Discuss the AI here!

[Hexcaliber]

It is a bad design decision.

Having NPCs with engineer mods AT ALL is a bad decision

Having NPCs with engineer mods immediately on RELEASE of the upgrade is an absolutely stupid decision which shows no consideration for the userbase whatsoever.

I think F D are sitting back this weekend and having a good laugh just to make up for the long hours they put in with the great update but this overpowered AI is really getting up peoples noses.

Why, because you say so? Does not work like that, never has.

The consensus before this update was that the ai offered little or no real challenge, and everyone had an opportunity to speak up when those threads were being made. It would seem FDEV agree, and are now addressing the problem. No matter how much you would rather face roll, they cannot then go and introduce a whole slew of mods that vastly improve ships making the AI near harmless once again. Incoming balance changes notwithstanding, adding those same mods to the AI has been done to keep the new NPC balance close to where they want it.

It is true the AI could have gained engineers mods over a period, but they did not, and now we get on with it. Most players who bothered preparing before this release are already sporting mods of their own and benefiting from them. If folks lacked the foresight to do the same more fool them, we had more than enough notice they were on their way and that the AI would have them too.

The number of knee jerk reactions and drama from folks getting their panties in a wad is frankly ridiculous. Nothing is set in stone, the game is constantly being balanced as content is added, and if background data shows the balance went to far in one direction the developers will address it.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

Why, because you say so? Does not work like that, never has.

The consensus before this update was that the ai offered little or no real challenge, and everyone had an opportunity to speak up when those threads were being made. It would seem FDEV agree, and are now addressing the problem. No matter how much you would rather face roll, they cannot then go and introduce a whole slew of mods that vastly improve ships making the AI near harmless once again. Incoming balance changes notwithstanding, adding those same mods to the AI has been done to keep the new NPC balance close to where they want it.

It is true the AI could have gained engineers mods over a period, but they did not, and now we get on with it. Most players who bothered preparing before this release are already sporting mods of their own and benefiting from them. If folks lacked the foresight to do the same more fool them, we had more than enough notice they were on their way and that the AI would have them too.

short version from hex - "you SHOULD have done all the stupid pointlessly dull srv and mining jobs but now you wont be able to haha. play one way or leave. and oh tough poop to the poor people with 1.6 and macs."


feh.

 

[Shawnski]

Well, luckily it is there in future for people who genuinely want to understand how this reservoir concept works. Otherwise they will be - like you - wasting pips to shields when they could be used for the engine and weapons reservoirs.

BTW, your confusion might arise from the fact that the ENG system uses a different approach - I don't know why, as it is inconsistent. More pips to ENG does affect your speed and manoeuvrability, *as well as* the recharge rate for boost. But the other pips merely restore a reservoir.

Does that help?

Unless the mechanic has changed in the latest patch, it is you that is incorrect about the reservoir on systems for shields.

[video=youtube;RrSXvCEergY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrSXvCEergY[/video]

 

[rasputinman]

oh dear , too hard has overtaken just right , , will it get the majority , , hope it does

 

[Cmdr Roma]

Why, because you say so? Does not work like that, never has.

The consensus before this update was that the ai offered little or no real challenge, and everyone had an opportunity to speak up when those threads were being made. It would seem FDEV agree, and are now addressing the problem. No matter how much you would rather face roll, they cannot then go and introduce a whole slew of mods that vastly improve ships making the AI near harmless once again. Incoming balance changes notwithstanding, adding those same mods to the AI has been done to keep the new NPC balance close to where they want it.

It is true the AI could have gained engineers mods over a period, but they did not, and now we get on with it. Most players who bothered preparing before this release are already sporting mods of their own and benefiting from them. If folks lacked the foresight to do the same more fool them, we had more than enough notice they were on their way and that the AI would have them too.

While you make some good points you are forgetting new players, I keep harping on about this but every game needs new players and Elite Dangerous more so because it's an evolving game. As it stands new players will quit playing inside a week

 

[CMDR Sir Edison Trent]

That % in the poll is still ever changing, i expect after the bank holiday is up the too hard % will be around the same as the just right & too easy combined.

Then it's decision time for the devs, how do you please a 50-50 split when they are vast opposites.

 

[TiberiusKirk]

Unless the mechanic has changed in the latest patch, it is you that is incorrect about the reservoir on systems for shields.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrSXvCEergY

Someone posted some official designer comments in links in a thread not far above this. Read them. I don't need to.

BTW, the youtube test is great - but it is a ship under constant attack. And of course recharge rate becomes important under those circumstances.

I strongly suggest you read my earlier post so that you finally get it.

 

[sndle9]

Well, luckily it is there in future for people who genuinely want to understand how this reservoir concept works. Otherwise they will be - like you - wasting pips to shields when they could be used for the engine and weapons reservoirs.

BTW, your confusion might arise from the fact that the ENG system uses a different approach - I don't know why, as it is inconsistent. More pips to ENG does affect your speed and manoeuvrability, *as well as* the recharge rate for boost. But the other pips merely restore a reservoir.

Does that help?

Cant find the official one from the programmer, but take a look at this... Then decide who needs to accept they are not always correct...

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=138536

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

oh dear , too hard has overtaken just right , , will it get the majority , , hope it does

there is a thread in bugs about the npc mods issues we need people to go say its not necessarily the AI causing this.

 

[Para Handy]

Why, because you say so? Does not work like that, never has.

The consensus before this update was that the ai offered little or no real challenge, and everyone had an opportunity to speak up when those threads were being made. It would seem FDEV agree, and are now addressing the problem. No matter how much you would rather face roll, they cannot then go and introduce a whole slew of mods that vastly improve ships making the AI near harmless once again. Incoming balance changes notwithstanding, adding those same mods to the AI has been done to keep the new NPC balance close to where they want it.

It is true the AI could have gained engineers mods over a period, but they did not, and now we get on with it. Most players who bothered preparing before this release are already sporting mods of their own and benefiting from them. If folks lacked the foresight to do the same more fool them, we had more than enough notice they were on their way and that the AI would have them too.

Yes the AI combat was rubbish - the AI now are good, much improved. What I decry is the preponderance of engineered mods.

1.6 users can have no mods - full stop - therefore exposing them to AI with mods was a really crass decision by FD.

Having AI fully equipped with modified weapons on launch when NO PLAYER has a chance of attaining any sort of compensating mods is a totally stupid implementation that basically tells the userbase - hey look what we did - HA HA ...

At the very least they could have introduced modded AI over a period of time.

Originally the mods were supposed to be very rare, whining by people in beta that wanted to have the super-powered stuff they got for fish meant F D caved in and basically opened Pandora's Box.

 

[lysan]

I really hope that FD don't panders to the lowest common denominator, the game needed this, and has become a 100% better because of this.
The world need more challenges, not fewer. Everyone want instant satisfaction, if you can't shuffle a meal into your head in 5 sec. it "socks".

If you need to read a manual OMG, this SOCKS! It's the same in the DayZ community, the game has been doomed since 2012, however the devs there just explained the players.
Listen, this is how its suppose to be, you don't like it, you bought the wrong game.

WoW did one big mistake, they surrendered to all the whining, and that made the game worse, not better.

 

[Hexcaliber]

While you make some good points you are forgetting new players, I keep harping on about this but every game needs new players and Elite Dangerous more so because it's an evolving game. As it stands new players will quit playing inside a week

Many new players have struggled through their first weeks of this game, engineers update or no, so its rather a moot argument. However, hearing complaint's about new players I went and grabbed an eagle and got on perfectly well, sure I know the game and practiced FA off for enough hours that I can now use it effectively, but I can do nothing about that. New players need to temper expectations with common sense, if they go and grab a mission paying out 100k or more they should do so knowing that it will be bloody hard to complete in lower level ships. The same is true of newer players entering higher level res sites, and USS with high threat levels.

 

[Moonax IRL]

Yes the AI combat was rubbish - the AI now are good, much improved. What I decry is the preponderance of engineered mods. 1.6 users can have no mods - full stop - therefore exposing them to AI with mods was a really crass decision by FD. Having AI fully equipped with modified weapons on launch when NO PLAYER has a chance of attaining any sort of compensating mods is a totally stupid implementation that basically tells the userbase - hey look what we did - HA HA ... At the very least they could have introduced modded AI over a period of time. Originally the mods were supposed to be very rare, whining by people in beta that wanted to have the super-powered stuff they got for fish meant F D caved in and basically opened Pandora's Box.

No it wasn`t a crass decision, its called game developement. Do you work for nothing?, do you want the game to remain static for the next number of years because some people want to play the same game as everyone else while not paying for it. What utter horse****** to come out with.

 

[TiberiusKirk]

Cant find the official one from the programmer, but take a look at this... Then decide who needs to accept they are not always correct...

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=138536

But all of these tests are time dependent - for shields under attack. There is no denying there is a time element - of course there is, because the pips affect the recharge time of a capacitor (sic) that must have some energy content for repair.

But constantly repairing something does not make it stronger!

 

[lysan]

While you make some good points you are forgetting new players, I keep harping on about this but every game needs new players and Elite Dangerous more so because it's an evolving game. As it stands new players will quit playing inside a week

Rubbish, there are actually people out there who do like a challenge, games like DayZ, arma, dark souls etc. do have a player base, we can't all play in sleep mode.

 

[Chummy62]

Elite Dangerous should have been a game that changed the world. It should be right up there with World of Warcraft, Minecraft, Tetris and Angry Birds. David and team are masters of procedural generation. Their track record clearly demonstrates their success in the gaming business. Where did Elite Dangerous go wrong. Simply put; too much focus was placed on PVP and space flight combat. Very soon, the folly of this narrow focus will be evident when Hello Games releases “No Man’s Sky”. Where Elite Dangerous has a lock on being an Eve clone with space combat that challenges high skilled pilots along with pretty planet rendering; No Man’s Sky will have playability within easy reach of most every computer and console game player. I wish Frontier Development could have seen the forest, but unfortunately all they could see were trees. I don’t see ED failing because the game fills a niche. There are also way to many PVP space fighter jocks who must find an outlet for demonstrating their prowess dominating other players. Bask in the glory that goes along with forcing the developers to adjust the AI difficulty beyond ludicrous levels for your own pleasure. You also need to quit complaining about not seeing other players in Open. All I can say is you got the game you wanted. Please understand that average players are not qualified to fly in F-16 fighter jets. We are going to play the games we can and enjoy playing. ED is your game now, make the best of it but please understand that it could have been so much better.

 

[Hexcaliber]

short version from hex - "you SHOULD have done all the stupid pointlessly dull srv and mining jobs but now you wont be able to haha.


feh.

By all means spend your time before a major release with your head in the sand, but don't be surprised when you get bit in the ass, and don't go crying after the event.

 

[sndle9]

But all of these tests are time dependent - for shields under attack. There is no denying there is a time element - of course there is, because the pips affect the recharge time of a capacitor (sic) that must have some energy content for repair.

But constantly repairing something does not make it stronger!

Damn, I really wish I could find the confirmation from the programmer that wrote the code. I guess I'll just have to accept that you will not listen and leave it at that.

 

[Cmdr Roma]

Many new players have struggled through their first weeks of this game, engineers update or no, so its rather a moot argument. However, hearing complaint's about new players I went and grabbed an eagle and got on perfectly well, sure I know the game and practiced FA off for enough hours that I can now use it effectively, but I can do nothing about that. New players need to temper expectations with common sense, if they go and grab a mission paying out 100k or more they should do so knowing that it will be bloody hard to complete in lower level ships. The same is true of newer players entering higher level res sites, and USS with high threat levels.

I am not a new player and I was doing a simple trade for the CG and I was interdicted 3 times on one run and was killed by a Clipper in 10 seconds the last time. I have been playing for a year and have an A Rated Asp yet my shields and hull were gone in 10 seconds (maybe 15) I couldn't jump away in time because of the mass disruption.

So your point about taking high risk missions isn't valid, it's not just those missions where these are happening. Granted I am in an Anarchy system and wouldn't be if I were a newbie but still the game HAS to be fun. And it's just not at the moment

 

[CMDR Sir Edison Trent]

I really hope that FD don't panders to the lowest common denominator, the game needed this, and has become a 100% better because of this.
The world need more challenges, not fewer. Everyone want instant satisfaction, if you can't shuffle a meal into your head in 5 sec. it "socks".

If you need to read a manual OMG, this SOCKS! It's the same in the DayZ community, the game has been doomed since 2012, however the devs there just explained the players.
Listen, this is how its suppose to be, you don't like it, you bought the wrong game.

WoW did one big mistake, they surrendered to all the whining, and that made the game worse, not better.

I still haven't played the update yet as idon;t get off shift until tomorrow morning, but money rules all, if they know they'll get more players balancing aspects, or as you call it dumbing down, of the game they will do it, as more players = more sales = more money.

If they managed to strike a balance and make a game for all then great, if they want to live off just the hardcore they should refund all those that have had their game, as how you play the game means naff all to them, changed so it is unplayable for them, and just get money off the remaining players to keep the game chugging along, how long do you think the game will last then?

WoW is a pile of      in my opinion, always has been even from the beginning, but there are people out there who love it and i can respect that they love it and even put up with them telling me about it, because i can appreciate people like to play different games different ways, this seems to be something half the player base on ED doesn't seem to get, which is sad really, not everyone wants a challanging mass murder space simulator.

Personally i'm looking forward to tyring this AI out, and i hope it helps me improve on my HOTAS as i now have a reason to learn the slide turns, flying with FA off etc, will be good fun.