Powerplay player factions is a bad idea.

[SkipRat]

Hm, I couldn't find it again but I did at some point read that FDev planned to

- allow non-PowerPlay Factions/Players to fight against a Power attempting to Expand into or Exploit them
- allow PowerPlay to better interact and base upon the existing (non-PowerPlay) Factions BGS

Haven't read anything about that in a long time, but moving PowerPlay from its (IMHO) currently superficial/artificial state (similar to operating in some form of parallel Universe with only extremely limited effect on the 'real' Factions) to a more interlinked and logical entity amongst the common Factions would surely help alot. Probably would also make it far more meaningful and interesting.

Currently, whatever Player Group was to become a Power, it'd have to fight on two entirely different Fronts : classic Faction BGS support and the parallel PowerPlay
(both not having much in common right now, they're more like playing two entirely different Games within a single Game world)

To me, it would feel extremely weird to Expand i.e. a Faction into new Systems but practically having to "drag" a PowerPlay bubble behind it - requiring to fulfill its very own PowerPlay Expansion mechanics, effectively doubling the needed efforts all the time. Both always being two separate entities.
I don't think I'd like that additional burden.

I also don't like Powerplay in it's current format. The experience is not about the individual, its about you and a 1000 other people moving leaflets from station A to target station B, or the reverse mechanic to fortify a system. It doesn't feel personal, you just feel like speck of dirt in a cog of a clumsy machine. If they had ranked missions and mission types and made a far greater use of bulletin board, they could have made Powerplay feel more personal, yes you are working with 1000 other players for a faction, but you have your own story on what you did to help it, making your own choices as you go along. It also doesn't feel like you are actually invading another system and gearing up for war and invasion, it's just not there yet, there is no real cleverness about it either, it just who has the most players and who is willing to grind more, that is it.

The other problem is the fact the players from different factions can get the bonus of the other faction members, spend a month with each faction and you can have all the different types of special gear on your ships, when really it should be one or the other, but that is whole other debate.

I also agree with your last sentences, not just for expansion, but for defending too, it makes the game unnecessary demanding, rather being more intelligent in design and tactical as you are trying to balance this mish mash of gaming mechanics that just don't just quite fit.

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That's convenient. Demand I defend my point and then skip out when it comes time to defend yours. You sir, are a master debator.

Nope. It really is that I do not want to argue with you, as I do not want it to become a tedious bore that everyone will ignore and that is nothing personal against you or the Diamond Frogs. As the intention of OP was to argue the mechanics of the game and the direction that the game is going in, rather than calling out an individual player or group that the conversation between us was heading in.

Therefore I respectfully pull back, before the thread becomes a farce and the real issues are not debated appropriately.

 

[MDFification]

I disagree with the notion that this game is 'becoming EVE'. In EVE, the only way to expand is through violence; in ED, the BGS is a lot more arcane and driven by its own workings, only influenced to some degree by player action. In EVE, you can freely create player groups (or even band those together into larger alliances) and hold territory for those groups within the game mechanics; in ED, you can ask Frontier to name a minor faction after you, and there's a possibility it can become a power player through a massive CG, but you personally never make decisions for your adopted faction or are able to choose who can participated or not.

I mean, if you choose right now, you can flip between power player factions pretty darn rapidly, prep random systems, and in general wreak havoc and nobody can stop you. Likewise, you could find a player group's adopted minor faction and potentially wipe it from the face of the galaxy by accepting missions that actually lower its local influence or giving it bad trade deals, and again nobody can stop you unless you choose to let them. This is not the kind of system that can sustain EVE-style faction-based mass PvP, and actually makes it pretty hard to attempt such a thing as players can just decide to go play in solo and wreck your chosen factions with zero possibility of retribution if they're dedicated enough. And there's simply not enough agency at the moment for any single player to dictate how two groups relate to one another; for example, the Kumo Crew can't stop wingless Delaine backers from prepping Mikunn if they happen to decide they should do it, while the Dukes can't really stop their faction from expanding into Wadir and potentially taking over if players randomly decide to give the Dukes good trades. So the peace deal between these two groups could break down at any point without either side's members actually violating the terms of the agreement. Can you possibly see EVE-style player groups competing with one another in a much less friendly way then we do here now under such circumstances?

So yeah, I don't think even if there's occasionally a player-backed minor faction that rises to power status we'll ever see ED become EVE.

 

[SkipRat]

I disagree with the notion that this game is 'becoming EVE'. In EVE, the only way to expand is through violence; in ED, the BGS is a lot more arcane and driven by its own workings, only influenced to some degree by player action. In EVE, you can freely create player groups (or even band those together into larger alliances) and hold territory for those groups within the game mechanics; in ED, you can ask Frontier to name a minor faction after you, and there's a possibility it can become a power player through a massive CG, but you personally never make decisions for your adopted faction or are able to choose who can participated or not.

That is exactly is what is happening in ED. The only way to take a system using the BGS (minor faction), is to take a faction to civil war in certain system and repeating the process over and over again to take all the stations and assets, through violence. You can freely create player groups in ED, create alliances with other groups and work together, the BSG can be influenced with ease by a player groups actions if you know what you are doing. The only thing you can't do is choose where your system expands too and that is it. There are also bugs that throw spanners in the works, but they will eventually be ironed out.

You can have who ever you want to participate and make alliances with who ever you want, undermine any faction you without any recourse as you point out with or without said alliances or groups.

 

[Privata]

That is exactly is what is happening in ED. The only way to take a system using the BGS (minor faction), is to take a faction to civil war in certain system and repeating the process over and over again to take all the stations and assets, through violence. You can freely create player groups in ED, create alliances with other groups and work together, the BSG can be influenced with ease by a player groups actions if you know what you are doing. The only thing you can't do is choose where your system expands too and that is it. There are also bugs that throw spanners in the works, but they will eventually be ironed out.

You can have who ever you want to participate and make alliances with who ever you want, undermine any faction you without any recourse as you point out with or without said alliances or groups.

But elite has actual interactive gameplay witch makes it better IMHO
However compared to eve a very simple economie (sadly) witch is its only downside

Elite dangerous is often talked about by the devs as a lifesim and thats the direction its going

 

[Silk]

Personally I think it is a great idea. Player created content that is approved by FDEV is going to be the lifeblood of the game. These player factions really have no control over the power, they only created the backstory and lore. Think about all of the wonderful content that the various player groups have added since launch.. It has definitely driven this game forward and not backward. The best thing about ED is that you can choose not to have any part of it.

 

[Privata]

Personally I think it is a great idea. Player created content that is approved by FDEV is going to be the lifeblood of the game. These player factions really have no control over the power, they only created the backstory and lore. Think about all of the wonderful content that the various player groups have added since launch.. It has definitely driven this game forward and not backward. The best thing about ED is that you can choose not to have any part of it.

I agree , at first in the very early days I was scared and upset by player made content as it had this habbit of making very cheesy names and being unlore friendly (scared of having Elite's version of battleship bob)
however over time there has been more good than bad , player activities have made new features apear and even lets FD know were to push first in terms of making content.

On top of that in the early days there were some epic fights between factions and ED NEEDS the tools to let them handel the disputes. (like when CODE had a war with another faction)

 

[Saool]

Someone with more PP experience answer this for me: If a power expands into your system does it change the local factions immediately or is said system just now residing within the sphere of influence for said power?

It has no effect on the BGS and factions whatsoever. Indeed the opposite is true. PP people are now getting to the stage where they are engaging in the BGS to try to make the systems more beneficial to the power. IE the government types of the systems within each control systems 15ly influence bubble determine the fortification and undermining triggers from that control system. This has been one of the methods by which Mahon's economy has become strong for a very long time now.

Traveller

You Sir may have cake and ice cream. (see sig).

 

[Jmanis]

It has no effect on the BGS and factions whatsoever. Indeed the opposite is true. PP people are now getting to the stage where they are engaging in the BGS to try to make the systems more beneficial to the power. IE the government types of the systems within each control systems 15ly influence bubble determine the fortification and undermining triggers from that control system. This has been one of the methods by which Mahon's economy has become strong for a very long time now.

This.

Having your system "Exploited" by a powerplay power is inconsequential at best, and has superficial impact at worst. I think the worst thing that can happen to you is have certain goods made illegal, or legal, and your black markets disappear, or appear. BGS remains almost unaffected.

Now, if your system happens to become a control system, that will affect player traffic in that system and may make it more hostile. But how many systems is that? 400-500 at most across the entirity of powerplay?

I think a lot of FUD comes out of people who really don't understand PP mechanics.

It's worth noting that the power being "elevated" suddenly becomes "off limits" to the players who put it there in the first place. They can't write galnet articles about that power and dictate it's behaviour, they can't submit CGs on that power's behalf, it's basically FD's thing from there out. The minor faction they started with though, that's still able to be fiddled with, provided it's got nothing to do with the power, and that's still the BGS, situation normal as it is right now.

 

[Helgarth]

We all blaze our trail , some have a brighter and bigger trail than others. and thats the way it should be.

I kind of hope elite become eve with gameplay to be honest

You're not alone on this one!

 

[DNA-Decay]

I kind of hope Elite becomes Skyrim in space!

I kind of hope that Elite becomes Papers Please in Space!

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Having your system "Exploited" by a powerplay power is inconsequential at best, and has superficial impact at worst. I think the worst thing that can happen to you is have certain goods made illegal, or legal, and your black markets disappear, or appear. BGS remains almost unaffected.

I think some of the CMDRs of Crimson State Group might beg to differ. Or [NULL] or any of the Player Groups that have moved their home to flee from PowerPlay.

PowerPlay was a disaster for Lugh. Many other groups found themselves badly situated.
And vice versa - Powers find that an antagonistic Player Group in their territory can be a real problem.

 

[metatheurgist]

Personally I think it is a great idea. Player created content that is approved by FDEV is going to be the lifeblood of the game. These player factions really have no control over the power, they only created the backstory and lore. Think about all of the wonderful content that the various player groups have added since launch.. It has definitely driven this game forward and not backward. The best thing about ED is that you can choose not to have any part of it.

That's one of the worst things about player involvement. All the horrid, horrid fan-fiction infesting my galaxy map!

 

[dynamicbob]

That's one of the worst things about player involvement. All the horrid, horrid fan-fiction infesting my galaxy map!

the devs could never generate enough lore and content to fill an empty galaxy anyway we add our weight

 

[Silk]

That's one of the worst things about player involvement. All the horrid, horrid fan-fiction infesting my galaxy map!

Fair enough lol, bit I think the system descriptions are a good read personally.

 

[hunvagy]

Fair enough lol, bit I think the system descriptions are a good read personally.

They are, but cringeworthy player group names are not. Some are good for a laugh, but most of them are just ripoffs of other intellectual properties, that should not show up in Elite. And this also applies for some Commanders whose creativity stops at calling themselves x hero from known sci-fi series, because that's so bloody unique. It gets really annoying after a while.

 

[Jmanis]

I think some of the CMDRs of Crimson State Group might beg to differ. Or [NULL] or any of the Player Groups that have moved their home to flee from PowerPlay.

PowerPlay was a disaster for Lugh. Many other groups found themselves badly situated.
And vice versa - Powers find that an antagonistic Player Group in their territory can be a real problem.

Why? How?

These have never been an issue for me, and i sit at the crossroads of three powers.

Additionally, while true that minor faction control can make things harder or easier for a power, most powers stick to dealing with control system fortifying/undermining as that's where the profits and real impact of PowerPlay is had. Likewise the player group will likely stick to systems their faction is in.

EDIT: what you are probably referring to is the bug that occurred with bgs influence changes after PPs introduction related to the daily cap, and massive swings that occurred. This happened to my faction too, sent me from 70% to 12% in a day or two in a system of 400m pop, which is capped at 1-2% change at most these days. I believe lugh is a similar size. But that has nothing to do with PP

 

[Deadspin]

Nope. It really is that I do not want to argue with you, as I do not want it to become a tedious bore that everyone will ignore and that is nothing personal against you or the Diamond Frogs. As the intention of OP was to argue the mechanics of the game and the direction that the game is going in, rather than calling out an individual player or group that the conversation between us was heading in.

Therefore I respectfully pull back, before the thread becomes a farce and the real issues are not debated appropriately.

How is it nothing personal against me or the Frogs? Your first reply to me was accusing me of hypocrisy because the group I played with asked a PP group not to expand in our direction. Do I need to go through the rest of the threads you post in and pull your goon fear/frog hate for quotes? My point was made over the mechanics and I used DF and an unnamed group as references. Your view of the game and how it's played is horribly skewed into a land of fantasy and scary monsters in the shadows.

Now that I've read a bit more of your writing though I'm led the believe that you're an EVE refugee, aren't you? You're attacking DF/GalCop because "goon" and directly associating us with eve goons, which is not the same thing by far and losing your mind over the fact that factions have come together to form alliances. Calm down son. This isn't EVE. Nobody is going to steal your pretty station or set up a bubble ambush to steal your shiny plex.

 

[Urbanski101]

I agree with the OP...a very bad idea but I'd like to go one further, player factions are a bad idea.

It all starts with the best intentions and right now it's not a huge issue...but this is a slippery slope and they now want to be part of power play and grow their influence and numbers.....this is just the start.

Player factions were a mistake but it's too late now, that can of worms has been opened.

And before everyone jumps on to defend their little imperial ambitions and asks how it affects me, right now it doesn't but I know one day it will. This is my opinion and I wanted to voice it to add to the argument against player factions and their involvement in Powerplay.

 

[Dommarraa]

What is needed is a massive background sim overhaul for minor factions which can feed into powerplay and uncontrolled space.

New colony expansion and retreat states are a good place to start

Please pass the smelling salts, I agree with bob /me Swoons
BGS should be PP, with the Powers simply being an alliance of Minor Factions. No need for any extra code, except to fix the BGS and show the Minor Factions Alliance on the PP Map.

I dont care about Player Powers, not interested, but I promise it will end in tears

 

[DNA-Decay]

Why? How?

These have never been an issue for me, and i sit at the crossroads of three powers.

EDIT: what you are probably referring to is the bug that occurred with bgs influence changes after PPs introduction related to the daily cap, and massive swings that occurred. This happened to my faction too, sent me from 70% to 12% in a day or two in a system of 400m pop, which is capped at 1-2% change at most these days. I believe lugh is a similar size. But that has nothing to do with PP

Diamond Frogs, Null, Communism Interstellar, all of these have had to move systems because of PowerPlay.
It's a common story.

Either PP activity has a bad effect on their BGS operations, Or the government of the factions they are growing goes against the dominant PP faction in their area.

CI have grown a Communist Bubble - not just the Workers of Manite. That would not work for a lot of Powers.

 

[Deadspin]

I agree with the OP...a very bad idea but I'd like to go one further, player factions are a bad idea.

It all starts with the best intentions and right now it's not a huge issue...but this is a slippery slope and they now want to be part of power play and grow their influence and numbers.....this is just the start.

Player factions were a mistake but it's too late now, that can of worms has been opened.

And before everyone jumps on to defend their little imperial ambitions and asks how it affects me, right now it doesn't but I know one day it will. This is my opinion and I wanted to voice it to add to the argument against player factions and their involvement in Powerplay.

You're just as bad as the OP then when it comes to paying attention to FDev. This isn't a case of factions coming together and petitioning FDev for a spot at the Power Play table, this was promised by FDev when power play was introduced. I swear, half of the complaining on this forum comes from people who struggle to read through the complete details of a newsletter or patch note list.