I do hope Season 2 helps Piracy - Today's experience just confirms to me it doesn't work very well...

[Minonian]

Go find me a quote then of a pirate describing himself as a good guy, nobody makes excuses you've created a witch hunt for something that doesn't exist

I think we both used poor words so let me repeat myself. they are searching excuses, to make their behaviour accaptable. Well, here is a thing! It's not acceptable, and no mater what they saying its not became acceptable and thus, tolerable. This is what we meant, when we said "good guys"

Because, what they are doing are hurting the other players, and thats everything just not acceptable, especially in the eyes of their victims.

 

[Derath]

I think we both used poor words so let me repeat myself. they are searching excuses, to make their behaviour accaptable. Well, here is a thing! It's not acceptable, and no mater what they saying its not became acceptable and thus, tolerable. This is what we meant, when we said "good guys"

Because, what they are doing are hurting the other players, and thats everything just not acceptable, especially in the eyes of their victims.

Thats a much better argument to make but I personally don't think I ever needed justification to pirate, you are playing a villain there is now two ways around it, but I had fun playing a villain and fun is the only currency that matters in a videogame. Why would you need an excuse for that? The behaviors acceptable because its a game, as you agreed with above people who can't separate fantasy from reality shouldn't be playing at all.

 

[Minonian]

Why would you need an excuse for that?

See? that's what these kind of morons did not get!

The behaviors acceptable because its a game,

No it's not. You know why? because despite the fact, this is a game, they are still causing harm the other players ingame progress.

For an example? You know what Minecraft is? Lets just say you build something really awesome with moths of gameplay, and a lots and lots of mindwork, and dedication.
Now, imagine a griefer whom saying i can destroy this because it's fun, and you have no right to deny this from me. because this is my role...

Absurd isn't it?
Now let me ask you did he caused some real serious harm? Of course he did!

 

[Derath]

See? that's what these kind of morons did not get!


No it's not. You know why? because despite the fact, this is a game, they are still causing harm the other players ingame progress.

For an example? You know what Minecraft is? Lets just say you build something really awesome with moths of gameplay, and a lots and lots of mindwork, and dedication.
Now, imagine a griefer whom saying i can destroy this because it's fun, and you have no right to deny this from me. because this is my role...

Absurd isn't it?
Now let me ask you did he caused some real serious harm? Of course he did!

Adversity is an integral part of achievement, you may as well ask for a game without hostile NPC's.

Are the developers villains for programming the AI as well? There are two equal modes available at anytime for players who don't want to engage with anybody/friendlies only and they can choose to go there at any time and they won't ever see me. If open was literally the only mode you might have a case here but it isn't, nobody has to deal with me if they don't want to.

Thats identical to a minecraft server, you can't invade they have permissions, don't want people? Turn them off

 

[Minonian]

Adversity is an integral part of achievement, you may as well ask for a game without hostile NPC's.

Sandbox mode. In case of MC creative. / peaceful difficulty you can do anything you can unleash your creativity without restrictions. probably the worst example you can find...

Are the developers villains for programming the AI as well?

Wrong example. What they are doing is the game ITSELF.

Thats identical to a minecraft server, you can't invade they have permissions, don't want people? Turn them off

Your mistake? they do invade mostly with hacking. giving themselfes premissions.
And after thats they are still saying what they are doing is legit, its ok...

REALLY? how so???

 

[Derath]

Look you can be a pacifist, but this is the "game itself" there is no difference between a player and the AI in terms of results except for competence, if its OK for the AI its OK for me .

It isn't a sandbox this isn't minecraft, in minecraft in creation mode your only adversary is patience and realization of your vision that doesn't mean its without adversity on the contrary every single impressive minecraft creation i've ever seen has taken an extremely long time to create, you are arguing that placing a single block is identical to creating a replica of the titanic it isn't, one had an enormous amount more adversity so no, it really isn't a bad example.

If its an achievement, it had adversity, thats what integral means afterall.

 

[Barmatyr]

Please can someone tell what work in this "game" ???

 

[Minonian]

Look you can be a pacifist, but this is the "game itself" there is no difference between a player and the AI in terms of results except for competence, if its OK for the AI its OK for me .

Yes there is a difference!
The "AI" don't have a choice. It's simply does what he created for.
But you do!
So? for it's ok to the AI its not became ok to you!

And now we approaching final paradox of the whole situation. I said i can accept if you play the role of the pirate. Yes... I can accept as a role, but i can't accept the fact you are a pirate, and no matter how you try to make it up? It's not going to be acceptable.

Why? Because its punished by the ingame laws. And shunned by the gamers society. And let's see? If you are punished by law, and shunned outcasted by the society, than what you are?

A criminal... by every term, and by the eyes of society. And if both terminology stands than you can't talk your way out of this mark on your forehead. And make no mistake! To the people it's hard enough even to tolerate pirates and griefers, and most of them DO NOT tolerate them, and sure as hell they are never going to accept neither your reasoning, nor your existence.

Is that all.

 

[Derath]

All I can say is good for you for having the courage of your convictions and thanks for at least being polite

 

[Minonian]

All I can say is good for you for having the courage of your convictions and thanks for at least being polite

What i'm doing right now, its not conviction, but how the world works, and society looks upon you.
this is not me, but the world.

Talking about myself and Kristov?
We know the difference and we don't trying to make up excuses to ourselves.
And just like krisov i too have a darker side, i'm simply unleash it elsewhere. You know what it is?
Hunting trolls, and eating them for breakfast.

By dozens.
Every day.
They can't even make me flinch or sweat. No matter how many try to get a piece out of me. And usually i do this battles in 2-3 places, (just to say a number) and dozens of threads. simultaneously.
What can i say? At least my little hobby keeps in check the average idioticism in the world, and time after time i'm able to deal a huge blow to this kind of moronism, pseudosciences your average political miscreants, conspiration theories, and the list goes on, and on, and on...

And you know where is the difference between us and the delusional morons what are we talking about?
We can be dealt and reasoned with in the matter of fact this is what we do, this is what we want. But them?
No way!
They are worms and you either crush them or let them to spread the rot following them wherever they crawl...

 

[Dreams]

I think there should be a request surrender input...then attacked ship accept ,reject or ignore pressing just one key...I think this way is more real, not all people like talking but a single key input can let all us know about intentions and decide based on that.

A ranking for pirate is also nice idea...like assasins should be known in a big area aroud where they last operated.

That kind of things would make me not to avoid all pirates encounters.

 

[Minonian]

I think there should be a request surrender input...then attacked ship accept ,reject or ignore pressing just one key...I think this way is more real, not all people like talking but a single key input can let all us know about intentions and decide based on that.

A ranking for pirate is also nice idea...like assasins should be known in a big area aroud where they last operated.

That kind of things would make me not to avoid all pirates encounters.

Sound idea. But allow me to say my part about giving up any cargo. I'm probably the 4'th player who simply unmapped, the eject all cargo button...

 

[Zeeman]

I think we both used poor words so let me repeat myself. they are searching excuses, to make their behaviour accaptable. Well, here is a thing! It's not acceptable, and no mater what they saying its not became acceptable and thus, tolerable. This is what we meant, when we said "good guys"

Because, what they are doing are hurting the other players, and thats everything just not acceptable, especially in the eyes of their victims.

It is, however, part of the game. NPC's hurt players, hell stations blow players away for not docking fast enough, or sitting over the wrong docking bay a tad too long, or even for forgetting to get clearance to dock...

The game is about roleplay. You play the role of a long pilot of an incredible space going vessel. You are free to choose your path, it's there int he game description. I'm not making excuses for pirates, I'm just stating that they are meant to be part of the game, and it is expected that there will be players who decide they want to be space going pirates.

Yet, they are incredibly easy to avoid, even in open...

Z...

 

[_Fissure]

I think there should be a request surrender input...then attacked ship accept ,reject or ignore pressing just one key...I think this way is more real, not all people like talking but a single key input can let all us know about intentions and decide based on that.

A ranking for pirate is also nice idea...like assasins should be known in a big area aroud where they last operated.

That kind of things would make me not to avoid all pirates encounters.

I'm not sure how you would rank pirate though, seeing as they are outside the structure of the law. Ultimately, it's all about the pirate building a positive or negative reputation of themselves. Hard to do in such a huge play-area, but doable.

I myself am a recent addition to the pirate profession. I gave it my first go at a recent CG, and actually ended up building a solid reputation for myself amongst the traders doing the CG. (Thread I made here: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=242299). I even had a few traders that I saw often offering me cargo, and a local Bounty Hunter offering to help protect me when a griefer wing showed up. It was all a result of how I conducted myself. I didn't kill traders, I asked for reasonable amounts of cargo, I tried not to pirate a single player more than once a day, and all cargo I took was turned into the CG. By the end of it, myself and my "victims" had a better experience for it, and my friends list had grown.

However, I then followed the pack the next CG and it was a completely different story. A few griefers under the guise of pirates were killing traders at random. As a result, Open very quickly became quite empty, and the few traders that remained often logged as soon as they were interdicted. And who could blame them?

Piracy needs some live and attention for sure, but I'm not sure that we will ever find a way to midigate the negative impact that psychos have on piracys reputation. Unless there were some gimmicky way to distinguish between a pirate and a psycho it will be impossible, and I'm not sure a system like that could nearly fit into the Elite universe.

 

[Daffan]

The 15 second standard exit is a joke. It should be 60 seconds at least.

Nobody should argue against it. You log out instantly when not in combat or in a station. This only affects people trying to cheese combat.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

The 15 second standard exit is a joke. It should be 60 seconds at least.

Nobody should argue against it. You log out instantly when not in combat or in a station. This only affects people trying to cheese combat.

15 seconds works because its about the same time as someone needs to high wake out. If you can't kill the target who is waiting for the exit timer in 15 seconds, you're not going to get them high waking out either.

 

[Nim Rodel]

The 15 second standard exit is a joke. It should be 60 seconds at least.

Nobody should argue against it. You log out instantly when not in combat or in a station. This only affects people trying to cheese combat.

+1

I understand that people have Real Life emergencies that would conflict with a bump in the combat-log timer, but my personal experience with it has entirely been people using it to avoid the rebuy-screen because they bit off more than they could chew.

That isn't good game design

Nim

 

[_Fissure]

15 seconds works because its about the same time as someone needs to high wake out. If you can't kill the target who is waiting for the exit timer in 15 seconds, you're not going to get them high waking out either.

At the same time, when I pirate I'm trying NOT to kill my target. That 15s is if I go in guns blazing; no coms, no attempt at a deal, nothing. It also assumes that the other pilot doesn't log during the interdiction, which also happens. I personnaly will let a trader log before I open up for no reason, but I understand why others have sensitive trigger fingers.

 

[bladebss]

I dont know what the solution is to the timer issue but I agree its a problem..

I can pull a t7 out, full guns blazing second I hit the ''dirt'' shilds stripped in seconds and then 2 A limpets... cargo theft in progress....... .... and then they jump! Some times I get to the money shot just in time but usualy they wake out before the limpets have done there thing. No time for a chat or hesitation. Not eaven some tea and cake ots just so uncivil

 

[_Fissure]

I dont know what the solution is to the timer issue but I agree its a problem..

I can pull a t7 out, full guns blazing second I hit the ''dirt'' shilds stripped in seconds and then 2 A limpets... cargo theft in progress....... .... and then they jump! Some times I get to the money shot just in time but usualy they wake out before the limpets have done there thing. No time for a chat or hesitation. Not eaven some tea and cake ots just so uncivil

I always try to negotiate, and avoid firing my weapons at all costs. You'll be pleasantly surprised at how many traders are willing to play along when you don't start shooting the second you drop into normal space.