1 & 2) Then don't be rude: Stop suggesting people ought to play other games. They've paid more or less the same amount for Elite as you and have the same right to assess the game's balance and design.
Then I can only return you your own argument - don't be rude: Stop suggesting people currently playing (and fond of) the game to change existing rules according to your own wishes effectively transforming this game in something completely different the others would not want (or would be unable to) play, as "they've paid more or less the same amount for Elite as you and have the same right".
Btw, looking at this discussion, I'm honestly glad that the people here have the right to access game only, but not its design or balance - it's only developers prerogative=).
You know, this discussion looks somewhere like that kind of situation for me: two men arriving at the mall and see a big box with an appealing picture on it showing kind of stadium - or a table? - a pair of rackets, a net and a ball. The first one have also time to read that this box contains "full set for tennis", and may be knows a bit more about this production line, etc, the second one was... maybe he was just very "impressed" - at the beginning. Ok, the box has been bought. Upon arrival first man is very content with this purchase - he likes to play tennis. The second is... "unimpressed". He thought that this was a ping-pong game. Those games are somewhere similar. But he wants to play ping-pong, not tennis. So what he does? He starts to call support services of the above mentioned production line saying that they must recall all already purchased products and replace them for all customers with the "ping-pong" game so he can play with the first one and all the others in the game he is fond of (disregarding the fact that all those other people intentionally bought tennis). (ha, yes, service support has been "forced" already to send micro ping-pong for all their customers).
Yes, a big amount of simplification, some exaggeration, but like this you can get my point. I know that elite is currently in development. I know that there is people that purchased it before release (but this is a known risk with potential benefits that have became available later). Personally I've bought it only after official release and only after a little try-out.
3a) "Play your way - 400 billion star systems. Infinite freedom." => "Unless you're a combat player, then be good, stick to your system and farm your RES. Otherwise we'll punish you for chosing that path by wasting your time more than if you had other paths." This directly flies in the face of the game's own claim.
"... upgrade your ship and customize every component". You can be a combat pilot OR an explorer OR trader OR etc AT ANY time. You can change one role to another and then back again without any problems. You can be a combat pilot AND explorer AND trader but not all of them at the same time. Each profession in elite has some significant rollbacks/drawbacks, combat pilot is not more special than any other. Elite combat pilot is not the only elite in this game=) I really don't see any valid argumentation from your side here.
3b) Another argument/"Solution" I've heard before. And I'm as unimpressed as I was the last time. Why do you people suggest mechanics for avoiding playing the game as fix for the issues people are faced with while actively playing the game? It's the issues' root that ought to be tackled.
Mind blowing. I will be very impressed if the priority goal of this thread will be to impress you, personally=)
Jokes aside, as far as I see the biggest problem here is the fact that you take the liberty on your own behalf to call - the fundamental and very important features of present game mechanics - to call them "issues", that "ought to be tackled". And all those proposals are about new content, and not about "fixing" issues.
"actively playing" -? I'm playing actively. Or this "actively playing" means solely preferred "pew-pew"? As the only imaginable by you in-game player interaction?
As for the other points below. This is a game that claims it's about a player's freedom to chose their own path. Being a game and not our second or mabye third job
..and full list of mixed issues/complains. With some of them I can agree - but also I can live with it. Some of them can make me only smile.
The game not only claims, but also gives this freedom to choose. There is nothing that push you in game to hurry up and to grind ranks or credits besides your own decision. You need to fly to the other side of the bubble to a new CG event in a full combat fitted FDL/FAS?
a) no one but you take a decision to participate in this event, it's never mandatory, you can always wait for another in a proximity or do not participate in them at all.
b) it's only your decision to take this particular ship in this particular build. Reconsider ship/outfitting or take the consequences. This meta is good - defending given system, but not so good in travelling/fast attack from a long distance. Don't try to change the laws of the game universe just in order to make your meta good in all cases. Returning to my analogy with a huge and comfortable car - you can drive it to patrol your nearest neighborhood, may be taking for a ride a "girl next door" greatly impressed by your exterior=), but on the streets of the modern city it's not of a great use.
c) or how about some jumponium if you are really in a hurry? Ah, you don't want to collect it? So, it's your - free - decision.
And speaking about second/third job. It's only your responsibility to reconsider what kind and number of in-game activities you can afford. Nobody except yourself force you to do any. You know, Elite is a long-term project=) The same concerns all that PP thing.
So, if the path you chose requires you to use a vehicle with specific capabilities, the game damn well ought to remember it's a game and not punish you for chosing that path by minimizing your time spend participating in the core activity of said path. The "path" btw, isn't how you get to work, but what you do there. I think we all spend enough time getting to work and working outside of the game and I don't think combat players should be required to spend as much time "getting there" in the game, as they do IRL. Nor anybody else moving through the inhabited bubble btw..
I see at least two points here.
"vehicle with specific capabilities" - first point. If your meta cannot travel - it's a problem with your meta build and in-combat balance, not with jump range or the chosen "path". And it's not a "punishment", it's a normal tradeoff
And no, Elite - as far as I understand - is exactly the game about "getting there" and "action", not just "action", and also trading, exploring and many other activities. For only instant endless action - welcome to CQC. As this is exactly an "extended" on all inhabited bubble variation of CQC that you suggested with all those equal-instant jumps. Sorry, but no.
And yes, time and distance are the inseparable properties of space and consequentially of a game that pretend to be about "space" and mention something about simulation.
And yes, time and distance are the only possible natural boundaries between different political formations or any other kind of factions/powers.
And yes, time and distance and all the problems they raise for bloody-thirsty militarists are a kind of the indirect natural proof about the pure fantasy nature (not by any means "science" fiction) of all those interstellar war scenarios=)
Development team has already done a great work balancing this primary properties of the space - time and distance - in this virtual universe - and more work has been done in balancing simulation with so appreciated by you arcade play style. They have already committed enough crimes against physics and common sense - please, don't push them further in that direction aggravating their sins - as there is already an army of little red devils in tin foil caps waiting impatiently for them to begin the in-deep investigation=).
Think about this:
- To create a battle field/playing ground for the combat oriented spacesim there is no any reason to recreate a universe. Do you really pay attention to all those stars while in battle? No, may be only for the nearest one and - may be - for the nearest planet. 1+1=2 stellar body's. So where is the need for those "400 billion star systems"? Some reasonable number of backgrounds/textures is more than sufficient. An effective admiral must not at all count the stars somewhere in the sky - the only real concern for him must be the size and the number of the stars on his(her) shoulder straps=)
- funny thing, one can simply add some more realism - cut out this fantastic idea of FSD/jumps, cap the speed by far more natural "1c". Years to go to the nearest systems, all off the players are effectively enclosed in the starting systems and couldn't flee - ideal battle playground!
- when time/distance are no more important factors - due to your ameliorations to the "bubble" - trading will lost any remaining interest to the extent of vanishing. Also, regarding the new look of the bubble as an endless cqc-style combat zone I don't see any slightest reason to be in trading ship inside a combat zone.
Result: boring space filled with glowing spheres and some last pilots in absolutely identical ships appropriate solely for combat doing their "pew"-"pew" business (if they will not be the first to flee from this absurd theatre). May be some forgotten explorers at the extents of the galaxy.
- btw - are targoids must be also granted with the same possibility to travel fast in the human-inhabited space? They can be in a hurry and have some time-constraints...
I've also heard the "works for my ship (and you're free to take the same ship if it isn't working for yours!)" rethoric of your travel analogy a lot before when it comes to time spend marathon jumping through the bubble. It's as condescending and unhelpful as ever.
And this part make me actually laugh! Brilliant!
You know the most funny thing? How many times I've saw exactly the same kind of rhetoric but in far more... hmm... "cynic" forms from so-called "combat pilots"?=) And yes, with absolutely obligatory "Go play solo" suggestion=))) So maybe it's absolutely rightful to say "go play CQC"? No? Ah, "So don't be rude", "It's as condescending and unhelpful as ever", yes?=))))) Sorry, can't stand this, may be you not deserved this, but nearby asked for=)
I don't really get the "if you don't have time to play, then don't" argument.
I haven't said "don't", I've said - "you have options"=)
Imagine, I'm kind of a fool and have bought this game while having only 1 minute per day to play. My options? Surely to push developers and all existent players to adapt my precious game play style, no?
Yes, I know that this is not a good kind of extrapolation/argumentation - but it is legitimate. If you have 15 minutes all the other options become available. CQC or you can just start playing in a steady rhythm. Ten jumps, or no jumps at all but 1-3 missions, a battle or two. Your progress will not be in a rush, but it will be present. There is nothing imposed on you to be in a hurry - this is supposed to be at least a ten years long project. Ten, Karl!=) And if you want some "social" in-game interaction, than be aware that social in-game and IRL are exactly the same thing. Interaction is the part of the real world, so if you ready to spare an hour for this IRL than the same for the game is also true + a bit more (you are playing at the same time, some more actions to be performed).
Skyrim took me 1000s of hours to play through
Sorry, I haven't played Skyrim. But you've said "through", so I can assume that there is some kind of end play conditions, not sure. I'm pretty sure that you are aware that this is not the case of Elite. My current in-game play time is more than 1.5K hours and I'm considering myself as being not so far from the start=)
but for others, It is. And many people voice their frustrations over travel times.
It's not something FD should ignore, because less players, and a bad name is the last thing they want as a company.
Sorry, but as for any other game forums - and IRL situations, here mostly complainers are present (with some rare exceptions), as all other - content - voices tend to keep silence (as far as they are happy with the present state of things).
CQC isn't ED. It's just Space CoD. And rubbish(sorry FD) lol
And the primary reason for me to defend my position in this discussion - is to intercept any real or suggested possibility to transform ED in an arcade style Space CoD. And the logical result of many (not all) suggestions presented here is exactly this unwanted transformation.
Choosing a home system is a good start if you like to meet up, but CGs are often no where near where you are, due to the size of the bubble.
Besides of arguments mentioned above (about CG/fdl/fas/meta and your choices):
Someone likes to underline that Elite IS "Dangerous" (using this as an argument). If so, I can only add - and the universe is really VAST, and this property is somewhere/sometimes the only option capable to - partially - negate the "dangerous" part.
One another possible option - is to inject more distributed everywhere CG's simultaneously. But this requires additional overhead from game designers.
Using a traffic jam isnt exactly relevant BTW.
There is no real world equivalent to hyperspace.
Hmm, some property of the elementary particles has been named "flavor" (charm, beauty, etc), other - color, while having nothing in common with real flavors or colors. Simply there is no any "equivalent" in the observable world. Scientists just named them like this. Sorry for off-topic=)
My analogy with cars/traffic jam doesn't serve to illustrate any imaginary principles of the FSD functionality but rather to show possible player's behaviors/choices and is as relevant as any other analogy.
One thought I had, is FSD class, size and ship mass effect jump range, but why not supercruise acceleration/deceleration?
haven't performed any deep study of the problem, but supercruise ship's handling IS actually affected by ship size/type
Oh, I know you coudn't deny me, cmdr BurnyBurns! Here comes the most brilliant of your arguments, precious perl in my collection:
And what would capping travel overhead within the bubble to non sleep inducing levels change about that?
Nothing.
Because for any given activity where the volume of the performed activity is of interest, that has however a "latency" (travel overhead) and a "bandwidth" (time spend doing said activity at a given effectiveness), latency becomes negligible and time spend performing said activity at the given bandwidth is the deciding factor.
In Elite's terms, when you reduce travel overhead for long distance travel, the time will - unsurprisingly - remain the deciding factor. Any trader, explorer, smuggler or bounty hunter with more time at hand will still have more time at hand to effectively play the game when travel overhead through the bubble is capped at some reasonable level. The difference here is, that the game's travel design and balance wouldn't give players with less time at hand so much of a middle finger, when they'd like to participate in a community goal at the other end of the bubble during the one evening a week they might have. Especially for a combat player with relatively little time, Elite is like an internet connection with a ping so high, that it actually becomes an uncomfortably notable factor to the time they spend downloading a video.
But I guess accessibility of all of the game's activities for players with less time is undesired for some people? I just can't wrap my head around their reasoning. As seen above, their status would remain unchanged in relation to everybody else.
Good. Very good posed and self-answered question, good explanation. I can rep this, but I won't, as this is far better example of absolutely wrong assumption with accordingly wrong argumentation. I don't know either you intentionally try to fool other community members with this self-confident assumptions or you are just not competent enough? You just managed to simply substitute absolute values with their ratio's/relations - et voila! - you get in conclusion that "Nothing" would change!=)))))
Absurd.
This will change everything. And there is no need of so complex explanations - the transformation you've suggested simply called "scaling". Elite Universe is too big for you... Not, not the whole universe, only it's inhabited part is already too big - or - if you want - just don't fit well to imposed by you time constraints. You can't wrap it with your head (or grab it in your hands), not fair!
You can scale down an elephant to the dimensions of a fly, kill it occasionally with your slipper and then try to convince it that "nothing has changed". Or, returning to tennis analogy: at some level of abstraction you can perfectly scale down "tennis game" to the dimensions of a table, getting a pretty similar "ping-pong" game as a result. But just don't try to convince tennis players that this is the same game they've played and nothing has changed. Oh, only "partial" scaling? So you plan to just replace the middle part - net and surroundings - of the tennis court with your ping-pong table for personal amusement? Bravo! Just a special time-space anomaly in place of the inhabited space.
Also, many thanks that the rest of the galaxy you graciously leave for other professions (don't know what a trader will do in the uninhabited space). Also I have some heavy suspicions that if there will be any CG-like activity on the other side of the galaxy - that you must certainly visit just immediately - you'll suggest the same kind of castration for the whole universe.
And finally all this talk about malicious players planning to refuse accessibility for players with less time - the pure product of your imagination. As far as it doesn't affect gameplay of others and taking into account that this is your responsibility and restrictions. So far your suggestion drastically affect the gameplay of the others.
Personally I like the way your logic works, but cannot agree with any of resulting game ameliorations - directed solely for your personal comfort.
And you yourself already refused and called all proposed or potential options, solutions and workarounds - and some of them deserve at least to be think about - as just "fixes for game mechanics issues".
btw, italic emphasizing of the text doesn't serve to make a fact from a false assumption.
for sure you are doing something: going from a to b.
i get your point and you are right, most simulators compress time. that's why it's so awesome for me that elite just doesn't.
exactly this
We've got them fancy materials to gather and put into our FSD drive to gain 20%, 50% or 100% jump boost.
Interesting idea - at least to think about. At the first regard it is another sacrifice-chain to the grind-god.
This seems a valid point to me. You are sitting looking at "charging" graphic and a countdown timer when you could be doing something although I think any particular thing might be irritating after a while. I also fully support the "send my ship here" idea though perhaps with the caveat that there ought to be limits such that you can't say "send my ship to Sag A*" and you must have be in another ship or off line for the duration.
tend to agree with this.
But have some possible suggestions:
1) be able at the in-jump stage to somehow choose to which of available at destination gravitational wells to stick upon arrival (if there are more than one) Can be pretty handy sometimes=)
2) Pure fantasy - ability to switch to some absolutely different slice of reality... or flight mode?
Exiting somewhere in-between, or... ok. stop.
3) 45 seconds is too long to wait while doing nothing, I agree, also agree that they are way too short to have time enough to do something else. The easiest solution will be to reduce this "loading screen" time down as much as possible (conserving jump range), but it is technically impossible at the current stage as far as understand, but... One possible alternative is to increase - and may be significantly - jump time (don't kill me just here
) while conserving present jump range (strict no-no to more jump range tuning)=))) So one will have time to do "something" else, yes. The amount is to decide - I'm sure that there is people who can suggest minutes/hours and even month/years=) And one simple addition - that can have really many hard-to-predict consequences - is to implement not only "jump" button, but also "exit" button.
