Changes to the 15 second exit-in-danger menu timer? [Poll]

[Robert Maynard]

Do I have to remind people what FD's definition for griefing is?

It'd be worth quoting / linking to - as a reminder....

 

[ever]

make it as long as the self destruct option

 

[frostypaw]

How about an invulnerable ship and infinite energy bombs? Some folks in this community..[blah]

I think if you read other threads you'll find many, possibly including yourself, suggesting folk should have just high-waked out rather than quit.

If you think about what I've said I'm just talking about automating that procedure - so if it's a valid mechanism noone has any reason to complain, if it's not then people should stop suggesting it's what people should do.

Lord only knows where you got invulnerability or anything at all about energy bombs from.

 

[TiberiusKirk]

Yes.. it's a sad fact, but Frontier Developments do not actually have the power to say what English words mean ;-) "Combat logging" is admittedly internet slang but it is nevertheless a contraction of real English words with real meanings. Frontier can use said words in a specific way but they that doesn't make it authoritative when there's already a well understood meaning.

>>but it is nevertheless a contraction of real English words

It is a pretty minor contraction, it is simply short for 'combat logging out.' There's little misunderstanding or complexity there.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Why would someone not relevant to something be able to vote on the matter is my question.

Same reason why I walk into a philosophy conference and expect all that are contributing have some sort of relevant experience and preparation before presenting their research, it's that simple.

Not saying that it's simplistic to determine what players are affected or not, but it's the simple idea of qualifying.

Players directly affected by combat logging:

1) Receiving party of a combat logging

2) Combat logging utility party

The change would affect every player who may wish to leave the game while "in danger" - the state which triggers the exit-delay-timer - in all scenarios where the game considers the player to be "in danger" - not just at the receiving end of PvP....

Are you suggesting that those players would be unaffected by the proposed change?

 

[frostypaw]

Yes.. it's a sad fact, but Frontier Developments do not actually have the power to say what English words mean ;-) "Combat logging" is admittedly internet slang but it is nevertheless a contraction of real English words with real meanings. Frontier can use said words in a specific way but they that doesn't make it authoritative when there's already a well understood meaning.

It's their game buddy, it means whatever they want it to mean. Complain enough and they'll change the wording perhaps but the meaning won't change.

 

[Fosdyke]

Leave as it is now. a combat logger will always be, you will not change a bad behavior with a timer.

 

[GluttonyFang]

The change would affect every player who may wish to leave the game while "in danger" - the state which triggers the exit-delay-timer - in all scenarios where the game considers the player to be "in danger" - not just at the receiving end of PvP....

Are you suggesting that those players would be unaffected by the proposed change?

Again, I already wrote that PvP related issues are the most affected, not that others who are either in utility or are affected by it directly are irrelevant, I wrote that clearly.

 

[Varrag]

Zero doubt? Can the player who notices a ship vanishing tell the difference between a lost connection, hardware failure, ISP problem, router problem, etc. and a conscious cable-pull or ALT-F4?

Fair point, should have said "less doubt".

 

[Robert Maynard]

Again, I already wrote that PvP related issues are the most affected, not that others who are either in utility or are affected by it directly are irrelevant, I wrote that clearly.

I'm glad we agree then - and everyone affected by the proposed change gets to vote.

 

[Nerwan]

>>but it is nevertheless a contraction of real English words

It is a pretty minor contraction, it is simply short for 'combat logging out.' There's little misunderstanding or complexity there.

Absolutely, if you log out with the 15 second timer, you're still "logging out during combat" and are therefore still "combat logging".. There are rules based distinctions beyond that but it's it's still clear as you say.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Absolutely, if you log out with the 15 second timer, you're still "logging out during combat" and are therefore still "combat logging".. There are rules based distinctions beyond that but it's it's still clear as you say.

.... and, for this game, Frontier make / enforce the rules.

 

[Nerwan]

It's their game buddy, it means whatever they want it to mean. Complain enough and they'll change the wording perhaps but the meaning won't change.

No.. that's not how languages work.. And the phrase "combat logging" is used widely..

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

.... and, for this game, Frontier make / enforce the rules.

Indeed

 

[Mekajinn]

Elite: Care Bear...    .

Did I just see someone saying they want to preactivate the 'yes' option during the countdown... in case of emergency, like their wife calling them? You're wife can wait fifteen seconds mate... and if she can't you should reorder your list of priorities so that losing a space ship in a computer game isn't a big deal.

This game is being ruined by care bears.

 

[Colonel Kenney]

Everquest had 30 seconds. It worked. Just use it and be done with it.

 

[Riverside]

IIRC it takes 5 secs to jump to supercruise (low wake), subject to mass lock. It takes 15 secs to charge for a system Jump (high wake). I presume the 15 sec timer to log out via the menu is based on this.

It could take a little longer to high wake if you have to first select a system from the left menu, you can align with it while the FSD charges.

I'd have to disagree that only those affected should have a say, surely anyone in open is fair game to be interdicted (whether they like it or not), and anyone not in open is currently being encouraged to do so. So this potentially affects all players, and they should have a say in it.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

not trying to be a pedant but cant vote... in principle i would be in favour of increasing it slightly but ONLY if it auto logged out once the time counted down so i could be awol by that point.
but with the mechanism as it is now, i would vote to keep the same... people need to be able to log out for real life issues and with networks being networks one cant assume everyone logging off is by choice, so to auto kill anyone who disconnects at any time in a combat environment is not the answer.

PS never logged out - aside from crashes - from combat myself btw before anyone starts with the "carebear logger" , I am just able to see beyond my own needs.

When the phone rings i have to answer it, when the doorbell goes, i have to answer it, even tho 90% of the time it is a cold caller or Jehovah's witness or some such there is always the chance it will be something important, but I am not prepared to lose 10 hrs gameplay to a PPI caller on the off chance that it may mean some pew pewer who just wants to blow me up for the hell of it does not get to get his/her jollies.

 

[Maxmilian Czhilli]

Your internet goes down twice a month, and how many of those times are you in active combat / danger?

I've been booted out of combat with lost connections twice in the last six months. But this isn't about one player, it's about all the players it might happen to.

Personally I don't mind loosing my ship and cargo. I never log out of combat, NPC or player, nor any other danger I get myself into. I've let my ship be annihilated by a wing of silent griefers without attempting to exit the game. However I would find it hard to accept loosing the large stock of Jumpomium materials, that have taken me hours and great effort to accumulate, because of some ham fisted attempt to crackdown on a problem that I haven't contributed too.

You even admitted in you post that some innocent people would loose out:

Some collateral damage will be incurred from people losing connection when in combat and that's unfortunate but unavoidable.

Just how much collateral damage is acceptable to you? What price in time and effort would you personally be prepared to pay in your holy war against combat loggers? Why should others have to pay for a crusade that isn't important to them or simply has no impact on their gameplay at all?

I'm of the opinion that combat logging is selfish, which is one of the reasons that I don't do it. But it seems that many who make a big fuss about it are just as selfish and are happy to penalise innocent players, playing the game as intended by the developers, just to satisfy their wishes about how the game should be played.

We are getting way off topic here. This thread is about legal logout to menu. I voted to keep it as it is. FD are collecting info and analysing combat logging behaviour. Changing the logout timer prematurely risks changing behaviour and making that analysis more difficult. If FD make changes to legal logout based on their analysis then I'll be happy to support them. I think they are in a better position to come up with a solution that suits the majority of players than the amateurs on the forum.

 

[TiberiusKirk]

When you legitimately quit the game e.g. to menu, a quick snapshot of your game should be sent. This should be less than 10kb if it simply reports location, and whether under attack.

There should then be a much longer timer - maybe 2 minutes.

If a player genuinely loses his/her internet connection, the snapshot would support that case and he/she could contact support.

This is an issue that many players clearly worry about, and FD seem absolutely blind to. It would take a quick meeting and a day's coding to implement.

 

[StiTch]

I thought people combat log with alt f4, or ctrl alt del, or smashing the router to pieces with a hammer, etc.. Don't think increasing the timer will have much of an impact on things.

This. I don't get all the kerfuffle about the timer. The only change they can make that'll impact the face of the game is to remove it so people can do a "legit CL", which I for one would find painful.