Is "Save"ing still a legitimate tactic to avoid destruction ?

This is pure speculation with zero evidence.
Anyone posting this while undergoing legal education really needs to pay more attention to their studies or failure is a real danger.

It is speculation, which is why I wrote "most likely." However, the crucial fact of the case is that the OP safe combat logged, regardless of the circumstance.

So I suggest any opposing counsel to seriously re-examine their case and voice a proper objection.

My view, for what it is worth - logging when your ship is in danger is wrong, but if you can survive the FDev stipulated time interval to enable exiting the game via the provided method, then the ship is clearly not in danger.

Except that in this case, FSD was disabled on the victim, with the aggressor in pursuit, hence the 15 seconds that is supposed to mimic a high-wake fail to stand as a valid excuse.
 
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Y'know Gluttony, a good lawyer for the OP's defence could pick up on the fact that the only reason the FdL managed to catch up with the Conda, was because the OP - after having escaped the clutches of the FdL and had gained a good distance from it - decided to Save & Exit the game, and as you know, this would cause the Conda to slow to a standstill relative to the FdL.

In fact I'd pick up on exactly that if I were a lawyer acting as defence for the OP.

IF the OP had decided to just keep boost-boost-boosting away, the FdL would never have caught up with it. In fact I'd wager that the FdL would run out of fuel way before the Conda had this chase lasted for hours :) - notwithstanding the fact that had this been the case that it would have been likely that the Conda and the FdL would be lost to each other well before one ship ran out of fuel, seeing as the Conda's boost speed was obviously faster than the FdL's ;)

I'm sure a judge would see that this is a mitigating factor for the OP.

It hasn't escaped my notice that the one thing that - for want of a better phrase - the rabid PvP'ers get their endorphin-rush the most out of, is seeing the other ship go KABLOOEY! This appears to be a prime motivation for their behaviour in this game. Denying these players their KABLOOEY! seems to me that it's rather like depriving an addict of their rush, and bad things always happen due to that. This might explain why the CMDR of the FdL was so persistent in chasing after the Conda - they wanted their KABLOOEY! pretty badly. ;)
 
I see the Professor's making friends and influencing people again!

However, the crucial fact of the case is that the OP safe combat logged, regardless of the circumstance.

So I suggest any opposing counsel to seriously re-examine their case and voice a proper objection.

*Laughs*

OP, I wouldn't do what you did (for various reasons), but I wouldn't sweat it – you didn't break any "rules". A lot of people here lack any sense of perspective. It's a ***damn video game. Outside of this very niche community (and to a large extent within it too), the notion that whether or not someone chooses to exit a make-believe world at a certain point has any bearing on their "honour" would be considered ridiculous.

But of course, this is the Internet... ;)
 
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This post goes nowhere since The Code, SDC, and all the other zealots out there who believe that they need to impose their beliefs on others by going into Private Private groups. If they want to kill you they will. Noob or not. I play in open which guess what SDC and Code are rarely in because they Q.Q no one is in Open. I actually find it safer to fly in Open then in Mobius. Any time I run into any of the sadists out there I make it my personal mission to waste as much of their time as humanly possible. Why do I do this you ask? Everyone feels entitled to do as they wish and so I impose my will on others. I had a group of 3 SDC chase my Clipper the other day (first contact in 4 weeks roughly) for 3 hours while I watched a movie and awaited the inevitable destruction of being ganked while laughing that they had nothing better to do... I lost my trading Clipper (I know better than to use my Cutter) but I would like to think it was a win/win. They got to kill me while I got to laugh at them for wasting hours trying to catch me.

If people want to use a 15 second timer to      off people left in by FD let em until FD officially states on the matter. After all they did leave in Robigo which is another thing I laugh at. I do not care if people used that yet people need to impose their will on people for doing so. For those who say it is not the same thing... YEAH IT IS. So put me on your kill list (assuming you can even find me) I enjoy a good laugh and I will make you work for you kill. I gave up on PvP ages ago since of combat logging. Guess what I do not care if they combat log because its FDs faulty system. Sorry guys when Game modes came out it became PvE.

/rant
 
Y'know Gluttony, a good lawyer for the OP's defence could pick up on the fact that the only reason the FdL managed to catch up with the Conda, was because the OP - after having escaped the clutches of the FdL and had gained a good distance from it - decided to Save & Exit the game, and as you know, this would cause the Conda to slow to a standstill relative to the FdL.

If his FSD wasn't disabled, I would probably say that it wasn't as much of a deal since it just simulates high-wake.



IF the OP had decided to just keep boost-boost-boosting away, the FdL would never have caught up with it. In fact I'd wager that the FdL would run out of fuel way before the Conda had this chase lasted for hours :) - notwithstanding the fact that had this been the case that it would have been likely that the Conda and the FdL would be lost to each other well before one ship ran out of fuel, seeing as the Conda's boost speed was obviously faster than the FdL's ;)

That is a speculation and an outrageous one. The only thing we have to work with is that the FDL stopped firing.

FDL downgraded to extreme low speed has a boost of 330+ and a travel top speed of 260+

Conda upgraded to the extreme high speed has a boost of 280+ and a travel top speed of 210+

It's just improbable.

I'm sure a judge would see that this is a mitigating factor for the OP.

A judge would throw the case out completely since safe combat logging is completely allowed.

It hasn't escaped my notice that the one thing that - for want of a better phrase - the rabid PvP'ers get their endorphin-rush the most out of, is seeing the other ship go KABLOOEY! This appears to be a prime motivation for their behaviour in this game. Denying these players their KABLOOEY! seems to me that it's rather like depriving an addict of their rush, and bad things always happen due to that. This might explain why the CMDR of the FdL was so persistent in chasing after the Conda - they wanted their KABLOOEY! pretty badly. ;)

I don't know, I get frustrated at combat loggers not because they don't go "kaput (I don't want them to kaput to begin with)," but they don't throw up all the cargo before they go "poof."

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This post goes nowhere since The Code, SDC, and all the other zealots out there who believe that they need to impose their beliefs on others by going into Private Private groups. If they want to kill you they will. Noob or not. I play in open which guess what SDC and Code are rarely in because they Q.Q no one is in Open. I actually find it safer to fly in Open then in Mobius. Any time I run into any of the sadists out there I make it my personal mission to waste as much of their time as humanly possible. Why do I do this you ask? Everyone feels entitled to do as they wish and so I impose my will on others. I had a group of 3 SDC chase my Clipper the other day (first contact in 4 weeks roughly) for 3 hours while I watched a movie and awaited the inevitable destruction of being ganked while laughing that they had nothing better to do... I lost my trading Clipper (I know better than to use my Cutter) but I would like to think it was a win/win. They got to kill me while I got to laugh at them for wasting hours trying to catch me./rant

Okay...?

Can't speak for SDC, but The Code outlawed mode invasion a long time ago. Plus if you play along with SDC, you're not wasting their time, you're validating their time.

If people want to use a 15 second timer to off people left in by FD let em until FD officially states on the matter. After all they did leave in Robigo which is another thing I laugh at. I do not care if people used that yet people need to impose their will on people for doing so. For those who say it is not the same thing... YEAH IT IS. So put me on your kill list (assuming you can even find me) I enjoy a good laugh and I will make you work for you kill. I gave up on PvP ages ago since of combat logging. Guess what I do not care if they combat log because its FDs faulty system. Sorry guys when Game modes came out it became PvE.

/rant

The hypocritical and irony meters are going way over, I'm just going to let it sit and settle down.
 
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If his FSD wasn't disabled, I would probably say that it wasn't as much of a deal since it just simulates high-wake.

Objection! Changes the frame of the original argument - which was that the Conda - as stated by the OP - had gained so much distance from the FdL that the FdL's weapons were no longer reaching the Conda ;)

That is a speculation and an outrageous one. The only thing we have to work with is that the FDL stopped firing.

So now all I can do is boost and wait to die. So I kept boosting, he kept firing, but amazingly I'm gaining ground. Slowly the hits get much less damaging and I keep boosting....and boosting.... At 13% hull my shields come back online (thats a long time in a Conda). I keep boosting. The firing stops.

A judge would throw the case out completely since safe combat logging is completely allowed.

That statement would be true only if your first sentence was the actual accepted framing of the argument and not the fact that the Anaconda was managing to increasingly gain distance from the attacking FdL :)

I don't know, I get frustrated at combat loggers not because they don't go "kaput (I don't want them toe kaput to begin with)," but they don't throw up all the cargo before they go "poof."

I can empathise with that. I've never tried being a pirate but I can imagine that seeing your intended prey disappearing into the aether would be highly frustrating, seeing as you're actually playing an advertised in-game role.

The problem with piracy as I see it, is that there's no actual mechanism for Piracy Declaration - so the game simply doesn't know your piracy intentions, and then there's no programming there to decide whether a player has interdicted another player with the intent to pirate them, or whether the interdiction to a clean status CMDR is down to an intent to murder them.

Regards <O
 
You also said "Thats all." but you haven't shut up since then on this topic.

Well, yea, like you haven't "shut your mouth" other than sniping a post?

Oh look, mudslinging?

Anyway, on a serious note, people have an issue with me stating that the OP will be registered on KoS lists, so I explain to them why it's illogical with the myriad nonsensical argument that has been flying my way, that's all.
 
So - did I do wrong ?
No. You've offended some people who have no life outside of ED. What's the problem?:D

....... zealots out there who believe that they need to impose their beliefs on others by going into Private Private groups. If they want to kill you they will.

FWIW, I've never encountered a grieferate in hundreds of hours of gameplay in the PGs I regularly use. If Mobius isn't free of the pests, use a different PG. Makes them as irrelevant in the game as they are outside it. Or, if it amuses you, continue to play with them. Life is good!
 
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well, I'm ready to be in Kos lists, I actually don't find his leaving combatlog to avoid destruction as he was already out of the combat zone, so I'm not a PvP, and I do pvp, but he hasn't lost my respect.

The FDL however is someone to blame too. none of them used the comms before starting a fight, op to apologise because of his mistake or the FDL to ask about what is going on, this is what can make me loose respect.

I still haven't read in any psychology book about loosing the communication hability when you become a PvP player in ED, saying you don't want to talk to someone firing you just because he started is a child argument, just in case.. and in this case the FDL clicked silent running instead of comms panel.
 
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Hey, I told him it's perfectly fine, and he technically did nothing wrong, I'm respecting the ethic of my profession! @_@

GluttonyFang - my original posting is the truth. I truly thought I was out-running the FDL. I was amazed - I didn't think it possible - but there it was happening. I also thought that "Save"ing when I did was a legitimate action. There I was out-running an FDL for a LONG time (the time it takes for Conda shields to regen) then time with no shots - I thought I was safe to save.

After spending an hour or so in EDs I now know that can't have been the case. The FDL must have just been playing with me - like a cat with a mouse. He had the time it takes for a Condas shields to regen to kill me and didn't. His first shot took out my already very weak shields and he very quickly reduced my hull to 31%. From 31% down to 13% took a LONG time - time for 7A shields to re-gen - and the firing stopped well before the shields came back up. My shields re-genned - he's still not firing - I boosted a few more times and saved. I'm not arguing that I offended you and others on here. I'm just stating what happened as I remember it. If a situation like this was to occur again how long do I stay boosting before I can relax, reboot/repair, limp 4000Ls in normal space ? I was upset about being accused of combat logging by the guy in the FDL - I do not want it to happen again.

Logically - in a "cat and mouse" situation - surely the cat should be aware of the "Frontier Sanctioned" method by which the mouse can escape ? Perhaps the cat was aware but left it that little bit too long before going for the kill ? Should the mouse be repped or scorned ? But there again, what has logic got to do with this game or peoples opinions ?

Just as a bit of info - Synthesising a BASIC FSD Injection seemed to fix the FSD for supercruise - it still failed on high-wake but low-waked just fine. I was starting the 4000Ls "limp" when I tried it in desperation....
 
Objection! Changes the frame of the original argument - which was that the Conda - as stated by the OP - had gained so much distance from the FdL that the FdL's weapons were no longer reaching the Conda ;)

But your honor, speculation... :D

The defendant testified that:

"Before I could jump into super-cruise he had my shields down and my hull is slowly crumbling. I went to high-wake out and, horror of horror, my FSD is unavailable, offline. He had shot it out. So now all I can do is boost and wait to die. So I kept boosting, he kept firing, but amazingly I'm gaining ground. Slowly the hits get much less damaging and I keep boosting....and boosting.... At 13% hull my shields come back online (thats a long time in a Conda). I keep boosting. The firing stops. I boost a couple more times, try my FSD - its still off-line, still no firing so I hit "Save and exit to Desktop". The 15-second count-down takes forever and towards the end I can hear the firing start again. Any second I'm expecting to hear the Conda explode.....and suddenly I can save... Phew - close call....."


As we can see here, the defendant merely testified that he was gaining ground, a cease of firing from the aggressor does not mandate the possibility of being out of range.

If such speculating were allowed, it's more likely that the aggressor believe his prey has no mean of escape considering the status of the victim's FSD and decided to make use of the communication panel.

That statement would be true only if your first sentence was the actual accepted framing of the argument and not the fact that the Anaconda was managing to increasingly gain distance from the attacking FdL :)

Except that it's pretty much improbable considering the quantified data I'm providing:

FDL downgraded to extreme low speed has a boost of 370+ and a travel top speed of 275+


Conda upgraded to the extreme high speed has a boost of 280+ and a travel top speed of 210+


Pilot error is very much unlikely considering the FDL pilot has the ability to accurately destroy the FSD of the Conda.

I can empathise with that. I've never tried being a pirate but I can imagine that seeing your intended prey disappearing into the aether would be highly frustrating, seeing as you're actually playing an advertised in-game role.

The problem with piracy as I see it, is that there's no actual mechanism for Piracy Declaration - so the game simply doesn't know your piracy intentions, and then there's no programming there to decide whether a player has interdicted another player with the intent to pirate them, or whether the interdiction to a clean status CMDR is down to an intent to murder them.

Regards <O

Indeed, which is why I've proposed that kind of mechanic as a part of my proposal:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=235327
 
I was upset about being accused of combat logging by the guy in the FDL - I do not want it to happen again.

Probably the only way to prevent this is to stop playing in Open.

Seriously, have you read the posts on here? Never gonna happen.....and why do you care? As previously pointed out in other threads, many/most of the people that complain the loudest about CLing do it themselves regularly. No honor there, so why concern yourself with their opinions?
 
No. You've offended some people who have no life outside of ED. What's the problem?:D

"Nah, telling people that they disrespect other players by conducting safe combat logging when they do tend to offend those who have never accepted any responsibility in real life."

Asinine? Yes.

Funny? No.

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Seriously, have you read the posts on here? Never gonna happen.....and why do you care? As previously pointed out in other threads, many/most of the people that complain the loudest about CLing do it themselves regularly. No honor there, so why concern yourself with their opinions?

Oh dear, stereotyping from one incident with one particular individual again, no wonder why people don't take you seriously.
 
GluttonyFang - my original posting is the truth. I truly thought I was out-running the FDL. I was amazed - I didn't think it possible - but there it was happening. I also thought that "Save"ing when I did was a legitimate action. There I was out-running an FDL for a LONG time (the time it takes for Conda shields to regen) then time with no shots - I thought I was safe to save.

After spending an hour or so in EDs I now know that can't have been the case. The FDL must have just been playing with me - like a cat with a mouse. He had the time it takes for a Condas shields to regen to kill me and didn't. His first shot took out my already very weak shields and he very quickly reduced my hull to 31%. From 31% down to 13% took a LONG time - time for 7A shields to re-gen - and the firing stopped well before the shields came back up. My shields re-genned - he's still not firing - I boosted a few more times and saved. I'm not arguing that I offended you and others on here. I'm just stating what happened as I remember it. If a situation like this was to occur again how long do I stay boosting before I can relax, reboot/repair, limp 4000Ls in normal space ? I was upset about being accused of combat logging by the guy in the FDL - I do not want it to happen again.

Logically - in a "cat and mouse" situation - surely the cat should be aware of the "Frontier Sanctioned" method by which the mouse can escape ? Perhaps the cat was aware but left it that little bit too long before going for the kill ? Should the mouse be repped or scorned ? But there again, what has logic got to do with this game or peoples opinions ?

Just as a bit of info - Synthesising a BASIC FSD Injection seemed to fix the FSD for supercruise - it still failed on high-wake but low-waked just fine. I was starting the 4000Ls "limp" when I tried it in desperation....

Yea, it's just as I expected, he shot out your FSD so he basically wanted to toy with you by giving you the illusion that you're getting away. A little sadistic for my taste I'd say, but then it's within accepted combat parameter of the game.

Basically look at it this way, if you engage in combat, and you feel that you can't win, start fleeing via high-wake. If your FSD gets shot out and you don't have a AFM handy and you're in a slower ship with less firepower to defend yourself, you kind of have to accept that death, it's courtesy for the player that cornered you.

Just as if we make people's cargo disappear upon their destination of trading/mining/smuggling, exploration data randomly disappearing for no reason, bounty hunting targets disappearing before destruction, people will be frustrated, and to call it a functional part of the game just adds fuel on that, not only on Cmdrs looking for blood but also for those who legitimately want to engage in player piracy. There is a reason why there's so much tension between members of the community, don't become one of them, that's all I can ask for.

And for your information, I took your name off of a few KoS lists, it seems like you're not the type that does it to frustrate people and genuinely care about the people you interact with. Just remember, no matter what method, legitimized or not, if you are doing it to frustrate people, you're a part of the problem, not the solution.
 
OP's post poses a simple question - is it 'legal' as Per FD's game rules. The answer is 'yes'

There's a second, implicit question though which is 'did I do something really, really lame'. That one has the same answer.

If you undock in open, you know what the potential outcome could be. Own it.
 
But your honor, speculation... :D

The defendant testified that:

"Before I could jump into super-cruise he had my shields down and my hull is slowly crumbling. I went to high-wake out and, horror of horror, my FSD is unavailable, offline. He had shot it out. So now all I can do is boost and wait to die. So I kept boosting, he kept firing, but amazingly I'm gaining ground. Slowly the hits get much less damaging and I keep boosting....and boosting.... At 13% hull my shields come back online (thats a long time in a Conda). I keep boosting. The firing stops. I boost a couple more times, try my FSD - its still off-line, still no firing so I hit "Save and exit to Desktop". The 15-second count-down takes forever and towards the end I can hear the firing start again. Any second I'm expecting to hear the Conda explode.....and suddenly I can save... Phew - close call....."


As we can see here, the defendant merely testified that he was gaining ground, a cease of firing from the aggressor does not mandate the possibility of being out of range.

If such speculating were allowed, it's more likely that the aggressor believe his prey has no mean of escape considering the status of the victim's FSD and decided to make use of the communication panel.



Except that it's pretty much improbable considering the quantified data I'm providing:

FDL downgraded to extreme low speed has a boost of 370+ and a travel top speed of 275+


Conda upgraded to the extreme high speed has a boost of 280+ and a travel top speed of 210+


Pilot error is very much unlikely considering the FDL pilot has the ability to accurately destroy the FSD of the Conda.

However, since there is no testimony from the pilot of the FdL in question, we have no idea of the condition of the FdL at that time. It is not outwith the bounds of possibility that the FdL's condition was in a degraded state, seeing as it too was in the same Hazardous RES as the Anaconda and was - again presumably - engaging in Bounty Hunting and may have sustained damage to its systems. If, for example, the FdL's thrusters were in a degraded state, then that is one scenario in which the Anaconda might be able to outrun the FdL. ;)

I propose that without further information, we have reached a stalemate. :)



Indeed, which is why I've proposed that kind of mechanic as a part of my proposal:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=235327

I shall read that after some sleep, as I am now retiring to my quarters <O
 
However, since there is no testimony from the pilot of the FdL in question, we have no idea of the condition of the FdL at that time. It is not outwith the bounds of possibility that the FdL's condition was in a degraded state, seeing as it too was in the same Hazardous RES as the Anaconda and was - again presumably - engaging in Bounty Hunting and may have sustained damage to its systems. If, for example, the FdL's thrusters were in a degraded state, then that is one scenario in which the Anaconda might be able to outrun the FdL. ;)

I propose that without further information, we have reached a stalemate. :)

*Facepaw*

Trial is adjourned.
 
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