The Star Citizen Thread v 4

[dsmart]

Just don't see this happening.

I get where you're coming from and why CIG might prefer to cancel it, but I think the impact of pulling Sq42 would be too huge for them to even consider it.

Either Sq42 arrives or it doesn't.

If it doesn't.. well it's not going to be pretty. Backers revolting, refunds being demanded and so on, if this happens as you suggest (and I don't think it will) then it will be a signal that things are in pretty dire straights, and a strong enough one for some folk to pull their money out.

If it does arrive it's either gonna be good, bad or mediocre. If any of the latter two again there's gonna be backlash as the cold hard reality of it all sinks in and a portion of the backers are brought back down to earth.

Regardless I think Sq42 is going to be telling either way, I mean it will be the first indicator of whether CIG can actually deliver a product or not, and if so of what quality.

I don't think anyone actually thinks it'll come in 2016 btw. (Except maybe CIG :|)

Are your 'sources' saying it's delayed?

I don't think they will cancel it; and I didn't say that they would. Neither Star Citizen, nor SQ42 are going to be "released" in 2016. That's a foregone conclusion.

The point I am making is that the whole thing will collapse before either one of these ever sees a full commercial "release". And croberts knows this; hence the whole Minimum Viable Product pitch he has already started preparing backers for.

 

[Soopyyy]

Notice how sources for claims are cited in Mr. Smarts posts?

Why isn't that the norm rather than the exception?

 

[proKar_garlic]

Yawn... Conjectures conjectures...

It's all doomed, , 90 days, the end, ftc, fbi yada yada yada lalala land....

Meanwhile in the real world...

Star Citizen still going strong, still receiving updates, still receiving backers support and being developed
Like any game it has it's ups and downs, it's hiccup's and roadblocks, but what game doesn't ? How many games get delayed? Released with bugs or game breaking problems?
So is the life of making a game. Hard work as some might know, or not.

 

[Zyll Goliat]

Yawn... Conjectures conjectures...

It's all doomed, , 90 days, the end, ftc, fbi yada yada yada lalala land....

Meanwhile in the real world...

Star Citizen still going strong, still receiving updates, still receiving backers support and being developed
Like any game it has it's ups and downs, it's hiccup's and roadblocks, but what game doesn't ? How many games get delayed? Released with bugs or game breaking problems?
So is the life of making a game. Hard work as some might know, or not.

What's "ups" in SC considering the game-play?Let me tell you something delay's will be tolerated if by now we have a game that promise FUN and focus towards better Flight mechanics and overall game-play experience but that's in my opinion not the case,I will not care at all about the bugs&glitches either if I have a feeling that I am driving a space-ship that have an actual mass not this"frankenstein"- monstrum reflex-twitch FPS rocket FEST what we have atm....by the way I just tried a "Fractured Space"free 2 play game that is in early access with waaaaaaaay lower budget then SC and I have equally waaaaaaay more FUN playing that game so far.

 

[lysan]

Read this post guys. Please, actually read it. There is absolutely no evidence provided, just as evidence is NEVER provided when Dsmart open his trap. You people that frequent this forum to laugh at SC are all frothing at the mouth for absolutely ANYthing you can get your grubby paws on that supports your SC hate train. Open your eyes. Dsmart said the same crap about ED before it came out, spouted just as much vitriol about David Braben. How convenient for him to now become a fan of the game and use its outspoken fanbase as nothing but sockpuppets for his newest FUD campaign. Don't let Dsmart stick his hand where the sun don't shine and use you people. Think for yourselves.

No hate really, its just when you read all the coming from CIG, you just can't keep a strait face. CIG are honestly saying that they are much better than anything else out there?
Really? where are the proof of that? They never made any game before, sure CR did a loooong time ago. However CIG as a company never did.

Fact:

Never hit any timeline or milestone
flipflopped on so many issues its hard to keep track of it.
Keep begging for money, despite they are well funded to complete the project.
mismanaging the finances given to the project by the players, illfonic is just one example.
15 companies involved in the SC project? smell of something fishy to me.

I hope they can pull if off, but they better deliver all that fidelity or it wont see much sun after release.

 

[swfanatic717]

Star Citizen still going strong, still receiving updates, still receiving backers support and being developed
Like any game it has it's ups and downs, it's hiccup's and roadblocks, but what game doesn't ? How many games get delayed? Released with bugs or game breaking problems?

I don't see how being and continuing work are mutually exclusive. Godus is still being worked on and receiving updates, with a supportive community behind it, but are you going to argue that the project isn't ?

Personally, I can't wait until CIG's 2014 UK finances become available, then we'll at last have a piece of objective, irrefutable evidence that describes in quantified terms at least part of the SC project's current status. Then instead of arguing whether CIG is going to go bankrupt in 90 days or whatever we'll be able to fight over whether the numbers describe all of CIG's health or if it's just strictly limited to the UK and that the rest of CIG is fine/dying.

 

[Electrofreak]

I don't think they will cancel it; and I didn't say that they would. Neither Star Citizen, nor SQ42 are going to be "released" in 2016. That's a foregone conclusion.

The point I am making is that the whole thing will collapse before either one of these ever sees a full commercial "release". And croberts knows this; hence the whole Minimum Viable Product pitch he has already started preparing backers for.

The only conclusion is that you've literally never been right in any of your predictions about Star Citizen. Why would anyone believe you now?

 

[K M Butler]

Didn't Brett C's post 15 or so back say something about being respectful?

 

[tooterfish]

The only conclusion is that you've literally never been right in any of your predictions about Star Citizen. Why would anyone believe you now?

Not true. Several of his predictions about personnel changes have turned out to be correct. He also correctly predicted that CiG wouldn't sue the Escapist...

Oh yeah, he told us about their $20,000 barista machine about 6 months before it was publicly revealed to anyone outside the company, so at least some of his sources are definitely insiders.

 

[Electrofreak]

Didn't Brett C's post 15 or so back say something about being respectful?

I have no intention of being disrespectful. It is a legitimate question. Derek Smart is claiming here that Star Citizen will fail. He has made the same prediction countless times before over the last several years, and yet the game continues to see active development.

I'd like him to address why this time his suggestion is any different. Or, if he'd rather challenge the allegation, he's welcome to cite specific examples where he has made such claims of failure and can provide evidence that he has been unconditionally correct. In typical fashion, he'll probably call me a "shill" or some such, and tell me to "Google it" or "read his blog". Or realistically, he will ignore this post entirely, because he doesn't have the proof to back up his statements.

I'm coming into this discussion as someone with a lot of time spent in both ED and Star Citizen. I enjoy both games for different reasons, and both are being developed in different manners. There are people who believe Frontier has failed to meet their obligations in respect to Elite, and those who believe that CIG has done the same with Star Citizen.

But most people who take a very one-sided stance in this kind of discussion do not and have not played both games extensively.

 

[Zyll Goliat]

Oh yeah for those who didn't hear yet Mark Skelton left CIG....one more of the key people leave...

 

[Electrofreak]

Not true. Several of his predictions about personnel changes have turned out to be correct. He also correctly predicted that CiG wouldn't sue the Escapist...

Oh yeah, he told us about their $20,000 barista machine about 6 months before it was publicly revealed to anyone outside the company, so at least some of his sources are definitely insiders.

Derek has made some "someone will leave the company soon" type of statements, which have "come true" X days later when an employee of the 300ish employed by CIG moves on to a new opportunity. Anyone can do that. Besides, it's not a prediction of failure, people come and go with some frequency in any business with hundreds of employees.

The Escapist has not issued another article on Star Citizen since that whole situation occurred. This is a strong indicator of legal activity or a C&D.

The barista machine wasn't a failure prediction. Besides, what company "publicly reveals" a barista machine? The old saying goes in development circles "Programmers are a means to turn caffeine into code". At the company I work for, an actual barista comes in every morning to make us drinks to order. Are the investors bent out of shape about it? Hell no. As a backer of Star Citizen do I care about an expensive coffee machine? Hell no. It'll pay for itself in productivity and employee morale. If you don't believe that, you've never worked in software development.

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Oh yeah for those who didn't hear yet Mark Skelton left CIG....one more of the key people leave...

Yeah, Mark Skelton, the guy whose daughter broke her back two months ago in an accident (and the SC community paid the medical bills for), and is still recovering.

Left because he was spending too much time flying to LA instead of spending time with his recovering kid and his family.

SMH... people who really want to see a conspiracy will see a conspiracy.

Really though, let's let Derek explain himself here. I'm interested in what he has to say.

 

[PiLhEaD]

What are these financial reports that CIG are supposed to be producing? What's the driver behind this?

As an aside I'll chip in that I really think the majority on this thread would be delighted to see SQ42 and SC delivered, I certainly do.

Whether they will or not, well no one truly knows, whichever side of the fence they are on. My feeling is it's unlikely we'll see anything this year, but I don't view that per se as a problem. What I think is a valid concern are the missed deadlines so far, but with Erin involved we can perhaps hope matters will improve.

As I've said before, there's a cracking dissertation waiting for someone wanting to review game development in comparing ED, NMS and SC, and arguably a decent MBA too.

 

[Zyll Goliat]

Derek has made some "someone will leave the company soon" type of statements, which have "come true" X days later when an employee of the 300ish employed by CIG moves on to a new opportunity. Anyone can do that. Besides, it's not a prediction of failure, people come and go with some frequency in any business with hundreds of employees.

The Escapist has not issued another article on Star Citizen since that whole situation occurred. This is a strong indicator of legal activity or a C&D.

The barista machine wasn't a failure prediction. Besides, what company "publicly reveals" a barista machine? The old saying goes in development circles "Programmers are a means to turn caffeine into code". At the company I work for, an actual barista comes in every morning to make us drinks to order. Are the investors bent out of shape about it? Hell no. As a backer of Star Citizen do I care about an expensive coffee machine? Hell no. It'll pay for itself in productivity. If you don't believe me, you've never worked in software development.

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Yeah, Mark Skelton, the guy whose daughter broke her back last year in an accident (and the SC community paid the medical bills for), and is still recovering.

Left because he was spending too much time flying to LA instead of spending time with his recovering kid and his family.

SMH... people who really want to see a conspiracy will see a conspiracy.

Really though, let's let Derek explain himself here. I'm interested in what he has to say.

What conspiracy?Man is leaving the sinking ship and he have a good reason for it....I wish all the best and full recovery to his daughter but the fact remains that he will join the rest of the important Ex-Employees who did the same before he did it:Eric"Wingman"Peterson,Robert"Vampire"Irving,Chris Olivia,Alex Mayberry...etc...plain&simple that can't be good for CIG future......

 

[Electrofreak]

What are these financial reports that CIG are supposed to be producing? What's the driver behind this?

The Star Citizen MMO release date has been pushed out twice now as every indication is that CIG is putting the brunt of their workforce behind completing Squadron 42 Episode 1 single-player campaign. The second due date for Star Citizen is May 31, 2016, in a few days. Obviously it is still far from complete. As a result, CIG will be required to revise the TOS for SC with a new delivery date.

UK law as it relates to crowdfunding changed last year I believe to require that a crowd-backed company release its financials within some time frame (18 months I think?) after missing an estimated delivery date. So I'm pretty sure that's where this is coming from.

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What conspiracy?Man is leaving the sinking ship and he have a good reason for it....I wish all the best and full recovery to his daughter but the fact remains that he will join the rest of the important Ex-Employees who did the same before he did it:Eric"Wingman"Peterson,Robert"Vampire"Irving,Chris Olivia,Alex Mayberry...etc...plain&simple that can't be good for CIG future......

Heh. You honestly believe that it had nothing to do with his daughter's serious injury 2 months ago and his work requiring him to spend weeks out of town. Then you go and cite a handful of names that have left the ~300-strong company in the last few years as if it's some sort of exodus.

Okay. :|

 

[Zyll Goliat]

The "Star Citizen" MMO release date has been pushed out twice now as every indication is that CIG is putting the brunt of their workforce behind completing Squadron 42 Episode 1. The second due date is May 31, 2016, in a few days. As a result, CIG will be required to revise the TOS for SC with a new delivery date.

UK law as it relates to crowdfunding changed last year I believe to require that a crowd-backed company release its financials within some time frame (18 months I think?) after missing an estimated delivery date. So I believe that's where this is coming from.

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Heh. You honestly believe that it had nothing to do with his daughter's serious injury 2 months ago and his work requiring him to spend weeks out of town.

Okay.

I think that I said above exactly this:"MAN IS LEAVING THE SINKING SHIP AND HE HAVE A GOOD REASON FOR IT"....I don't know what part you didn't get.....Sure he probably left CIG because of that horrible accident....And again that doesn't change the FACT that this is BAD for CIG future....

 

[PiLhEaD]

....UK law as it relates to crowdfunding changed last year I believe to require that a crowd-backed company release its financials within some time frame (18 months I think?) after missing an estimated delivery date. So I believe that's where this is coming from.

Ok, thanks for that. It'll be interesting to see how much they actually have to, or choose to, reveal, given they are spread over US, UK and Germany.

'Minimum Viable' springs to my mind.... ;-)

 

[Electrofreak]

I think that I said above exactly this:"MAN IS LEAVING THE SINKING SHIP AND HE HEAVE A GOOD REASON FOR IT"....I don't know what part you didn't get.....Sure he probably left CIG because of that horrible accident....And again that doesn't change the FACT that this is BAD for CIG future....

Damn, you're right. That world-wide shortage of Art Directors is going to hit them hard.

'Minimum Viable' springs to my mind.... ;-)

I'm triggered! lol

On a serious note, I'm just as interested. I know why Star Citizen is coming along so slowly (Chris Roberts wants nothing more than to prove critics wrong and release SQ42 in 2016) but this whole impression that CIG is going to release financials showing them out of money is pretty ridiculous. They have over a million rabid fans that have collectively spent over $114 million already and show no signs of stopping, and the CEO is a critically-acclaimed veteran game developer. It's not like he can't go get a loan or pick up some private investors if he absolutely had to, as was his original intent before people started making it rain dollar bills.

Regardless, it wouldn't hurt to know the details. The only issue is that every company has a couple financial skeletons in its closet (the company I work for made a whoopsie to the tune of 4 million bucks on a project I was on recently, and we're a Fortune 500), so inevitably if the financials are released, there will be something for Derek Smart to scream about, the real question will be whether it contains any legitimate and serious concerns.

 

[Zyll Goliat]

Damn, you're right. That world-wide shortage of Art Directors is going to hit them hard.

Well it' just might...ART was one of the rare things CIG was doing GOOD so far and Mark was very important part of it.......

 

[tooterfish]

Derek has made some "someone will leave the company soon" type of statements, which have "come true" X days later when an employee of the 300ish employed by CIG moves on to a new opportunity. Anyone can do that. Besides, it's not a prediction of failure, people come and go with some frequency in any business with hundreds of employees.

Your point was about accurate predictions, not whether the rate of personnel churn is natural or not. He gave us actual names before the fact.

The Escapist has not issued another article on Star Citizen since that whole situation occurred. This is a strong indicator of legal activity or a C&D.

Again, a completely irrelevant attempt to redirect the point.

CiG threatened to sue the Escapist if they didn't take the existing articles down, not if they wrote new ones. The Escapist articles stayed up, and CiG didn't sue.

The barista machine wasn't a failure prediction. Besides, what company "publicly reveals" a barista machine? The old saying goes in development circles "Programmers are a means to turn caffeine into code". At the company I work for, an actual barista comes in every morning to make us drinks to order. Are the investors bent out of shape about it? Hell no. As a backer of Star Citizen do I care about an expensive coffee machine? Hell no. It'll pay for itself in productivity and employee morale. If you don't believe that, you've never worked in software development.

And again, completely irrelevant to the point. The insider info Derek got wasn't that they had a coffee machine, it's that they specifically had a $20,000 one. And it turned out to be 100% accurate, months later it was revealed they had a expensive commercial grade barista machine that just happened to be worth almost exactly $20,000... (it was actually the company that supplied the machine that technically revealed it, on facebook IIRC).

He's made predictions and given insider info that turned out to be true, so what you said is wrong. Stop trying to poison the well by saying he's never made an accurate prediction.