Well, yes - but you weren't the one asking how I'd change things. Steady on, no need to get tetchy over internet spaceships. We're all on the same side here >.>
Oh. Well...carry on then. My bad
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Does FD really think this is "healthy" balance?
- Thread starter Dave1029
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Well, yes - but you weren't the one asking how I'd change things. Steady on, no need to get tetchy over internet spaceships. We're all on the same side here >.>
Oh. Well...carry on then. My bad
those ships don't have the same mass.
while theoritically possible, it's very VERY unlikely...
Indeed, but it would be a very dramatic increase in jump range.
Yup, probably too much. A mid-range jump point of around 15 to 16 LY with an A-rated FSD would be reasonable I think, especially given how many small ships routinely break that range quite easily. Problem is, the FdL is caught between two FSD grades - current is too short (IMO) and the next one up would likely be too far. No intermediate 4.5 level to allow for less dramatic tweaking. [blah]
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Fd already did the improved truster-
They could, in fact, add the improved Fsd making a module beetwen 4 e 5.
It would be an easy solution.
With Eng mod you get 15.91 more or less, but in my opinion it's still too low.
18 ly would be perfect.-
FDL, the ultimate bounty hunter, except of course you can't catch anybody. Makes sense.
You realize WEIGHT isn't the only factor, right? There's also an issue of physical size. You can't put a 100ft object in a 50ft space, no matter what the weight.
That was a joke. It was more to emphasize how silly the imbalance is. That my Conda can still jump farther while HAVING THE MASS OF ANOTHER SHIP PUT INSIDE IT. My tradeaconda can go 19 LY with 452 tons.
You had your chance, I don't talk to people as vapid as you - welcome to my ignore list.
Hello Commanders!
The Fer-de-Lance is a prestige warship. With exceptional speed and firepower, it can generally dictate terms of combat better than any other ship. It has a specially constructed hull that is inherently more resistant to smaller weapons than any other ship and it's the fastest, most manoeuvrable ship to mount a huge weapon hardpoint. Fully kitted out and in the hands of a skilled pilot, there's no single adversary that can't be overcome.
In short, it's an unqualified combat monster.
Clearly, it's a heavily specialised vessel, and specialisation within a role comes at a cost - a poor jump range that prohibits useful exploration and limited storage that makes it a poor trader.
Travel distance is a factor that we don't want to ignore when developing ships; we think it's a valid part of the equation when looking at ship balance and differentiation.
In addition, season 2 will hopefully see the introduction of ship transportation, allowing Commanders to have vessels transported to their current location. This should further help Commanders fly the ship they want to fly, at the location they want to be at.
The Fer-de-Lance is a prestige warship. With exceptional speed and firepower, it can generally dictate terms of combat better than any other ship. It has a specially constructed hull that is inherently more resistant to smaller weapons than any other ship and it's the fastest, most manoeuvrable ship to mount a huge weapon hardpoint. Fully kitted out and in the hands of a skilled pilot, there's no single adversary that can't be overcome.
In short, it's an unqualified combat monster.
Clearly, it's a heavily specialised vessel, and specialisation within a role comes at a cost - a poor jump range that prohibits useful exploration and limited storage that makes it a poor trader.
Travel distance is a factor that we don't want to ignore when developing ships; we think it's a valid part of the equation when looking at ship balance and differentiation.
In addition, season 2 will hopefully see the introduction of ship transportation, allowing Commanders to have vessels transported to their current location. This should further help Commanders fly the ship they want to fly, at the location they want to be at.
Its ok for the FDL, but what about a Viper mkIII, why an anaconda ora a Cutter cannot carry it, like sidewinder or other small ships.
Hello Commander Bigskill!
If you mean why is it not possible for an Anaconda to store a Viper, the simple answer is that they're actually still really big ships which an Anaconda would not be able to easily carry without being significantly redesigned!
However, ship transportation should help to get the ships you want to fly to your location.
Apologies if I misunderstood your question.
If you mean why is it not possible for an Anaconda to store a Viper, the simple answer is that they're actually still really big ships which an Anaconda would not be able to easily carry without being significantly redesigned!
However, ship transportation should help to get the ships you want to fly to your location.
Apologies if I misunderstood your question.
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I know you guys were pretty busy working on engeneers and 2.1 but there are things left behind that need attentions.
-Players trade
-docking in the space between player ships
-stations on the ground and on the space, owned managed by player groups
this is something that would be nice to see, as well as, being able to attack conquer and maintain these stations (Coriolis and Outposts) will add immersion to the game, so that players can actually fight for something, and not only random pvp in CG or pre arranged matches.
War between factions, Thargoids are coming ok, this is nice but we need core game attentions to me, but asap, lot of backers that make this game possible are quitting because of this.
Plz let us know whats boiling in the pot.
-Players trade
-docking in the space between player ships
-stations on the ground and on the space, owned managed by player groups
this is something that would be nice to see, as well as, being able to attack conquer and maintain these stations (Coriolis and Outposts) will add immersion to the game, so that players can actually fight for something, and not only random pvp in CG or pre arranged matches.
War between factions, Thargoids are coming ok, this is nice but we need core game attentions to me, but asap, lot of backers that make this game possible are quitting because of this.
Plz let us know whats boiling in the pot.
No problem I wrote the sentence in a very bad english too during a 5 min break at work
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Thanks for the clarification Sandro. I still disagree that FSD range should be used for balance to the extent that it is, but I appreciate clear communication on the subject
Do you have any comment on the fact that instead of the intended effect of variation in ship usage this might actually lead to the opposite - i.e only a select few ships seeing any real use because the others become a chore for any activity that requires travel?
'ello Sandro [big grin]
I agree, the FdL is a specialized ship and it shouldn't be able to compete with multiroles and other role-specialized ships outside of combat. I don't think anyone would ever ask for the FdL to carry wodges of cargo, waltz between star and planet filled to the brim with scanning equipment and samples, or leap huge gulfs of space in a single bound, but compared to the Python it...well, seems to be paying an awful lot for its mad ninja skillz, I suppose is what I'm saying :x Sometimes it feels like maybe a bit too much for the cost bracket.
FdL internals: 5, 4, 4, 2, 1
Python internals: 6, 6, 6, 5, 5, 4, 3, 3, 2 (!)
Fuel and ship system grades too, though there is a 100 ton difference between the ship hulls. The Python can jump further and still fight pretty well on top of it all, hence the handwavium nudging of the FdL's internals, fuel and jump performance for its cost. As I said though, I just run numbers based on personal opinion rather than what dark and terrible system secrets the team knows. I certainly don't expect them to be taken seriously
Thanks to you and the team for all your hard work on 2.1 by the by, and good luck for the launch! [up]
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Hello Commander Bigskill!
If you mean why is it not possible for an Anaconda to store a Viper, the simple answer is that they're actually still really big ships which an Anaconda would not be able to easily carry without being significantly redesigned!
However, ship transportation should help to get the ships you want to fly to your location.
Apologies if I misunderstood your question.
Hi Sandro!
I actually have a related question about ship-launched ships.
A while back, you answered a question about ship-launched fighters in which you said that standard ships like the Sidewinder and Eagle would not be ship-launched - as there was a worry of 'russian doll' syndrome where a ship could launch another ship which could then launch an SRV...
The thing is, the actual description of the Anaconda in the shipyard says that it can carry and launch a Sidewinder.
I know things may have changed since then, but I was wondering what the issue was? I can see there might be technical issues of what happens to a carried ship's cargo, etc. But as long as the smallest ship that can launch other ships (Keelback currently) cannot itself be carried, then the russian doll issue would only extent to three levels - main carrying ship, carried ship, SRV carried on carried ship. The main ship could also be carrying an SRV, but that seems like a separate internal module. Am I missing some of the real difficulties of it (over and above the difficulties of ship-launched fighters, which must be crazy)... it wouldn't surprise me if I am?
It just would be kind of cool to rock up in orbit around a planet, deploy a Sidewinder, fly down to the surface and then deploy an SRV from the Sidewinder and drive it around
Hello Commander Bigskill!
If you mean why is it not possible for an Anaconda to store a Viper, the simple answer is that they're actually still really big ships which an Anaconda would not be able to easily carry without being significantly redesigned!
However, ship transportation should help to get the ships you want to fly to your location.
Apologies if I misunderstood your question.
You have probably gone, but just in case
Will the Anaconda sill be able to carry a Sidewinder as its Shipyard description once stated or will it be F63 Condor/ISRF sized parasites only
Thanks for the clarification Sandro. I still disagree that FSD range should be used for balance to the extent that it is, but I appreciate clear communication on the subject
Do you have any comment on the fact that instead of the intended effect of variation in ship usage this might actually lead to the opposite - i.e only a select few ships seeing any real use because the others become a chore for any activity that requires travel?
Except making a small jump distance balances nothing. Nobody is getting anywhere in a hurry - it's almost pointless having jump ranges passed 10 ly's since it doesn't ever accomplish anything useful except less loading screens. The explanation from FD is an explanation, but nobody cares about jump distances when your at your destination. If I'm fighting an FDL i'm not thinking to myself "So glad it has a crap jump distance"
Anyway, he already said what the real balance would be in his reply which is that if the FDL is so specialised then you don't allow it to fit scanners and cargo holds - that's the correct answer. letting it be specialised in what exactly - being able to do everything every other ship can do? No, this is not specialised.
The FSD never needed restricting, the internals and equipment did. That would make more sense than this nonsensical restriction on jump ranges. Fuel should have always been the limiting factor on jumps anyway and jumps should have taken time based on distance, not how quick your PC loads the next instance.
Why not? If i need to highwake out its actually good to know i jump further away then him... even if i can't its unlikely he have a high wake scanner AND an interdictor. ( If he have both i should not have this problem in the first place
)For me the fsd range is a huge balancing aspect and i like frontier decisions. Shuttle service should help the problems you are having, too. So why not?
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I chuckled at the "equivalent cost and power" for the FDL and Python. The FDL has MUCH more power in terms of Credits/Power ratio then the Python. A python fitted to perform roughly the same cost much more then the FDL.
Why not? If i need to highwake out its actually good to know i jump further away then him... even if i can't its unlikely he have a high wake scanner AND an interdictor. ( If he have both i should not have this problem in the first place
For me the fsd range is a huge balancing aspect and i like frontier decisions. Shuttle service should help the problems you are having, too. So why not?
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I chuckled at the "equivalent cost and power" for the FDL and Python. The FDL has MUCH more power in terms of Credits/Power ratio then the Python. A python fitted to perform roughly the same cost much more then the FDL.
As has been discussed over and over, do you think you can't lose someone chasing you? You just pointed out the 2 things they need to get you anyway and how unlikely that was so right off the bat, you've destroyed your own argument LOL. On top of that them getting back in the same instance as you and being able to follow you wake after wake, sc after sc and that doesn't start to address the issue of ships with less jump range than an FDL.
It's a pity you think highly improbable outcomes need to be balanced. Why don't you agree that and FDL shouldn't be allowed cargo space or planetary scanners? The Dev himself just said the ship was made specifically for fighting.
Also, when's the last time anyone here got chased by another player? It's a poor argument. You can agree with it, but it's still a massively flawed concept and I don't fly one either. I have a viper but I rarely log on to play anymore. I might try a Robigo run to see what it's like before and after the patch (unless the patch is already out, wouldn't know, game's not interesting enough right now to play)
Additional: It limits exploration? This coming from a Dev? So exploration is just jumping from system to system then. If you're going to explore the universe, doesn't every system need exploring and scanning? This goes to show what the expectancy of exploration in ED is, nothing but honk jumping whilst on road trip. The only reason to have larger jump distance is to get somewhere quicker. Getting places quick means not staying to "explore" - you have a destination to get to and since all the stars are already mapped and known, how is that "exploring"? So what we have is jump distance shouldn't matter because exploration emphasis should be in the system itself, not being able to get somewhere more quickly.
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