The Star Citizen Thread v 4

[dsmart]

No Derek, most of us know the game is behind schedule, that there are problems and legitimate concerns.

But we can't have a meaningful discussion about it because <don't post insults> Learn how to have an objective conversation and you might actually find people willing to listen.

Coming from you, that's rich. I even chuckled at the absurdity.

 

[Electrofreak]

You proved me wrong how? Please explain. I'll wait. Right here.

Certainly. However I think you're behind on a few posts. The following posts of mine have yet to see any response from you:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=203785&p=3977013&viewfull=1#post3977013
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=203785&p=3977462&viewfull=1#post3977462
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=203785&p=3977496&viewfull=1#post3977496
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=203785&p=3977673&viewfull=1#post3977673
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=203785&p=3977728&viewfull=1#post3977728

Why don't you address those first, and we'll catch up. I would recommend following the moderator's requirement to keeping the subject specifically to Star Citizen, however.

 

[lysan]

I can help you with that. It has been changed THREE times. Each time was to add restrictions which favor CIG over backers.

1. added arbitration clause
2. extended the refunds & accountability period from 12 to 18 months after failing to deliver on Nov 2014

I have it all documented - with links and context - in a new post right here. Please bookmark.

In fact, in the past weeks, knowing that the Mar 31st deadline is looming, sources tell me that they are about to again update the ToS in order to take away even more rights from backers. In fact, that's precisely why I am now hearing that more resources have been allocated (taken off SQ42 btw) to making the PU 2.4x stable so that the public release can be used as a trojan horse for the ToS update.

Somehow, the evangelists are going to wave that one off.

Oh 3 times, that is a lot, well I guess that is pretty normal in the game industry? before SC I never paid much attention to them.

 

[Zyll Goliat]

LOL! yeah, he's amazing. I'm just shocked he's not banned yet.

Oh no Derek CIG inquisition will not going to banned you for this,no,no,this will be to easy,instead they will let the higher ranking "cultist" to throw the stones first at you until you get tired then the rest of them will set you on fire and burn you alive...You should know this by now...

 

[lysan]

Quoted for posterity as stated by one of the guys who is the glaring example of why Star Citizen is regarded as a "toxic" community, and who spends every post everywhere (including on a hate-Red) using me as an excuse to ignore talking about the game he's not playing.

Carry on.

ps: Mods!! Please observe.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -



Actually you got that the other way around. See both of my posts about it.

I'm right.

He's wrong (as usual)

The Grey area is semantics.

I'm confused LOL

 

[dsmart]

Over a million fans on a project behind schedule. Yes, there will be many that are unhappy. That doesn't mean the project is doomed to failure.

That's false. You know it. We know it. CIG knows that we know it.

Last time we ran the numbers - and going by inside source confirmation - there were less than 400K unique "backers" of the project.

 

[Electrofreak]

If I had the faintest idea what Item system 2.0 was I could probably answer that question.

Are you deliberately trying to expose my complete and comprehensive lack of knowledge of both SC and game development in general?

Coz if you are - that's just like totally not fair.

Sorry about that.

If you need me to explain anything further just ask.

The TL;DR is that they can't do Thing A until Thing B is done. Creating Physics model for people and things inside of ships? Check. Communicating all that crap across the internets without something going wrong... not-check.

CryEngine comes with a lot of built-in stuff which is great if you're making a typical game, but not-so-great if you're not making a typical game.

That's false. You know it. We know it. CIG knows that we know it.

Last time we ran the numbers - and going by inside source confirmation - there were less than 400K unique "backers" of the project.

I'll keep saying it until I'm blue in the face.

PROOF?

All you ever do is cite inside sources. For all know, your inside source is your dog.

And I mean, if that was the case, it would certainly explain the >2-dozen failed predictions you've made about Star Citizen thus far, based upon "inside sources". Nobody here in this thread cares about your inside sources, and maybe only a couple actually believe you have any. You're going to need to provide more than that.

 

[Taren Reichhardt]

I think the problem is, "persistence" sounds quite complicated and brings up the images of being able to leave a ship somewhere in space and to return to it few hours later and so on, while it's mainly saving the character state, which should be done far, far earlier in the development timeline. It sounds important, but I think the more fitting word is 'basic'. To compare it to ED, persistence offered by 2.4 is related to cash balance, rank, inventory and current ship loadout. The more impressive part of persistence would be comparable to ED's background simulation (markets and factions). I seem to remember some promises of realistic industrial simulation (mining of materials, which are then processed and used to build ships) and multitude of NPCs with their own lives. Now that would be impressive.

It is indeed a very bare bones system at the moment, no doubt about it, doing this in a universe with seamless transition of character to ship, with localized physics grids and across maps that are several thousands of kilometer in size is not a small feat.

Quite exciting to see a game shaping up.

 

[proKar_garlic]

Oh no Derek CIG inquisition will not going to banned you for this,no,no,this will be to easy,instead they will let the higher ranking "cultist" to throw the stones first at you until you get tired then the rest of them will set you on fire and burn you alive...You should know this by now...

That looks familiar ...

 

[VidarSnipes]

At this stage I'm not sure "impressive" would cover the scope of CR's claims in regard to what he would have liked to include.

I'm just offering the comparison between something that is, to me, a basic functionality, and a notable feature, while putting 2.4 in the first category. If I had to highlight every single part of CIG's development I consider kinda dodgy, I would spend way too much time on the topic.

Edit: I still miss the times when this thread wasn't about Mr. Smart and his gaggle of 'fans' creating new accounts on random forums just to argue with him.

 

[AguilaBDN]

...or that the fps in Star Marine would be better than Call Of Duty.

That was five months ago.

With the 2.4 update, here is a 5v5 gameplay "attempt". Five years, $114 million later.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTL4CBHTbvI

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! How can anyone on their perfect mind DEFEND THAT?!?!?!

THAT'S BROKEN EVEN FOR TECH DEMO STANDARDS!

 

[lysan]

Well im not joking, it's the current state of your baby project am I right? Almost $20 million spent, 12 years and 18 dev's and nothing to show for it, not even ONE gameplay highlight resembling a fun time.

What have you been doing all this time Tweeting?
Ah wait...

Please don't drag another game debate in here, we discuss SC and not LoD, I don't know the game but I honestly would like to try it, and see how it is. I got enough in Elite but there is always room for one more.

 

[Taren Reichhardt]

That's false. You know it. We know it. CIG knows that we know it.

Last time we ran the numbers - and going by inside source confirmation - there were less than 400K unique "backers" of the project.

That is why I have a problem with your statements. Claims about the Star Citizen development are made. Talk about sources, but no hard evidence.

Instead it looks to me like a string of logical fallacies, like

Ad hominem

Appeal to Authority

Special Pleading

Inconsistency

Non sequitur

Half Truth

and

Weasel Words.

 

[Zyll Goliat]

I got enough in Elite but there is always room for one more.

Ok then.../Off topic/ if you didn't tried yet may I suggest you Fractured Space Sir......http://store.steampowered.com/app/310380/
Still early access 100% Free2play..I tried just for few h...and it was 99% pure fan........

 

[ianw]

Sorry about that.

If you need me to explain anything further just ask.

The TL;DR is that they can't do Thing A until Thing B is done. Creating Physics model for people and things inside of ships? Check. Communicating all that crap across the internets without something going wrong... not-check.

CryEngine comes with a lot of built-in stuff which is great if you're making a typical game, but not-so-great if you're not making a typical game.

Nice return!

It just seems very broken in so many ways - maybe the engine just can't do what they're trying to make it do?

 

[lysan]

Pledging a kickstarter it's not a signing a contract with a stipulated time. It's backing an idea subject to change. Avoid being Poppy Cutters.

And then I asked for a refund, got all my $3000 back , hasta la vista baby.

 

[dsmart]

So if by Chris Roberts standards you mean broken, half thought out and junk, then ya Illfonic showcasing a working viable FPS would not live up to that standard. The reality is that CR and CIG are known for rushing out broken incomplete junk that is bug filled mess. That is CIG's history, this is the company that took a FPS engine and made it so that it sucked at being a FPS.

As I have posted before, Illfonic showed a working FPS, with working FPS mechanics and working animations, deploy able items, cover system. CIG took that working components and broken them so hard that 1.5 years latter they are still not in the game. And what is in the game is junk.

While some of the stuff in the reports show up in one form or the other, they are never working as well as they claimed in reports, and there are tons of stuff that never see the light of day.

And just months ago, during CitizenCon 2015, they showed yet another Star Marine trailer.

June 15, 2015

[video=youtube;G97XDYilCfc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G97XDYilCfc[/video]

Aug 7, 2015

[video=youtube;u08-SWS01iY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u08-SWS01iY[/video]

Oct 10, 2015 // CitizenCon trailer

[video=youtube;prvRe1xjtN8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prvRe1xjtN8[/video]

Oct 17, 2015 // Gold Horizons PTU 1.3 play through

[video=youtube;X0oy7BIQSbI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0oy7BIQSbI[/video]

 

[bitstorm]

Well those of us who support CIG and SC as a product have two options:

1) Let Derek Smart and his Goons drive a wedge between the ED and the SC communities by spreading misinformation and FUD

2) Call him out

Because Derek isn't going to stop. Look at his Twitter stream for the last year. If he spent as much time working on his own game as he does posting Star Citizen hate, it would be done by now.

Well I spose the third option would be just to not to worry about it because it's not important.

I mean it's not like Derek Smart is going to halt the project is it.

Ultimately you bought a computer game, that's about it really.

 

[Electrofreak]

Nice return!

It just seems very broken in so many ways - maybe the engine just can't do what they're trying to make it do?

So to be perfectly honest, some of the developers that have left the company seem to say that the engine just isn't everything it needs to be.

Some people say they should have gone with UT4, but it came out in May 2012, after CIG had apparently already decided upon and started working with CryEngine to build the prototype for the Kickstarter pitch.

So CIG has actually hired a bunch of former CryEngine engineers, some of the original guys who built CryEngine and updated it over the years. Those guys are in Frankfurt Germany, and they're tearing out a lot of the CryEngine code and writing in their own. Apparently they've started calling it "StarEngine".

 

[ianw]

That is why I have a problem with your statements. Claims about the Star Citizen development are made. Talk about sources, but no hard evidence.

Instead it looks to me like a string of logical fallacies, like

Ad hominem

Appeal to Authority

Special Pleading

Inconsistency

Non sequitur

Half Truth

and

Weasel Words.

Well to be fair you just described pretty much every communication from CIG.

Forget about the bogeyman for a moment if you can.

We've all seen all the stuff they've talked about and then gone back on, changed, kicked into the long grass or just never mentioned again.

The fact is we can can all see the state of SC at the moment - the thing that exists.

The rest is just stretch goals and general at this point in time.