Discuss the AI here!

[CMDR Sir Edison Trent]

Wow, it's great of you to take your weekend time out to post a response.

Seems like you are an awesome AI programmer, just please if cyberdyne industries try to recruit you make them go easy on humans in ral life

Have a great Weekend!

 

[TiberiusKirk]

They have never said it would be an end to bugs, that's just asinine.

Not asinine; because you deliberately misquoted me: I was careful to write 'widespread' bugs - not 'bugs' - because a complete absence of that would be unreasonable.

So it is your comment above, some would argue, that was asinine.

 

[Kapow]

Honestly. I'm shocked by the number of people classing the AI as too hard. It is finally improved and providing at least some level of challenge. This is what the word Dangerous stand for.

For reference: I fly FAS or my "trade" multi role Cutter ( my load out on the cutter is seriously not combat ready) and both ships work for their role, but both are now fun to play for as they provide enough challenge. Solo is no longer the place of Super easy mode which should make the Solo players delighted as they actually have some level of challenge and those who fly in Open get at least a small taster of what player might act like if they meet medium to low skilled players, so at least they can actually train for real encounters and be at least slightly ready for real encounter if it comes.

Overall I would say that the AI improvements are definately one of the big highlights of the superb work on ED 2.1.

I've been known to be super critical (at times even harsh) towards Frontier, but since the update I'm having a genuine fun in 2.1 and it shows the massive promise this game has once again

Massive well done to Frontier and Please please Please do not nerf the AI. If anything buff the Highest ranks a bit more to give a chance to train further for random PVP encounters (I'm not a PVP player, but I did have some encounters in Open which is the mode I play in and AI provided 0 training for my encounters which made them very painful to begin with. I wish the AI was at least on this level when I started playing as it would make winging up fun and provide reason for social play, as well as prepare me for real Commanders trying to blow me into a space dust, which just wasn't the case back in 1.4)

 

[Vorxian]

It's important to find what the root cause of people finding the NPCs too difficult is, i.e. is it:

a). Actually the AI itself being too good
b). The weaponry the NPCs using being too good
c). Players not adjusting their play-style to the new patch
d). Players having not yet upgraded their ships to match the enhanced NPC ships

Could be a combination of all of the above, of course, but if, for instance, it's more to do with the new weapons, then that might indicate what to [potentially] hit with the nerf bat...

Most often than not A+B

 

[Flokie100]

Seeing all the negative posts following the 2.1 patch has got me somewhat hacked off thinking some players are missing the totally unique reason I play this game.

Even on the first wire frame versions you hit a dangerous area to try to make cash fast, often died, and more than once lost my ship and ended up back in a Sidewinder no credits and back at your start location, no cargo but kept my rep.

With this game has kept the essence of the original game, (which is why I never found another game I wanted to play like this one), insurance makes it a bit easier as you do not lose everything, (only your insurance costs, and bounties and exploration data you have not cashed in).

I hope to see less negative posts, play the game you want to, as a pirate, bounty hunter, trader, explorer or my way, little bit of everything but stop complaining and trying to get the game dumbed down.

(this may be a duplicate post, if it is sorry, mod closed my post to contain the subject)

 

[JuicerPrime]

Wow... what a lot to read!
The answer to the poll (in my eyes) is yes to all. Can it be changed to please everyone? Perhaps...

"It's too easy!"

Moving forward, it won't be. High ranks will use adaptive logic. Means the harder you fight, the harder the AI fights. Should hopefully mean a good challenge for skilled players.

"It's just right."

Perhaps, but I want to take it down a notch and throw in more tactics to create a more enjoyable and less predictable experience.

"It's too hard!"

I hear ya... Adaptive logic could dynamically downgrade AI performance to give players a chance. E.g. player is fleeing... Pirate AI could downgrade its weapon accuracy and boosting ability, giving the player a good chance to escape.

Well, just some of my thoughts.

Aieee! It's MoM! Run, before her creations descend from the bloated skies and harvest our organs for her terrible amusement!

Just kidding, thanks for killing that rotating bug for us [heart] How are the minions? Unquestioningly loyal, hateful and unrelenting as ever we hope? [up]

 

[Insane4un]

Wow... what a lot to read!
The answer to the poll (in my eyes) is yes to all. Can it be changed to please everyone? Perhaps...

"It's too easy!"

Moving forward, it won't be. High ranks will use adaptive logic. Means the harder you fight, the harder the AI fights. Should hopefully mean a good challenge for skilled players.

"It's just right."

Perhaps, but I want to take it down a notch and throw in more tactics to create a more enjoyable and less predictable experience.

"It's too hard!"

I hear ya... Adaptive logic could dynamically downgrade AI performance to give players a chance. E.g. player is fleeing... Pirate AI could downgrade its weapon accuracy and boosting ability, giving the player a good chance to escape.

Well, just some of my thoughts.

Ok, i already see.. nerf is incoming.. But I bet you.. please! Don't make it 300% time easyer. Please! It was my best times in Elite Dangerous just this few days.. I will missed that so much.. All of us. Just a bit.. Please, mom! Just a bit..

 

[Hexcaliber]

but you didnt quote the part about those with macs or on 1.6 who have no access to mods did you? people will draw their own conclusions from my whole post.

I addressed the nonsense at the start of your comment which is why the rest was removed. I do not play in 1.6 or on mac, so any comments about the difficulty there would be pure conjecture or hearsay.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

Wow... what a lot to read!
The answer to the poll (in my eyes) is yes to all. Can it be changed to please everyone? Perhaps...

"It's too easy!"

Moving forward, it won't be. High ranks will use adaptive logic. Means the harder you fight, the harder the AI fights. Should hopefully mean a good challenge for skilled players.

"It's just right."

Perhaps, but I want to take it down a notch and throw in more tactics to create a more enjoyable and less predictable experience.

"It's too hard!"

I hear ya... Adaptive logic could dynamically downgrade AI performance to give players a chance. E.g. player is fleeing... Pirate AI could downgrade its weapon accuracy and boosting ability, giving the player a good chance to escape.

Well, just some of my thoughts.

PLEASE dont think there is an AI problem yet. i have come to my own conclusion that some weapon mod bugs are causing npcs to have wildly overpowerful weapons. i got lucky with my encounter, others have lost lots. but the overpowered weapon issue is in my opinions overshadowing any and all attempt to establish how good the AI is. the other fights i had were with one exception a lot of fun - the exceptions to them were the master who nearly killed me in 40 seconds and a pirate who was hostile but circled me not firing at me who i destroyed for the bounty. i dont know his problem - maybe he was the late arriving wingman to the pirate i just killed. maybe he wouldnt fire unless he got behind me but he wasnt able to. but i really think if the instakill weapons mods werent there this thread may not even exist. we cant make objective judgments with the instakill weapons in the equation. i dont claim to speak for lots of people just myself.

 

[Para Handy]

..............

Well, just some of my thoughts.

How about some thoughts regarding extent and level of modified weaponry and systems in your minions? What about the 1.6 limited playerbase being exposed to that?

Been deathly silence on that from F D.

 

[Truesilver]

But all of these tests are time dependent - for shields under attack. There is no denying there is a time element - of course there is, because the pips affect the recharge time of a capacitor (sic) that must have some energy content for repair.

But constantly repairing something does not make it stronger!

Damn, I really wish I could find the confirmation from the programmer that wrote the code. I guess I'll just have to accept that you will not listen and leave it at that.

Hi TiberiusKirk and Sndle9,

I hope I can help with this discussion. There are three mechanics at play here:-

1. Shields recharge at the same rate of 1 Mj per second so long as the sys cap is not empty. This rate cannot be varied.

2. The sys cap drains by reason of shield recharge and use of utilities such as heat sinks. However, the drain is so low that 1 pip is under all normal conditions of use sufficient to offset it entirely.

3. Pips to sys change shield resistance to incoming damage as set out in Cmdr StarLightBreaker's thread linked to by Sndle9.

It is for reason (3) that since forever PvP-ers have routinely destroyed PvE-ers in shielded combat merely by using 4 pips to sys, which combined with FA-off and reversing considerably outweighs any attendant losses caused by lack of pips to eng and wep.

If you wish to see how PvP-ers of the highest order and experience use 4 pips to sys in practice you might for example watch the recent battle between Time of Chaos v Rebuy Screenius Maximus in Season 2 of the PvP League.

May your caps never drain,

Truesilver

 

[Hexcaliber]

Not asinine; because you deliberately misquoted me: I was careful to write 'widespread' bugs - not 'bugs' - because a complete absence of that would be unreasonable.

So it is your comment above, some would argue, that was asinine.

I did not have to misquote, they have never said the end of bugs, or even widespread bugs ever, no developer would, you are pulling that out of an orifice.

 

[Stardran]

I originally voted "Too Hard". I think that was a mistake. The problem is a bug with some really overpowered weapons on some of the AI ships that can go through shields and hull way too fast. Please find and fix that bug ASAP before making any other changes.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

It's important to find what the root cause of people finding the NPCs too difficult is, i.e. is it:

a). Actually the AI itself being too good
b). The weaponry the NPCs using being too good
c). Players not adjusting their play-style to the new patch
d). Players having not yet upgraded their ships to match the enhanced NPC ships

Could be a combination of all of the above, of course, but if, for instance, it's more to do with the new weapons, then that might indicate what to [potentially] hit with the nerf bat...

b) is i think the supermassive blackhole in the room at the moment. until we move away we get distortion of our view of the AI

 

[atlas974]

Vote just right, but FD need to be sure that some AI don't overuse experimental modifications on their weapons (like make a check that by random one weapon can't stack multiple modifications leading to some strange behavior seen in a YT video)

 

[Damaha]

Wow... what a lot to read!
The answer to the poll (in my eyes) is yes to all. Can it be changed to please everyone? Perhaps...

"It's too easy!"

Moving forward, it won't be. High ranks will use adaptive logic. Means the harder you fight, the harder the AI fights. Should hopefully mean a good challenge for skilled players.

"It's just right."

Perhaps, but I want to take it down a notch and throw in more tactics to create a more enjoyable and less predictable experience.

"It's too hard!"

I hear ya... Adaptive logic could dynamically downgrade AI performance to give players a chance. E.g. player is fleeing... Pirate AI could downgrade its weapon accuracy and boosting ability, giving the player a good chance to escape.

Well, just some of my thoughts.

Thank-you very much for taking the time to trawl through out rambling and ranting.

As someone who could have ticked all three boxes I appreciate all your comments.

Could I just say that it is not just about absolute level of difficulty, but how it relates to game-style.
I have been playing for 3 months or so and have been trying a little bit of everything.
As a bounty-hunter you have made the game a lot more fun and interesting. Thank you very much for all your efforts.
As a trader the game is now a truly miserable experience. Could you fix it please?

Cheers.

 

[Garik]

I've been avoiding playing because of the negative vibe about the AI but took the plunge just now. I'm in an A rated Vulture. I thought I'd start easy at a Nav beacon, plenty of cops around. I started off taking on Sidewinders, no problem so I went for a couple of wings of sidewinder/ adder types in pairs.....no problem. I then took on a wing 1xadder 1x clipper both dangerous. No problem.

I feel like a right smartalec so perhaps I need to try a rez or a haz rez? Maytbe my fighting style suits the new AI? They were perhaps a bit tougher but didn't seem to be by much.

Now I've oppened my mouth I'll probably get smashed to bits next time out.

 

[TiberiusKirk]

Ok, i already see.. nerf is incoming.. But I bet you.. please! Don't make it 300% time easyer. Please! It was my best times in Elite Dangerous just this few days.. I will missed that so much.. All of us. Just a bit.. Please, mom! Just a bit..

Why shouldn't it be nerfed if it isn't fun to play?

I think the term originates in the Nerf gun - my young son and I had a lot of fun with this. Massive sales you know, and at the age of 6 it's a little hard to justify buying a crossbow.

Either computer games are an entertainment, or they are some kind of hardcore activity. But there is nothing hardcore about sitting in your underpants, fanboys, going FA on and FA off - you guys could be snowboarding or cave diving. You could even organise meetings across the galaxy and blast the crap out of each other - why don't you just do that?

I played for a few hours today, and found it very disappointing.

At FD headquarters in Cambridge, there should be a massive sign on the wall, simply stating: IS IT FUN? I bet that is what their accountants & investors would like to see

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

I addressed the nonsense at the start of your comment which is why the rest was removed. I do not play in 1.6 or on mac, so any comments about the difficulty there would be pure conjecture or hearsay.

i can respect that.

 

[matthewpowers]

I have played this game for a couple of hundred hours. But I played since the beginning. Though I consider myself as a casual player.

I'm not even young anymore. early 40s . I'm pretty average at combat. Just have a thrustmaster T Hotas. and Edtracker, for headtracking. Nothing superfancy.

Just to give you an idea of my level.

I find the AI much harder, but most certainly not too hard. I had to adapt my play style, due to the new AI. But I have not been killed yet (which is good, because I play Iron man). I think most people complain about the new AI because they have been spoiled with the old easy AI. You know, with the FAS even an average player could kill the Elite anaconda/python/fdl within 30-45 seconds. This has now changed, and if players do not adapt their play style, they will suffer.

I certainly hope that frontier will not dumb down the game again, Because I think the new AI is a great improvement for the game, But, I think something should be done for the traders. Especially those who play solo. My suggestion would be to create a small protected zone within the bubble. This would keep everybody satisfied. Those who wanna trade while relaxing with some musc. And those who like a challenge, like myself.

New 2.1 has made me play the game more. Because it is just awesome!