I'm rich- plz nerf everything!

Great OP. My feeling is that the complaining about the long range smuggling being over payed is a joke--even an experienced pilot who knows 100% of the ropes who is starting over with a new profile is still going to take 100+ hours of single mindedly farming Shadow Missions to A rate an Anaconda, and much much MUCH more that that to get into a Corvette. The SM's provide an interesting way for people to get ahead compared to some other careers, true, but still very labor intensive.

People should just focus on how they play their own game and let others play it their own way.

Some people (myself included) are hacked off about the fact that long-range smuggling is by far the least ship dependent mission type when it comes to making buckets of money. Your proft-earning is essentially maxed-out by the time you get into a stripped-down Asp, and at that point is much higher than an Elite-ranked combat pilot in the most expensive ships in the game. Thus there is a trend going where pilots of other, less lucrative professions feel compelled to do shadow deliveries because they either A) really want to experience large ships, B) want to fast-track to high-end ships to make their preferred mode of play more profitable, or C) they think a bigger ship will make up for their deficiencies as a pilot, primarily in combat.

That said it's not really an issue with smuggling, but an issue with the bounty board and the activity reward structure in general. The vast majority of missions are deeply unrewarding to the point of parody, even at the highest reward tier (elite missions). Thus the best way to make money is to simply farm pirates or A-B trade routes, with the only bulletin board activity even remotely worth doing being the aforementioned shadow deliveries. This is a problem that needs to be addressed, but by raising rewards and offering better quality missions to combat pilots and traders that are worth doing without stacking a thousand of them beforehand by tediously switching modes for two hours straight.
 
Some people (myself included) are hacked off about the fact that long-range smuggling is by far the least ship dependent mission type when it comes to making buckets of money. Your proft-earning is essentially maxed-out by the time you get into a stripped-down Asp, and at that point is much higher than an Elite-ranked combat pilot in the most expensive ships in the game. Thus there is a trend going where pilots of other, less lucrative professions feel compelled to do shadow deliveries because they either A) really want to experience large ships, B) want to fast-track to high-end ships to make their preferred mode of play more profitable, or C) they think a bigger ship will make up for their deficiencies as a pilot, primarily in combat.

That said it's not really an issue with smuggling, but an issue with the bounty board and the activity reward structure in general. The vast majority of missions are deeply unrewarding to the point of parody, even at the highest reward tier (elite missions). Thus the best way to make money is to simply farm pirates or A-B trade routes, with the only bulletin board activity even remotely worth doing being the aforementioned shadow deliveries. This is a problem that needs to be addressed, but by raising rewards and offering better quality missions to combat pilots and traders that are worth doing without stacking a thousand of them beforehand by tediously switching modes for two hours straight.

I respect and understand the basis for your points, CMDR, but I don't believe that they constitute a valid reason to nerf smuggling. Rather, I think its a good reason to make other career paths more profitable than they are as of present.

Early on in my Elite career I determined that missions were of little use to me--here's to hoping that Fdev does a good job "revamping" them, both to provide more compelling content as well as make them much more lucrative. I love the idea of partaking of the BGS in theory.
 
But on topic, I don't care about people earning money, I care about profession imbalance that kills off piracy.

... and rare trading ...

___

nice post, OP!

I'm running two accounts these days, my really rich one out exploring, and a second, base-game bubble-account, for pew-pew, and BGS-stuff, and community things. started that second account in autumn, and i think, without the new money flow from BHing and longrange smuggling i couldn't "afford" two accounts timewise - or i couldn't afford the fleet of small and medium ships which is usefull for BGS-stuff.

so, I'm not unhappy about the situation, and I'm totally not unhappy that many commanders can fly those ships they want to fly more fast, and loosing your ship isn't that much of a setback.

but, i dislike two things:

a) longrange smuggling at cr/h max needs exploitative ("not in the spirit of the game") bulletin board refresh.
b) bounty farming and longrange-smuggling-mission stacking are lonely occupations.

the best paying activities in ED at the very moment are very much disconnecting from the games world. endless streams of pirates at cnbs or in RES; endless supply of slaves needed to be smuggled hundreds of lightyears.

I'm all for that credit flow.

but i would like to see those credit flow in occupations, which either bring players together in hubs (rares; community goals) - or need some gameskill or winging up (convoys with some really really well paying cargo, complicated assassination, where you need to find and follow your target with a wing...).

anyway, I'm positive that 2.1 will change a lot.
 
I respect and understand the basis for your points, CMDR, but I don't believe that they constitute a valid reason to nerf smuggling. Rather, I think its a good reason to make other career paths more profitable than they are as of present.

Early on in my Elite career I determined that missions were of little use to me--here's to hoping that Fdev does a good job "revamping" them, both to provide more compelling content as well as make them much more lucrative. I love the idea of partaking of the BGS in theory.

I never advocated the nerfing of smuggling.
 
I largely find it funny. At the end of the day, i put a lot of effort into getting my paltry 200 million, and i feel like i've earned it. Those who achieved the same cash with a few hours of smuggling runs probably do not have that same feeling.

So, perhaps i've got something out of it they haven't. A feeling of achievement.

What i doubly find funny is people who after a few hours of play are already sitting in something like a DBS or more, because they read all the get rich quick guides, and then complain that earning money takes too long. I've seriously encountered one of these people. They even didn't want to wing with me because it would slow down their generation of cash.

Some people just seem to go out of their way to make the game a grind.
 
To the OP: i am one of the players who play this game as "Eve in cockpits" and i am no "griefer" thank you very much. Maybe your definition of griefing it's a little skewed.
 
Yes, agreed, it is the players' choice. :) And I imagine that most of the players not farming have a better time of it than those who farm and then wonder what to do when they achieve what they set out to do.
I think the problem is for the players who don't want to farm but do want to do stuff with a high credit barrier to entry. Lots of fun activities require a lot of free cash - for buckyball A*, the 7A fuel scoop costs almost as much as the Anaconda itself does; for competitive PvP, you're going to be paying a lot of rebuys on that FdL; playing SRV baseball is going to involve a lot of expensive mistakes.

If cash was easy to come by (say, every bulletin board had a "take this INRA package to the next system for 100 million credits and instant promotion to Duke-Admiral" mission) this wouldn't be a problem for them - but it then would be a serious problem for the "I like gradually earning my way up and I want my actions to have significant consequences" group.

People legitimately have very diverse requirements for how easy it should be to make money, and in a multiplayer game without "load previous save" it's always going to be a compromise which keeps no-one happy (and the boards full of various threads symptomatic of that - I view the endless PvPvPvE and Open/Group/Solo threads as basically a consequence of the same thing)
 
I think the problem is for the players who don't want to farm but do want to do stuff with a high credit barrier to entry. Lots of fun activities require a lot of free cash - for buckyball A*, the 7A fuel scoop costs almost as much as the Anaconda itself does; for competitive PvP, you're going to be paying a lot of rebuys on that FdL; playing SRV baseball is going to involve a lot of expensive mistakes.

If cash was easy to come by (say, every bulletin board had a "take this INRA package to the next system for 100 million credits and instant promotion to Duke-Admiral" mission) this wouldn't be a problem for them - but it then would be a serious problem for the "I like gradually earning my way up and I want my actions to have significant consequences" group.

People legitimately have very diverse requirements for how easy it should be to make money, and in a multiplayer game without "load previous save" it's always going to be a compromise which keeps no-one happy (and the boards full of various threads symptomatic of that - I view the endless PvPvPvE and Open/Group/Solo threads as basically a consequence of the same thing)

And those players when playing something like WoW would also be rushing to get to level 99 and max out their gear asap.

FD simply cannot try catering to such people. They will always want more and quicker.
 
And those players when playing something like WoW would also be rushing to get to level 99 and max out their gear asap.

FD simply cannot try catering to such people. They will always want more and quicker.

Impossible task to (successfully) cater to that sort of people, ayep.
 
If you build your game around earning credits, and the only thing you can do with credits its buy ships and modules.

Then the game is built around buying ships and modules, and if they suck, then its wasted effort and you feel robbed of your time.

And no, don't give me that "you are playing it wrong" I've done every single thing this game has to offer and its placeholder at best in most areas, so whatever you do is not gonna be fun anyway.
Shallow trading, shallow bunty hunting, shallow exploring, shallow wars, shallow missions. Nothing is built in this game in a way that makes sense, the only thing left is buying better ships, and when they can't even get that right, there is nothing left.

I guess we are supposed to delude ourselves into thinking that it is not shallow and just "imagine" this game has things it doesn't have. But hey, I have no problems now, since I left months ago and I'm playing games that actually reward my efforts and are fun at the same time.
 
As mentioned buy a second account and start fresh. But of course it will not be fresh as you have already the experience and knowledge of one year or more. As you can't nerf your experience, it is to some point useless. But there are definitely some ways. I saw lately - guess somebody from the 13th Legion - who was doing proper pirating in his Adder/Hauler against stronger ships like Cobras. This was absolutely amazing and fun to watch this. The game really offers so many things you can fill with your content, don't wait for Frontier - just be creative and try something out yourselves.

[video=youtube;hspEMv_cZZk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hspEMv_cZZk[/video]
 
And those players when playing something like WoW would also be rushing to get to level 99 and max out their gear asap.

FD simply cannot try catering to such people. They will always want more and quicker.

I always see arguments like this but I can't help but think that people who've never played an mmo make them, of course you rush to level cap in an mmo there are huge rewards for doing so, many of which you will only get one chance at. Plus the leveling content is extremely repetitive and extremely lengthy many people just go through it as fast as possible to save themselves the drudgery of actually doing it. It isn't a fine wine to be savoured, its stump juice, just get it down as quick as you can and don't look back ;)

Raiding is 80% of why you play an mmo if your in a guild, and people who aren't in a raiding guild tend to take their time anyway because they have no reason not to.

They always get cries for more and quicker because there hasn't been an MMO made yet that has sufficient content at the top at launch I think they are perfectly valid complaints, one of the recent WoW xpacs went 6 months + without any additional content, for a game with a money tap that is pretty gross IMO.

Does any of that equate to ED? I don't think so, people who rush to big ships are doing so because they hope the game is different when they get there I can't see any other reason why they'd do so, if there are cries for more content faster and quicker its not related to progression at the top end at all, and more to the fact the experience prior to the top wasn't enjoyable either (not my personal experience).

2.1 may well shake that up, but really I think they need a big chunk of completely new missions before you can really say they added anything :p
 
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I bought The Sims back when it was first released in 2000 and after a while I realised, why the hell am I managing the time of these virtual beings when I could be managing my own time in real life? So I don't grind or farm unless it's fun or relaxing. I enjoy farming HazRes though, and I've started the Robigo runs this weekend and they're fun too. But I never did any trading. It's why I try to stay away from neutron star fields so I don't get bogged down farming them but also don't have to worry about missed opportunities.

All the real fun I've had has come from co-operation and working together towards a common goal. I prefer to think of the Elite universe as a sandbox to allow this emergent game play to come about.
 
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Does any of that equate to ED? I don't think so, people who rush to big ships are doing so because they hope the game is different when they get there I can't see any other reason why they'd do so, if there are cries for more content faster and quicker its not related to progression at the top end at all, and more to the fact the experience prior to the top wasn't enjoyable either (not my personal experience).

2.1 may well shake that up, but really I think they need a big chunk of completely new missions before you can really say they added anything :p
Those people are wrong though, and have been told it many many many many many times

But they carry on then hatestay and keep telling people about their misunderstandings about the game that they've determined through all their years of experience are unquestionably correct.
 
Fact is Robigo takes an inordinate amount of time. I'm probably putting in 4 - 6 hrs a night to achieve the pay-offs that we're all talking of. So actually from a Cr/hr perspective it's not as big as is commonly thought.

It can also be very frustrating at times. Not that I am expecting or fishing for sympathy.

Presently though I am enjoying this.

The problem I see with those whinging about Robigo is that they've never tried it or have and don't have the stamina/stomach/whatever to do it and are therefore jealous of those that do.
 
Those people are wrong though, and have been told it many many many many many times

But they carry on then hatestay and keep telling people about their misunderstandings about the game that they've determined through all their years of experience are unquestionably correct.

I think the complaints are valid though even if the reasons behind them are from people who are maybe misguided about what they actually want. Part of the game design must drive them towards thinking that way because I don't think anybody plays a random game and thinks, "Better rush to the end of this!" and thats probably the part i'd be trying to tweak the design for if i was the developer. Or at least understand what set off the MMO rush trigger ;)

I blame marketing, as usual.
 
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