The Star Citizen Thread v 4

[1500]

Item 2.0 priority over physics VS necessary for improvements to physics:

Yep, just said that.

Not that real physics has even been a priority for CIG. We can hope that CIG fix their poor management at some point and focus development on the core systems and not fluff. When so much is broken, it just seems silly to shelve it in order to add a clothing shop.

 

[Insignificant_The_Galaxy_Cat]

Don't know if you are THAT guy or not, anyway SC to me has turned away from the idea and now try to copy as much from other games as possible. The flip flop to PG worlds and proclaiming better tech than anyone else out there, is just another sign of lost reality from CIG.

Hmm, not sure if the guy posting that is "The One Who Shall Not Be Named" or someone just copy and pasting his latest blog post. However I'm like you thinking that the sudden shifting of focus from a small, well contained and supposedly highly detailed selection of systems to travel between, into this apparently sprawling gaming area that now has procedural generation as a center piece of it, when for the longest time Chris himself and other members of the CiG team had disparaged such a system as "boring" and creating an "empty" gaming experience.... That shows me that these guys are panicking and panicking *hard* about how to now alter their games' aims now that Elite is advancing and evolving, AND other space-based games are rapidly approaching release, with CiG lagging behind badly.

 

[MaxLexandre]

Yep, just said that.

Not that real physics has even been a priority for CIG. We can hope that CIG fix their poor management at some point and focus development on the core systems and not fluff. When so much is broken, it just seems silly to shelve it in order to add a clothing shop.

If one engine rewrite that implements new tech, is necessary to improve physics (as long with several other things side of the new features), then the necessary improvements can't be prioritized, even if they want to, until the tech is available. Same way they couldn't do large-scale maps before 64bit, as it is quite obvious.

 

[Ian Phillips]

This is a Star Citizen thread.

Please keep your posts on-topic.

 

[milligna]

Just a bit of (mostly baseless) speculation: I don't think CIG started pushing PG just because they are in a blind dash to copy other games, but because it's one of the development streams that isn't being interrupted by Chris Roberts' attempts to micromanage everything. I guess some guys have been working at PG algorithms somewhere in Germany, and when CIG needed to show some tangible progress somewhere, their work was just presentable enough to be shown.

Hmm yes, probably a bit of both... and of course, the sad reality that there's no way they can actually churn out 100 handcrafted systems for launch despite years of sneers about PG and how empty and boring it is. Fun to see the quiet turnaround on that topic. A tech demo isn't that impressive tho, let's see them actually stick a PG planet in that creaking, groaning CryEngine mod!

 

[VidarSnipes]

Hmm, not sure if the guy posting that is "The One Who Shall Not Be Named" or someone just copy and pasting his latest blog post. However I'm like you thinking that the sudden shifting of focus from a small, well contained and supposedly highly detailed selection of systems to travel between, into this apparently sprawling gaming area that now has procedural generation as a center piece of it, when for the longest time Chris himself and other members of the CiG team had disparaged such a system as "boring" and creating an "empty" gaming experience.... That shows me that these guys are panicking and panicking *hard* about how to now alter their games' aims now that Elite is advancing and evolving, AND other space-based games are rapidly approaching release, with CiG lagging behind badly.

I'm not sure Elite has any impact on CIG's tactics right now. With the amount of negative attention ED gets on internet, I feel the only advantage it has over SC from PR standpoint is "it's released".

 

[1500]

If one engine rewrite that implements new tech, is necessary to improve physics (as long with several other things side of the new features), then the necessary improvements can't be prioritized, even if they want to, until the tech is available. Same way they couldn't do large-scale maps before 64bit, as it is quite obvious.

Yes and what has stopped them from doing real physics the last 2.5 years? Like I said, perhaps they should have focused on the core of a SPACE SIM, you know like flying your ship instead of adding an outlet mall to the game.

Until they actually manage to get the basics done, and working correctly there is little point adding more broken junk on top. All they are doing is making it harder and harder to fix the underlying issues, anyone that has done even a little bit of coding can tell you that.

 

[Toumal]

I think ED managed 75 players in one instance.

Yes but.... it's not great. It can't be with P2P. And if someone thinks i am talking out of my ass, go ahead, but i do speak with 15 years of "XP"

 

[milligna]

I'm not sure Elite has any impact on CIG's tactics right now. With the amount of negative attention ED gets on internet, I feel the only advantage it has over SC from PR standpoint is "it's released".

Yes, I'm sure the many discrete borrowings and completely coincidentally timed releases and insecure version numbering whenever they put something out is just one of those things... your opinion is fun, but ED is an impeccable VR experience and the benchmark for space sims right now. 1:1 scale galaxy with a seriously satisfying flight model is nothing to sniff at if you care about space sims!

Yes and what has stopped them from doing real physics the last 2.5 years?

it makes me wonder what that John Pritchett guy does all day. Surely he doesn't work full time, probably a contractor brought in here and there. Probably like the vast majority of their much-vaunted hundreds and hundreds of employees. Maybe he does great work that is promptly ignored, but for all these years of talk about the amazingly realistic physics... i'm not seeing it. Insert Tom video here. Not that I'd even mind if it were fun, but man - AC and the baby-PU aren't that fun. Only the janky bugs provide comic relief.

(Checks to see if 2.1 or Goat Citizen landed yet)

 

[MaxLexandre]

Yes and what has stopped them from doing real physics the last 2.5 years? Like I said, perhaps they should have focused on the core of a SPACE SIM, you know like flying your ship instead of adding an outlet mall to the game.

Until they actually manage to get the basics done, and working correctly there is little point adding more broken junk on top. All they are doing is making it harder and harder to fix the underlying issues, anyone that has done even a little bit of coding can tell you that.

They have done physics, they have physics, EVA has shown visible improvements to the way physics behave on that aspect. On other aspects, there is more work to be done. Today, the matter of fact is they aren't finished, and development is ongoing on that as tech being developed for long starts to finally making its way into the game.

 

[lysan]

Yes but.... it's not great. It can't be with P2P. And if someone thinks i am talking out of my ass, go ahead, but i do speak with 15 years of "XP"

Well they never promised it either, so 32 is not a problem we know that. I guess they will try to get the upper limits stabilize.

 

[Voivod]

Yes but.... it's not great. It can't be with P2P. And if someone thinks i am talking out of my ass, go ahead, but i do speak with 15 years of "XP"

There's advantages and disadvantages to using P2P or Client/Server networking which can easily be seen with a quick google.

Saying "it's not great" isn't really an argument.

 

[Asp Explorer]

But Max - urm, physics has to work consistently within its own in-game universe. I just see no evidence of that at all unfortunately. It's like they are picking random routines for the fun of it.

 

[Toumal]

There's advantages and disadvantages to using P2P or Client/Server networking which can easily be seen with a quick google.

Saying "it's not great" isn't really an argument.

True but, i didn't want to go into detail about those. To summarize, each additional peer adds a nonlinearly growing amount of bandwidth requirement. Each additional peer makes everything worse for all peers.

I hope SC isultimately going for a hybrid or pure C/S approach.

 

[MaxLexandre]

But Max - urm, physics has to work consistently within its own in-game universe. I just see no evidence of that at all unfortunately. It's like they are picking random routines for the fun of it.

Physics in here are just not "1 thing" that is developed and that's it. SC is a game requiring a quite complex system at place when it comes to physics. From Physics Grids, transitions between grids, EVA, the FM, Collisions, and so on, it heights on physics but it's not a "do it for 1 do it for all". Only the grids, even with their issues, show one clear progress and achievement on their work done with physics, if you see nothing here, it may be because you want to see nothing. =/

 

[dsmart]

Hey...Derek(if that's you)....well I for once don't expecting anything good any more from CIG....I think that they will probably manage somehow to finish SQ42 which is going to be full of cut-scenes and it will feel more as a (B-SF)movie than a game..but beside that I give up on SC FM or better controls...Even if they manage to build PU that will work at all I doubt that will be anything close to what was pitched years ago...and yeah CIG money grab at this point is so obvious that feels a bit unpleasant to watch some of their faces lately....

Yes, it's me. I already gave the mods a confirmation via several avenues. I have been following this thread for quite sometime now. Today, I simply got fed up of the wanton disinformation that some keep posting. So I felt that it was time I went in clean, clear, and naked.

As to SQ42, I can't say much atm, but that's why I made this Tweet this morning.

https://twitter.com/dsmart/status/735830496328966144

Think: Star Marine. That's all I can say for now, as I am awaiting final confirmation from sources. At which time I will update everyone.

 

[Mu77ley]

Yes but.... it's not great. It can't be with P2P. And if someone thinks i am talking out of my ass, go ahead, but i do speak with 15 years of "XP"

I can't disagree with that, but for the usual day-to-day player experience of bumping into the odd player here and there (and some of them are *very* odd), or occasionall small clusters of players, P2P is a far superior choice than Client/Server.

 

[AlPilg]

I'm just waiting for the parkour stuff, I mean can you imagine it ever working.

 

[Asp Explorer]

Max - the laws of physics as defined by the game engine absolutely must be consistent and obey themselves as set out in the game engine. Otherwise they are not laws, and it's not physics.

 

[MaxLexandre]

Max - the laws of physics as defined by the game engine absolutely must be consistent and obey themselves as set out in the game engine. Otherwise they are not laws, and it's not physics.

When it's also too much based on prediction. Far what i understand what they're going on that aspect is get more control of what happens, overall behavior. As long it's believable it doesn't need to be "real". Obsession with realism easily backfires on games.