I'm rich- plz nerf everything!

We seem to be getting away from the PvP/PvE antagonism on the board, which is progress. Some of the most notorious player gangs say they're moving on, while some of the best known PvP groups are embracing the BGS and even recruiting PvE players. I think this is a good thing both for our collective in game experience and for the long term viability of the game. Griefers are always going to be present in on line gaming, but one of their main shields- the pretence that they're 'just interested in PvP'- has been lost. The groups who have proven themselves to be most competent in player on player combat and most willing to embrace other game activities to support their PvP focus are thriving. At the same time player gangs insisting that the game is somehow deficient because it doesn't force every player weaker than themselves to offer themselves as a sacrifice to their 'Eve in cockpits' fantasy are getting bored, restless and considering playing something else. While losing players is never a good thing, perhaps losing a small number of the most vocal exponents of activities that many consider griefing is better than losing large numbers of players to the annoyance, frustration and aggravation that their activities invoke.

Naturally, we're going to have to find something else to moan about! :D

The hot topic at the moment seems to be a feeling that it's far too easy to accrue vast amounts of cash and assets. Whether it's the ongoing hate for long range smuggling, or the bizarre jealousy inexperienced pilots in end game ships are subject too, it's clear that some of us are pretty hacked off about the ease with which some players can buy and maintain the biggest, most expensive models.

It's rather revealing that the people complaining the loudest are those who also have large, expensive, end game ships... but that's a ok because they earned theirs, unlike the Johnny come latelys! :p

Long range smuggling will probably get nerfed next patch. I'll be sorry to see that happen, but I don't think it'll bother most of the player base much. Low to mid level/experienced Commanders don't have the trade rank or a suitable ship to properly capitalise on the game mechanism yet, while high level/experienced Commanders will just move on to whatever else is most profitable. I confidently predict that whatever that mechanism proves to be will attract the ire of the posters complaining about Robigo now.

I know why that is, but I can't claim to understand their reasoning.

There will always be a quickest and best way to grind up to and maintain an end game ship. Some new players will do exactly that as will many experienced Commanders with a need for credits- anyone seriously considering PvP being a case in point. This will upset a vocal minority who will demand that changes have to be made.

The big question is why? I don't often fly in warships, so if I meet a Commander in a Murderconda my only real hope is that they're not going to be experienced enough to overcome whatever advantage my current ship has. It's something of a relief to find the big, scary battleship is being piloted by a novice. I don't have any problem with more experienced, PvP focused players swimming in cash, either. My issue is keeping my Commander alive, not where they got their Rail-de-Lance or it's custom weapons! Either player having a big shiny doesn't bother me in the slightest- quite the reverse, I sincerely hope they're enjoying themselves as much as I am in my go fast.

I suspect that the reason so many of us have our panties in a twist is that the desire to get that big shiny toy overcame the desire to enjoy the process of getting it. Grinding away became such a habit that it's left huge piles of cash lying around with nothing to spend it on, leaving a vague feeling that something's missing.
Naturally, that's FDs fault, since they came up with the grind in the first place, right? ;) So they should do something to alleviate the boredom and frustration. Que lots of suggestions about strangling the money supply, timing out rebuys, grinding modules and so forth.

Guys, just say no. Look at your fellow players, ask yourself why they seem very happy with the game as is and seem genuinely excited by new developments. Don't assume they're ignorant of the deep understanding of the game that you- and only you- have developed. Before you dismiss them as fanbois (or gurlz) just take note of what they're so delighted about. Consider the possibility that they, not you, might have 'got' what this game is all about. Try playing their way for a while?

If not, there's always iron man.... :cool:
 
I can completely agree with you that people with zero motivation left shouldn't attempt to change the path for those that follow, its very easy to nerf everything once you have unlimited cash but it really isn't any fun!

But some of us also wanted to nerf everything when we were poor too ;) don't forget us! its valid too :p I just think that any multi-player game requires good pacing and a strong control on the economy to give the best experience to the players, this has always been the platform i argue for nerfs from. Though that boat sailed long ago so I don't anymore, all it would do is hurt new players for no benefit they'd have to wipe everyone for it to actually matter.

That being said it is easy for people to get stroppy about earning speeds when one clearly stands out and looks like it isn't legitimate, currently as you mention its long range smuggling but would anybody actually complain if the other professions were comparable? ... Probably i mean they always complain, but they'd have less of a platform than they currently have ;)

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In other words: If you insist on playing the game in an un-fun way don't be surprised when you look around and realize you're not having any fun.

See this is the crux though, I agree with you completely but its also a big part of game design to not make your player base choose between fun and progress, and the bigger you make the disparity the more likely that somebody will choose the fast path instead of the fun one, its a cost benefit analysis right? Everyone has different settings but we all do one.

edit: The only thing that irritates me about the threads the OP is talking about in general is if FD do nerf shadow deliveries then why on earth do they take so long? Its always worse when they take so long but everytime theres been some route to making quick $$$ its taken them ages to change it (except for 8000$ slaves)
 
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I think part of the issue is that in this iteration of the game farming is a viable way to play. For example, it's more efficient to sit at a compromised nav beacon to up your combat rank than to do stuff and up your rank along the way, just as it is more efficient to farm neutron stars than it is to explore to up your exploration rank.

In the older version of the game (FE2) that brought me to this one, it took just 6,000 kills (of any ranked ship) to become Elite. It still took a long time, but since there was no real way to 'farm' it, you did other stuff and destroyed other ships as part of the progress.

Perhaps games today need a way to progress that is focused, I don't know, and it's hard to resist farming if the option is there.
 
See this is the crux though, I agree with you completely but its also a big part of game design to not make your player base choose between fun and progress, and the bigger you make the disparity the more likely that somebody will choose the fast path instead of the fun one, its a cost benefit analysis right? Everyone has different settings but we all do one.

The one thing humans are really good at via crowd sourcing is finding the path of least resistance. It's like ants to a jelly donut. It's not possible to make a game that has multiple paths of different weights and not have the player base find the optimal path. If you don't have different weights then it's just boring for everyone, if you have different weighted paths it's at least interesting to those that don't feel inclined to find the shortest one.

That's the best you can hope for, more weights. Those that effectively keep pushing the red button to mainline heroin can't be solved for.
 
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I think part of the issue is that in this iteration of the game farming is a viable way to play. For example, it's more efficient to sit at a compromised nav beacon to up your combat rank than to do stuff and up your rank along the way, just as it is more efficient to farm neutron stars than it is to explore to up your exploration rank.

In the older version of the game (FE2) that brought me to this one, it took just 6,000 kills (of any ranked ship) to become Elite. It still took a long time, but since there was no real way to 'farm' it, you did other stuff and destroyed other ships as part of the progress.

Perhaps games today need a way to progress that is focused, I don't know, and it's hard to resist farming if the option is there.

But it is the players choice isn't it. Many people do choose to let the combat rating come to them over time and many explorers do choose not sit in a Neutron field for hours at a time (personally I actively avoid Neutron stars). It seems some people want to get to the end of the game without realising that there is no end. The game is actually a game where playing it is the reward, not ending it.

I guess it's nothing new as people have always been different but maybe this game immediately appeals to so many different types of game players some of whom are going to be disappointed that in the long run, this game is designed for people that enjoy what it is, not what it might be.
 
The new missions will reward crafting mats rather than credits, so those with gajillions will still need to do missions in order to get the mats required for engineers
 
But it is the players choice isn't it. Many people do choose to let the combat rating come to them over time and many explorers do choose not sit in a Neutron field for hours at a time (personally I actively avoid Neutron stars). It seems some people want to get to the end of the game without realising that there is no end. The game is actually a game where playing it is the reward, not ending it.

I guess it's nothing new as people have always been different but maybe this game immediately appeals to so many different types of game players some of whom are going to be disappointed that in the long run, this game is designed for people that enjoy what it is, not what it might be.

Yes, agreed, it is the players' choice. :) And I imagine that most of the players not farming have a better time of it than those who farm and then wonder what to do when they achieve what they set out to do.
 
But it is the players choice isn't it. Many people do choose to let the combat rating come to them over time and many explorers do choose not sit in a Neutron field for hours at a time (personally I actively avoid Neutron stars). It seems some people want to get to the end of the game without realising that there is no end. The game is actually a game where playing it is the reward, not ending it.

I guess it's nothing new as people have always been different but maybe this game immediately appeals to so many different types of game players some of whom are going to be disappointed that in the long run, this game is designed for people that enjoy what it is, not what it might be.

I think your right, but thats why people moan about it I think, wouldn't the game just be better if you were rewarded similarly for playing how you wanted vs playing efficiently? What do you lose? I don't think anybody is suggesting you should be ludicriously rewarded for doing nothing, or doing something badly but if your carefully monitoring each system to pass through vs only scanning neutron stars they could at least be comparable in terms of earnings.

I don't entirely know why anything other than earthlikes / waterworlds pays more anyway :p and if it was only them at least you couldn't farm them like some bizarre cosmic cabbage.
 
fine if you have so much time to grind, but pain in the      if you work full time shifts for a living

Here here Commander, only just posted in a thread about making us wait to fly our ships after death (yeah)

Having a handful of hours a week or less is a situation I imagine a lot of players are in, especially the crowd I know who are playing have limited time.

Inara tells me I should be able to A rate my Anaconda by summer next year maybe. That is my personal situation but just put that to perspective of the people that have time to smash the maximum credit grind. People seem to have time to make twenty times what I can get in a week and more.

Though this is one of the things that makes you realise the game has something for all types of player, The super dedicated can earn PP bank and modules. The smuggler stacker can risk it all for the megabucks.

Me, I just do what I feel like and credits just happen to be a part of that.

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Yes, agreed, it is the players' choice. :) And I imagine that most of the players not farming have a better time of it than those who farm and then wonder what to do when they achieve what they set out to do.

Also this is how I see myself versus a lot of people's posts I've seen here
 
We seem to be getting away from the PvP/PvE antagonism on the board, which is progress. Some of the most notorious player gangs say they're moving on, while some of the best known PvP groups are embracing the BGS and even recruiting PvE players. I think this is a good thing both for our collective in game experience and for the long term viability of the game. Griefers are always going to be present in on line gaming, but one of their main shields- the pretence that they're 'just interested in PvP'- has been lost. The groups who have proven themselves to be most competent in player on player combat and most willing to embrace other game activities to support their PvP focus are thriving. At the same time player gangs insisting that the game is somehow deficient because it doesn't force every player weaker than themselves to offer themselves as a sacrifice to their 'Eve in cockpits' fantasy are getting bored, restless and considering playing something else. While losing players is never a good thing, perhaps losing a small number of the most vocal exponents of activities that many consider griefing is better than losing large numbers of players to the annoyance, frustration and aggravation that their activities invoke.

Naturally, we're going to have to find something else to moan about! :D

The hot topic at the moment seems to be a feeling that it's far too easy to accrue vast amounts of cash and assets. Whether it's the ongoing hate for long range smuggling, or the bizarre jealousy inexperienced pilots in end game ships are subject too, it's clear that some of us are pretty hacked off about the ease with which some players can buy and maintain the biggest, most expensive models.

It's rather revealing that the people complaining the loudest are those who also have large, expensive, end game ships... but that's a ok because they earned theirs, unlike the Johnny come latelys! :p

Long range smuggling will probably get nerfed next patch. I'll be sorry to see that happen, but I don't think it'll bother most of the player base much. Low to mid level/experienced Commanders don't have the trade rank or a suitable ship to properly capitalise on the game mechanism yet, while high level/experienced Commanders will just move on to whatever else is most profitable. I confidently predict that whatever that mechanism proves to be will attract the ire of the posters complaining about Robigo now.

I know why that is, but I can't claim to understand their reasoning.

There will always be a quickest and best way to grind up to and maintain an end game ship. Some new players will do exactly that as will many experienced Commanders with a need for credits- anyone seriously considering PvP being a case in point. This will upset a vocal minority who will demand that changes have to be made.

The big question is why? I don't often fly in warships, so if I meet a Commander in a Murderconda my only real hope is that they're not going to be experienced enough to overcome whatever advantage my current ship has. It's something of a relief to find the big, scary battleship is being piloted by a novice. I don't have any problem with more experienced, PvP focused players swimming in cash, either. My issue is keeping my Commander alive, not where they got their Rail-de-Lance or it's custom weapons! Either player having a big shiny doesn't bother me in the slightest- quite the reverse, I sincerely hope they're enjoying themselves as much as I am in my go fast.

I suspect that the reason so many of us have our panties in a twist is that the desire to get that big shiny toy overcame the desire to enjoy the process of getting it. Grinding away became such a habit that it's left huge piles of cash lying around with nothing to spend it on, leaving a vague feeling that something's missing.
Naturally, that's FDs fault, since they came up with the grind in the first place, right? ;) So they should do something to alleviate the boredom and frustration. Que lots of suggestions about strangling the money supply, timing out rebuys, grinding modules and so forth.

Guys, just say no. Look at your fellow players, ask yourself why they seem very happy with the game as is and seem genuinely excited by new developments. Don't assume they're ignorant of the deep understanding of the game that you- and only you- have developed. Before you dismiss them as fanbois (or gurlz) just take note of what they're so delighted about. Consider the possibility that they, not you, might have 'got' what this game is all about. Try playing their way for a while?

If not, there's always iron man.... :cool:

Good post.

There is though a number of players who have amassed a large wealth, happy with the game, but have nothing to do with it and that also needs to be looked at by FD. Ironman would certainly help .. not everyone is disciplined enough to do it manually so a game forced option would help :) Better "gold sinks" would also help - suggested some ideas a long time ago, so paraphrasing: Research - large amounts of cash for "something" that's limited in time before unveiled to everyone. (Maybe new ships / components). Fleet management (moving them around) for a fee was also touted by FD - price based on distance and security of system you're based in. Etc.

2.1 will bring some new things for people to do which may take the focus off things for a while.
 
Interesting points and interesting psychology at the root.
Something to consider is the problem that FD have in going the 10 year updates route - they obviously haven't implemented all their ideas yet and just as the user base get used to the current architecture they may well need to change something which has been a placeholder or fudged mechanic which could cause a lot of discontent amongst the user-base.
One example could be exploring, currently the biggest difficulty is overcoming space madness, and I don't think they expected explorers to reach Sag A* in a day when we went live in Gamma. I'm sure they've got plans (some coming shortly!) to make this more of an endeavour - and we shall just have to except this I think, although some future changes could really revolutionise the game. I hope they have the balls to continue their vision :) good luck FD!
 
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:D Guys, if you chose a grind activity- farming a compromised beacon, say- you chose that path! If you have fun doing it then great, we have a winner. If you don't, then try considering why you're doing it? Being Elite is still a badge of honour, much respected and highly desirable. But it's not worth ruining your game experience to get it. Likewise with the big shinys- who doesn't want a Cutter or 'Vette in their hanger?- they'll come to you eventually anyway, grinding out rank and credits when you could be doing something fun doesn't make any sense to me. That's especially true when the fun things still generate credit, rank and influence. Not as much as grind activities, but they come in a far more immersive and believable form.

From a personal point of view, it was a significant moment for me to finally have the Federal rank and credits available to buy a Federal Assault Ship. I even gave her a name- Cearban, if you speak Gaelic you'll know why! ;)

At the same time I've read novice players being advised to grind out some Fed rank to get one because they're cheap :O and a good base for a PvP build.

If the novice gets their FAS, fully kitted out, in a few days, compared to my many months, does it affect my game experience?

Not really. If we meet, they'll have to be a real quick study to beat me. More likely they're off doing (hopefully enjoyable) things with their new friends, learning the ropes in a great ship. Good for them! I think they're missing out on a whole fleet of great ships and a vast number of terrific experiences figuring out what each of them is capable of, but they can always go back to the smaller boats if they want to. The main thing is that they enjoy their new ship, new friends and this great game we all play. It'd be nice if they recommend it to their other mates, too- the more the merrier! (Plus more development cash for FD to keep on improving and evolving our game! :cool:)

Lol- multiple ninja'd! [haha]
 
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Everything in the game is a grind. That's the whole point of it, isn't it? grinding is fun. Getting lots of money is fun even if you have every ship. I already have 7 billion after 6 months. I'm not going to stop until I'm the richest player in the game.
 
Great OP. My feeling is that the complaining about the long range smuggling being over payed is a joke--even an experienced pilot who knows 100% of the ropes who is starting over with a new profile is still going to take 100+ hours of single mindedly farming Shadow Missions to A rate an Anaconda, and much much MUCH more that that to get into a Corvette. The SM's provide an interesting way for people to get ahead compared to some other careers, true, but still very labor intensive.

People should just focus on how they play their own game and let others play it their own way.
 
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