this thread doesn't actually pvp much. in pve you can kill basically anything with anything so it's easy to get the wrong impression that you are sitting in an uber ship, but that's just shooting ducks.
the python is indeed a formidable ship and in the hands of someone experienced can do quite good. not the one i would choose for combat, but it literally swims in power which allows for a powerful outfit and makes it a good scb based tank (although it got hit hard by the scb nerf). handling is not great but not as bad as it seems and ok'ish once you get the hang of it, provided it is fitted lightly. however, it will have a hard time circling a fdl. can it outlast the fdl by sheer power? sometimes it will, depends on the pilots ...
i think most of people in this thread doesn't actually pvp much. in pve you can kill basically anything with anything so it's easy to get the wrong impression that you are sitting in an uber ship, but that's just shooting ducks.
He who controls the fight, controls the universe... or some such. Should be a PvP mantra. 
I own both the FDL and Python.
PvE wise, the FDL wins for me hands down, 100% of the time.
PvP I've only ever done in my FDL so I can't compare.
Python is a good ship, but mine always ran in to trouble in some PvE situations.
The same situation in my FDL and I won't even need to fire off an SCB.
I believe the Python has a much higher damage output, but combined with lower manoeuvrability, heat management, and generally easy to hit target, it just doesn't seem to hold out as long. It's probably my flying, no doubt. I guess the FDL suits my style more.
I use my Python as a trader and explorer mostly now.
PvE wise, the FDL wins for me hands down, 100% of the time.
PvP I've only ever done in my FDL so I can't compare.
Python is a good ship, but mine always ran in to trouble in some PvE situations.
The same situation in my FDL and I won't even need to fire off an SCB.
I believe the Python has a much higher damage output, but combined with lower manoeuvrability, heat management, and generally easy to hit target, it just doesn't seem to hold out as long. It's probably my flying, no doubt. I guess the FDL suits my style more.
I use my Python as a trader and explorer mostly now.
The AI is a big part of that. PvE I find Pythons amongst the easiest opponents ( aside from pure traders ) - and I fly one myself. I do not know why bot the AI really does bad with the Python...
Yeah python NPC is one of the easiest targets in the game.
NPC FdL is also one of the easiest targets.
I'm going to break this down real simple. In PvP which ship you are in doesn't really matter so long as you have a decent load out and even that's not that big of a deal. What it comes down to is pilot skill. An Elite in a cobra III will wax a harmless or mostly harmless Python or FdL and he/she has a better than even chance against a low ranked 'Conda. An Elite in an Eagle can make for a very bad day for a newbie in an FdL. Maybe the Elite in the Eagle won't take him, but he will give him one HELL of a bloody nose and he just might take him. Pilot skill is ALL IMPORTANT!!!
True...
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Sorta true but try that with a commander in an FAS.
True again, try that on a +1 gravity world. The Elite Eagle will mostly win, no matter what.
Pointless discussion.
All I care about is how good my current target is in his/her current ship and loadout.
How good my target think he/she is makes no real difference to me!
Although over confident is preferable.
Most ppl get panicky when that confidence shaters
I got both ships but for combat it's the FDL by far for me.
Simply don't have enough 1 on 1 pvp experience to judge on the matter.
All I can tell you is what pops in my head when I see a python wile flying 1 of my FDL's... "fresh meat! Muhaha"
All I care about is how good my current target is in his/her current ship and loadout.
How good my target think he/she is makes no real difference to me!
Although over confident is preferable.
Most ppl get panicky when that confidence shaters
I got both ships but for combat it's the FDL by far for me.
Simply don't have enough 1 on 1 pvp experience to judge on the matter.
All I can tell you is what pops in my head when I see a python wile flying 1 of my FDL's... "fresh meat! Muhaha"
i've never heard of you, and i know a lot of top pvp'ers
and that you still follow the shield meta in this meta makes it kind of obvious
Nothing beats rail guns, they are just too overpowered with synthesis
i've never heard of you, and i know a lot of top pvp'ers
and that you still follow the shield meta in this meta makes it kind of obvious
Nothing beats rail guns, they are just too overpowered with synthesis
One huge problem with rails is that they are so unbalanced for pvp vs pve. 30 shots are nothing for pve but plenty for pvp.
It is problematic to compare a buffed up deathboat of PvP (FDL) with a multi-tool (Python).
On paper the python has the better defense hitpoint wise, you simply can put in more HRPs
or run it with backup shields and HRPs.
The Python has 5 hardpoints, as does the FDL and the python can handle 5-rail fittings with ease.
I think it comes down to combat skill,
and maneuvering skills.
A lot of players i encountered are running the FDL rail build, but know nothing of basic piloting.
On paper the python has the better defense hitpoint wise, you simply can put in more HRPs
or run it with backup shields and HRPs.
The Python has 5 hardpoints, as does the FDL and the python can handle 5-rail fittings with ease.
I think it comes down to combat skill,
and maneuvering skills.
A lot of players i encountered are running the FDL rail build, but know nothing of basic piloting.
Still comes down to pilot skill. An ace in an FdL will wax a lesser pilot in a FAS. I don't have a FAS but I tell you this, an ace in a FdL would clean my clock with me in a FAS. He'd probably do it in a Python. I don't care how much fire power you have, if you don't know how to use it properly (or are unable to cause he stays on your six all the time) you're going to have a very bad day. An ace surgeon with a student scalpel can operate rings around a bumbler with the best scalpel ever made. Don't worry about the ship. Work on your pilot skills. That's what's going to decide the match.
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Exactly. In PvP, pilot skill is at least 95% of the equation.
Oh, I'm fairly comfortable with my skills. I'm not an ace but I'm no pushover either. Skills matter but so do ships and some have weaknesses that can be readily exploited depending on matchup and load out. Preparation is at least as important as overal skills. To say it doesn't matter and it's all down to skills is just not true. What I can do in my FAS is well beyond what I can do in a VM4 for example. 95% is a HUGE exaggeration.
Ok. Let me revise that. In ships of comparable size, pilot skill is 95% of the equation. Of course if you go against a FAS in a Viper IV, you're probably going to get your tail kicked. But in ships of comparable size, Adder, Cobra, Asp or FdL, Python, Gunship class, skill counts more than the ship when going against a ship in the same size range.
I've seen a FdL make FAS's, Gunships, Corvettes run away. If they'd have stayed, they'd have been a debris field. Granted this guy is an Ace even though he's only ranked Master, last I heard. Bout fell out of my chair when I saw his combat ranking, he is that good. You can find a lot of his videos on the FA Off appreciation thread. He eats Pythons for breakfast in his FdL. Sorry, but when fighting in your weight class PvP depends on pilot skill.