RNG Crafting Critical.

It'll be interesting to see how it pans out in Beta, and how it's tweaked.
There already looks to be some merit based system determining what engineers are available to you, maybe these missions that the engineers set you shouldn't be just pass or fail - maybe the degree of skill / success (in whatever area it happens to be) could affect the rng values more?

I'd be fine with this, and it kind of goes along with what I suggested back on page two.

That being said, if people are willing to invest enough effort in achieving a specific goal, I think they should have the option to.

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Statements like this baffle me every time. Is playing the game so little fun that you need to be compensated with rewards for your "efforts"? If you really feel the need to get some rewards in order for the game to be worthwhile for you, are you sure you are enjoying it as is in the first place?

Who is "you?" I don't really do much "grinding" in the game.
 
I'd be fine with this, and it kind of goes along with what I suggested back on page two.

That being said, if people are willing to invest enough effort in achieving a specific goal, I think they should have the option to.


Well unless they solve mission stacking by putting both a seed (so all 3 modes are the same generated missions) and a max limit (like they did with rares), the only grind will be collecting 40 missions with the same objective(s) and completing them all in under 5 minutes. The "grind" will be making an upgrade then abandoning it... rinse, repeat.
 
Well unless they solve mission stacking by putting both a seed (so all 3 modes are the same generated missions) and a max limit (like they did with rares), the only grind will be collecting 40 missions with the same objective(s) and completing them all in under 5 minutes. The "grind" will be making an upgrade then abandoning it... rinse, repeat.

And considering their recent CG will probably be balanced around that requiring mission stacking to actually make anything at all :p
 

People will grind for 1337 loot either way. That should be pretty obvious.

We may have a difference of opinion and not agree with each other, but changing the other person's words to try and make their case somehow is pretty silly, in my opinion.

I'd prefer if we just agree to disagree, since we're apparently not about to change our opinions any time soon.
 
Who is "you?" I don't really do much "grinding" in the game.

Judging by your posts I got the impression that you are one of the people who feel the need to be "rewarded for their efforts". If that's wrong, replace " you" with "they" in my post above.
 
Well unless they solve mission stacking by putting both a seed (so all 3 modes are the same generated missions) and a max limit (like they did with rares), the only grind will be collecting 40 missions with the same objective(s) and completing them all in under 5 minutes. The "grind" will be making an upgrade then abandoning it... rinse, repeat.

I hope they resolve the mission stacking issue as well as I think it incentivizes an unintended game-play style that isn't immersive.

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Judging by your posts I got the impression that you are one of the people who feel the need to be "rewarded for their efforts". If that's wrong, replace " you" with "they" in my post above.

In that case, I basically agree with you, but I also acknowledged that there are people in games who work toward specific goals that may be challenging in order to enhance their perceived relative capabilities and positions within those games.
 
People will grind for 1337 loot either way. That should be pretty obvious.

We may have a difference of opinion and not agree with each other, but changing the other person's words to try and make their case somehow is pretty silly, in my opinion.

I'd prefer if we just agree to disagree, since we're apparently not about to change our opinions any time soon.

I'll try one last time, not to change your opinion but at least to make you understand what I say: with my proposal there is no 1337 loot to grind for. RNG can be implemented in multiple ways, and if you have semi-linked RNGs on each parameter which link to a fixed overall variable you cannot get a vastly superior mod by grinding, even if you did it an infinite number of times. I dont want to use RNG to make grinding 'harder' or more time consuming, I want to use RNG to add variety and uniqueness in a way where no ammount of grinding will lead to unbalanced module modifications.

I dont mind you having a disagreeing, but I do prefer if you disagree with the my actual idea. If your response starts with "grinders will get the best stuff anyway" you havent grasped it yet. :p
 
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I am perfectly fine with the way it appears this will work, in fact I am more intrested than ever now. I mean seriously, the one graphic says 75% chance of effect being applied, the component cost is minimal and people are getting bent out of shape?

Some folks want the world handed to them on a plate with zero effort; 2 weeks after 2.1's launch you will all be back to whining there is nothing to do.

Reminds me of the 100+ page thread we had when SRVs were introduced.

Folk bitterly complaining that they'd need to spend all their time collecting fuel materials or run out of fuel.

Anyone else remember that? Over 100 pages of it. [ugh]
 
Reminds me of the 100+ page thread we had when SRVs were introduced.

Folk bitterly complaining that they'd need to spend all their time collecting fuel materials or run out of fuel.

Anyone else remember that? Over 100 pages of it. [ugh]


There was also the SCB changes, a thread on each new ship and why it was worthless (including the Vette and Cutter) and a few others I've been trying to forget. :)
 
I'll try one last time, not to change your opinion but at least to make you understand what I say: with my proposal there is no 1337 loot to grind for. RNG can be implemented in multiple ways, and if you have semi-linked RNGs on each parameter which link to a fixed overall variable you cannot get a vastly superior mod by grinding, even if you did it an infinite number of times. I dont want to use RNG to make grinding 'harder' or more time consuming, I want to use RNG to add variety and uniqueness in a way where no ammount of grinding will lead to unbalanced module modifications.

I dont mind you having a disagreeing, but I do prefer if you disagree with the my actual idea. If your response starts with "grinders will get the best stuff anyway" you havent grasped it yet. :p

They will try and get the best that they can, so if there is any amount of meaningful difference that can be obtained based on the meta, how they choose to RP, or whatever, they will try and get it.

If there is no significant difference, then sure, but why bother with having it in the first place? Flavor text?
 
Can I just ask.

I think we know nothing about the underlying RNG at this time, is that right, or have people managed to figure something out?

I mean for example is each bar independently RNG'd its value, or are they linked in some way?

Frontier aren;t stupid, my feeling is they've spent quite a bit of time thinking how it would work, the choice on the RNG I'm sure would surfaced and a decision will have been made on it one way or another.

As a result my gut feeling is the bars are not independent.
 
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If there is no significant difference, then sure, but why bother with having it in the first place?

We'll find out in a few days. For all we know, high level upgrades could have a serious amount of variation above what we've been shown. It's like the mission screen update and people complaining about the low payout, without looking at the rank for the mission.
 
Can I just ask.

I think we know nothing about the underlying RNG at this time, is that right, or have people managed to figure something out?

I mean for example is each bar independently RNG'd its value, or are they linked in some way?

No info whatsoever, hppefully we'll know tuesday. Its basically my point: it matters enormously if its just fully independently randomized over each parameter or not. The former makes it potentially very grindy, the latter not.

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They will try and get the best that they can, so if there is any amount of meaningful difference that can be obtained based on the meta, how they choose to RP, or whatever, they will try and get it.

If there is no significant difference, then sure, but why bother with having it in the first place? Flavor text?

I am sure you agree that it is not that binary: there is a very distinct difference between '1337 stuff' and 'meaningfull difference'. People will grind nearly forever for 1337 loot, nearly nobody will do that if the RNG creates somewhat different but equally valuable improvements. Remember you have different types of improvement, so you can specify what you want for RP and such by chosing the type of mod, and the RNG will add mild flavor and uniqueness. Its like guitars: they are all different, and appreciably so, and musicians have a great choice in what they prefer. But even if you go for a specific brand, model and year, there are subtle differences that you get to discover as time goes by, and nobody spends decades going from store to store to find that one-out-of-a-billion guitar. I dont know any musician that would want all guitars from the same model, year and brand to be identical, and I dont want that with ships either. :)
 
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Can I just ask.

I think we know nothing about the underlying RNG at this time, is that right, or have people managed to figure something out?

I mean for example is each bar independently RNG'd its value, or are they linked in some way?

Just speculation really at this point, as far as I'm aware, but the fact that there is "randomized loot" at all is pretty concerning to many, myself included, due to the potential ramifications that have been discussed in this thread.
 
WEll on the RNG, perhaps each CMDR needs a "luck" stat that can be influenced by in game actions.

Obviously the type of action that I typically exhibit would be the good luck increasing ones, and the type of action that other CMDRs exhibit would reduce their luck.

(joking)

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Just speculation really at this point, as far as I'm aware, but the fact that there is "randomized loot" at all is pretty concerning to many, myself included, due to the potential ramifications that have been discussed in this thread.

Sure but a lot of their concerns seem to distill down to that question.

(which I added to the stream questions thread though someone probably already did it before me)
 
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After reading the newsletter and watching the screenshots I quite like the idea of experimental modifications influenced partly by luck.
I'm looking forward to that...
(The missing /sarcasm tag is intentional - I really like the Idea :D )
 
...

I am sure you agree that it is not that binary: there is a very distinct difference between '1337 stuff' and 'meaningfull difference'. People will grind nearly forever for 1337 loot, nearly nobody will do that if the RNG creates somewhat different but equally valuable improvements. Remember you have different types of improvement, so you can specify what you want for RP and such by chosing the type of mod, and the RNG will add mild flavor and uniqueness. Its like guitars: they are all different, and appreciably so, and musicians have a great choice in what they prefer. But even if you go for a specific brand, model and year, there are subtle differences that you get to discover as time goes by, and nobody spends decades going from store to store to find that one-out-of-a-billion guitar. I dont know any musician that would want all guitars from the same model, year and brand to be identical, and I dont want that with ships either. :)

Yeah, there would be a range of "grinders" based on the amount of people that are willing to "grind" for a particular randomized feature. Some people might even go for something that's rare or perceived as being rare.

But yeah, if the differences are mostly just "cosmetic," then that doesn't give anyone an unfair advantage/disadvantage for their work, so I don't really have a problem with that.
 
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