Robigo and the Keelback

[GraXXoR]

I really don't understand why it can't carry more. If they increased the carry capacity it would not only fit its price range but also its description.

They made three "heavy variants" of three ships and everyone seems to think that the originals were better. It's as if FDEV consider the current balance as perfect so don't want to upset the apple cart with new ships. However, if I'm not mistaken, they promised about 30 ships and so just bodged them together to fulfill their promise. After all they probably never promised 30 useful ships...

Still, there are some edge case uses for the variants.

VIV loaded with a couple of small dumb fires in its small slots and a hangar makes a landing craft and ground assault ship par excellence. It's small and has decent mobility. But more than anything, it is as hard as nails when tanked up with extra hull reinforcements.

The Cobra IV is of far more questionable merit. It is very slightly tougher than the mk3 and has one extra hard point. But since the PD is the same as the MKIII it's very difficult to make use of it. Instead, it would be there to offer slight load out variety. Its lack of agility makes it is a poor fighter but most people bemoan its lack of speed.

The keelback is a lost cause. Double the cost of the T6. 50m/slower. 1/3 less manoeuvrable, and loses 1/3 of the cargo capacity and 20% of its jump range. In return, what does it get? About 20% extra armour and shields and which basically improve its lifespan in a fight if the pilot stops the ship to actually fight, from about 10s to 12s. And 2 medium hardpoints which give it the same firepower (albeit unable to aim) as a 140kCr Viper. its only redeeming factor therefore is its fighter bay, but people seem to forget that as a class 5 slot (apparently) the keelback will loose a further 32T of cargo. Meaning, with a fighter bay and C5 shield and Nothing Else, it can carry just 24T of cargo. Hardly a defended cargo carrier it's made out to be.

Heck, a T6 with a class 5 shield has a far higher survivability rating than a keelback and still carries more cargo faster, further, cheaper.

 

[Crusina Luachra]

Off topic GraXXor but I am getting a distinctly Culture sounding vibe from your Corvette's ship name. Am I incorrect?

 

[capt_sparks]

I've done a lot of long range smuggling missions, with profits as high as 200m Cr for a single run and profit rates as high as 50m Cr/hr.

That's because there are exploits to take advantage of, giving 0% chance of getting scanned.

There are two approaches depending on the ship's speed. If your ship can boost >390m/s, you do something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3pl8TFSHbE

On that video, I earned 150m, but that's roughly on the lower end of what I usually earn while doing the Robigo run on Asp Explorer.

If you're using a slower ship, do something like what I did with my Imperial Cutter here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ex7LPI-bErQ

The idea is to shoot the scanner, then jump away. But for both cases, you simply log out when someone scans you on station. Recently, I've gotten an idea that might just break my past profit rate records. A profit rate as high as 60-70m Cr/h. I still have to formulate how it can be done.

I agree that FD needs to fix these exploits. I make these exposed to everyone as possible so that the developers will become aware of how unbalanced it is and hopefully make a priority of fixing it.

 

[[DOOK] Droogie]

About time.
Robigo seriously unbalances the game.

In what way? It doesn't pay much better per hour than normal trading. You not liking it does not = unbalanced.

 

[Ian Skippy]

In what way? It doesn't pay much better per hour than normal trading. You not liking it does not = unbalanced.

Sure, earning 10 million per hour is easy with normal trading...

 

[GraXXoR]

Off topic GraXXor but I am getting a distinctly Culture sounding vibe from your Corvette's ship name. Am I incorrect?

You are, in fact, entirely correct. Iain M Banks was a master of some of the highest fantasy yet somehow entirely believeable Science Fiction with a predeliction for the gritty and hard-hitting. However he never forgot his humour nor did he ever take himself entirely seriously. Ah... sorely missed.

My Sidewinder is called "Allusions of Grandeur."

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Sure, earning 10 million per hour is easy with normal trading...

This is what happens to people when they reach the top. They forget where they come from and assume that they are "the norm" and everyone below them is simply not trying hard enough... ;-)
Moreover, you are out by almost an entire (well, half a) magnitude. Some people can earn 40~50m per hour if they use a combination of Asp and "X in the top right corner."

 

[GraXXoR]

I've done a lot of long range smuggling missions, with profits as high as 200m Cr for a single run and profit rates as high as 50m Cr/hr.

That's because there are exploits to take advantage of, giving 0% chance of getting scanned.

There are two approaches depending on the ship's speed. If your ship can boost >390m/s, you do something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3pl8TFSHbE

On that video, I earned 150m, but that's roughly on the lower end of what I usually earn while doing the Robigo run on Asp Explorer.

If you're using a slower ship, do something like what I did with my Imperial Cutter here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ex7LPI-bErQ

The idea is to shoot the scanner, then jump away. But for both cases, you simply log out when someone scans you on station. Recently, I've gotten an idea that might just break my past profit rate records. A profit rate as high as 60-70m Cr/h. I still have to formulate how it can be done.

I agree that FD needs to fix these exploits. I make these exposed to everyone as possible so that the developers will become aware of how unbalanced it is and hopefully make a priority of fixing it.

This really does need to be fixed. It's been known for half a year. Sure it's hardcore game play, so some people think that it should be rewarded appropriately. But it is in no way 10x harder than for example the Chi Lin combat zone during the Emperor's Dawn debacle, where 3m per hour would leave you knackered.

All you have to do is go to Shinrarta Dezhra in Mobius and chat to the "Elites" there in their mostly harmless rated Asps who have been playing less than a month. Most of them say "Robigo, of course." and boast about making a couple of hundred million a day in their last few days of grinding.

I ran it a few times, realised how broken it was and started delivering Unknown Artifacts there... Didn't manage to put the station off line, though, and once had to reboot my ship due to module malfunction.

 

[capt_sparks]

One more thing, I did a successful Robigo run on a Sidewinder. I only chose missions available for Peddler ranks and lower. I earned 20m Cr, all in 1 hr. Now, even just earning 10m Cr here for a completely new account, one can do an accelerated bootstrapping from Sidewinder to Asp Explorer to Anaconda within 7-8 hours.

 

[Snarfbuckle]

it suffered a similar fate like the Cobra Mk.4 or the Viper Mk.4...

In it's defense, the Cobra MKIV is a small well equipped explorer with plenty of module space to do the job. It's one of the cheapest explorers that can fit basically EVERYTHING to explore a system from top to bottom.

 

[Altair8800]

I ran it a few times, realised how broken it was and started delivering Unknown Artifacts there... Didn't manage to put the station off line, though, and once had to reboot my ship due to module malfunction.

You should have seen how really broken it was before all the fixes were applied.

Interesting, Galnet News says:

Meanwhile, the following starports are still experiencing technical issues:
Alexander Freeport, HIP 18843
Bloch Vision, Loperada
Love Ring, Evejitaka
Robigo Mines, Robigo

 

[Ian Skippy]

In it's defense, the Cobra MKIV is a small well equipped explorer with plenty of module space to do the job. It's one of the cheapest explorers that can fit basically EVERYTHING to explore a system from top to bottom.

Its also a pretty good miner, base assault ship (put dumbfires in the 5th hardpoint) and entry-level trader. Its basically a cheap but ultra-versatile multirole ship, kinda like an Adder+.

 

[Crusina Luachra]

You are, in fact, entirely correct. Iain M Banks was a master of some of the highest fantasy yet somehow entirely believeable Science Fiction with a predeliction for the gritty and hard-hitting. However he never forgot his humour nor did he ever take himself entirely seriously. Ah... sorely missed.

My Sidewinder is called "Allusions of Grandeur."

I knew it!

And yes. I miss him as well. His books dealing with ascension is what helped me understand a lot of things, especially ME3's ending.

 

[PiLhEaD]

...The keelback is a lost cause. Double the cost of the T6. 50m/slower. 1/3 less manoeuvrable, and loses 1/3 of the cargo capacity and 20% of its jump range. In return, what does it get? About 20% extra armour and shields and which basically improve its lifespan in a fight if the pilot stops the ship to actually fight, from about 10s to 12s. And 2 medium hardpoints which give it the same firepower (albeit unable to aim) as a 140kCr Viper. its only redeeming factor therefore is its fighter bay, but people seem to forget that as a class 5 slot (apparently) the keelback will loose a further 32T of cargo. Meaning, with a fighter bay and C5 shield and Nothing Else, it can carry just 24T of cargo. Hardly a defended cargo carrier it's made out to be...

Agreed. The Keelback sounded such an exciting proposition, a Q-ship and a blockade buster.

I didn't realise that the fighter bay occupies a class-5 slot.

Much like the SRV taking a slot (rather than the original proposal of just consuming cargo space, which is more game friendly), often it seems to me that things are designed along the lines of 'how can we make this instantly irrelevant'. Sorry, I don't wish to groan on as there is so much that is excellent, but sometimes they seem horribly intent on snatching defeat from the jaws of 'enjoyable-gameplay-victory'.

[/moany mcmoanhead]:S

 

[Altair8800]

I didn't realise that the fighter bay occupies a class-5 slot.

Does it? If so you could strap it into any ship with a class-5 slot, even if it cannot eject a fighter. Makes no sense, my guess is that it will be a special slot that some ships have and others not.

Much like the SRV taking a slot (rather than the original proposal of just consuming cargo space, which is more game friendly), often it seems to me that things are designed along the lines of 'how can we make this instantly irrelevant'. Sorry, I don't wish to groan on as there is so much that is excellent, but sometimes they seem horribly intent on snatching defeat from the jaws of 'enjoyable-gameplay-victory'.
[/moany mcmoanhead]:S

Hm, but you put the SRV bay into a slot where otherwise you would have a cargo rack, so sorta is cargo. Implementation makes sense too, because any ship has the ability to carry SRVs.

 

[Siobhan]

You know there's something wrong somewhere when I agree with Siobhan.

Don't let it get to you. I do occasionally talk sense. It might be rare, but it does happen.

 

[[DOOK] Droogie]

Sure, earning 10 million per hour is easy with normal trading...

6 million per hour isn't hard with normal trading. However, 10 million per hour isn't normal with Robigo. By the time you stack the missions, get out of the station, get to your destination and deal with all of the interdictions along the way, it isn't really 10 million per hour. There's a long thread on how much Robigo is actually worth.

It's also the only money making method where you get absolutely nothing on one scan. It should pay more.

 

[d8veh]

6 million per hour isn't hard with normal trading. However, 10 million per hour isn't normal with Robigo. By the time you stack the missions, get out of the station, get to your destination and deal with all of the interdictions along the way, it isn't really 10 million per hour. There's a long thread on how much Robigo is actually worth.

It's also the only money making method where you get absolutely nothing on one scan. It should pay more.

That's true. Many people talk about 40 million an hour, but they don't include all the time. I've found that the earnings rate depends a lot on your rank, experience and technique. When I started, I was averaging about 8 million an hour, but by the time I got to Tycoon and had reasonable experience, it rose to about 12 million an hour. Now, with Elite status and lots of experience, I'm averaging about 20 - 25 million per hour. These rates are only achievable if you log to stack missions. I would say that 30 million an hour is about as high as you can go playing like that, though there's other exploits, which will get you a bit more.

 

[Altair8800]

6 million per hour isn't hard with normal trading. However, 10 million per hour isn't normal with Robigo. By the time you stack the missions, get out of the station, get to your destination and deal with all of the interdictions along the way, it isn't really 10 million per hour. There's a long thread on how much Robigo is actually worth.

It's also the only money making method where you get absolutely nothing on one scan. It should pay more.

Actually a 30 million/hour Robigo run is very relaxing. With a 64tons ASP you take 5 mission a 6 million (requires Elite rank). To get the missions you switch BB maybe 4-6 times, needs 5 minutes. Delivering that is relaxing because the 6 missions won't cause too many interdictions, and can be done in a hour if nothing goes very wrong and no time is wasted messing with NPCs/commanders.

By picking more missions one can make it much more interesting of course, and that will get one under 10 million/hour.

 

[Mysturji]

In my never-ending quest to purchase, equip and keep (equipped) every ship in the game, I finally got a Keelback and after deciding on a long range transporter with bite I spent 15,000,000 (including ship) credits and kitted it out as like this.

In preparation for using my shiny new ship, I decided that I'd load up with a full 68 tonnes of cargo (nothing much, it only worked out as 600 Cr/Ton by the time I got to Robigo). Knowing this would get me at least a couple of interdictions on the long, 600Ly journey.

I submitted to an Adder and a Cobra Mk. III and, although this thing flies like a brick weighed down with more bricks, it does at least pack a bit of a punch and with liberal use of FA off, the Adder was toast quite quickly. The Cobra took longer but was no problem.

So, I arrived at Robigo fairly confident and loaded up on missions until my cargo was full...probably about 20,000,000 all in, and I even took some data courier missions.

Despite my inexperience in smuggling, I do read and I am fully aware that I'm going to get a multitude of interdiction attempts and offers to 'follow my wake'.

Things are going pretty well. I've not been interdicted by anything I want to fight (couple of Vultures and an Anaconda) but I've submitted and run away without issue, even in this lumbering beast with a boost speed of what seems like backwards (I think it's about 320). I had the most problem with a Viper Mk. III which managed to remove a ring or two of shield, but still no damage.

Then I get an interdiction attempt by system security...the ones you don't want scanning you. I fight the interdiction and realise I'm in one of those situations where although I'm keeping in the blue pretty well, I'm still going to lose, so I submit.

There are at least 6 ships waiting for me as I mash boost harder than the toughest of spuds. Crapcrapcrapcrap!

It must have happened, but I didn't even see a message saying I was being scanned.

Mission fail Mission Fail Mission Fail Mission Fail Mission Fail Mission Fail Mission Fail.

At least I still made about 2,500,000 from the courier missions and about 500,000 from the slaves I'd failed to deliver.

So, had I been in a faster ship, say a Cobra Mk. III, my chances of eluding the scan would have been much greater, therefore, with no hesitation, I can fairly state that the Keelback sucks the hairiest of hairy parts when it comes to smuggling.

Next, I'm going to try it on one of the rares routes. I think this ship will be good for that, but it costs so much that you're usually past the kind of profit you get from rares by the time you can afford to own it...still, let's give it a go.

Edit: Blimey...long...

TL;DR - Keelback is poo for Robigo runs

I use a Keelback for mining.
The lack of cargo space is the only drawback for this role, but it beats a T7 because it can run more than 1 small mining laser without overheating, and still defend itself on the journey back.

 

[Mysturji]

If you look at the description and their setups you would notice they are not intended to replace the old ones in terms of speed or anything. They were meant to be variants of the MkIII's.

Therefore if you want to dislike the ships because of how they handle or whatever. That's fine.

If you want to dislike them simply because they aren't faster Cobra/vipers with more firepower then you are comparing them to a role that they never were intended to fill, which makes no sense.

One would generally expect a ship (/car/plane/tractor/submarine/gun/bomb/computer/phone/whatever) with the same name as a previous model with a "mk +1" tag to be a "+1" version of the same thing.
I like the Viper Mk IV. It's a little beefier, and can handle itself in a fight. A little slower, but it can still manoeuvre, and there's some extra space for a cargo rack or SRV. It's an improvement, with trade-offs.
The Cobra Mk IV is a completely different beast from the Mk III. It's like the guys at Porsche said "How we can improve the 911? ... I know! Let's make it like a Land Rover, but with a Porsche badge, and name it after a condiment."