Does FD really think this is "healthy" balance?

Ziggy Stardust

Ziggy Stardust
Dave1029 said:
Currently on a 30 jump journey to the community goal... Cause balance or something. It's not enough fighters have no internals. Can I please put my 400 ton FDL into my 452 ton cargo hold of my Conda and use it? My Conda fully laden can go further than a fully stripped FDL. This isn't fun.
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This is actually a perfect example of balance or something.

You have to make the decision. Will I take my all-combat purpose ship, which means I get to kick more butt, but longer travel times. Or will I outfit my Conda for battle, which means a little less butt kicking but shorter travel times. You have to actually make a decision that has consequences attached to it. Balance one factor to the other and decide which one tips the scale for you.
Sandro Sammarco said:
In addition, season 2 will hopefully see the introduction of ship transportation, allowing Commanders to have vessels transported to their current location. This should further help Commanders fly the ship they want to fly, at the location they want to be at.
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Or have it magically transported of course.
 
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Unfluffydave

U
Cmnd Fulsom said:
Yes, thing like, being able to reach your destination a little faster. Except, oh, wait, that's right, it's not balanced, it's just stupid and annoying. Frankly, the real solution to this problem is not to allow you to sink hundreds of millions of credits into a 'conda to move your FDL around the galaxy, it's to increase combat ship's range to something more reasonable.




This is, of course, the reasonable solution, want to use you're expensive milspec ship? Naaaa, just go buy a new one, that is clearly the appropriate thing to encourage people to do, and totally a reasonable decision for people to reach. Christ, the future must be even more rampantly consumerist than we are, no wonder we expanded into space, there's no way Earth could even come close to that level of excess and wastefulness.

Also, and this is just- you know, a news flash. Some people don't play this game as their second job, and therefore can't afford to have an FDL in every port, or indeed, even one FDL. Also, for those who went though all the leg work to buy a corvett, the grinding for rank, the grinding for money to buy and equip it for combat all for a ship that... just absolutely limps along when kitted out and... maybe outperforms a 'conda maybe in the role it is nominally meant for. What do you suggest, spend another 200+ K to buy and fit another one if you want to actually ever do anything with that ship you worked so hard for?
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Since you like real world references that don't really apply to a fantastical world how about this one: You are basically asking someone to not hold an event somewhere because YOU can't get there on one tank of petrol. How would that work out for you in the real world?
 

Starbreaker

Starbreaker
I'm ok with jumprange being part of the ship balance equation, but in the interest of timesaving and less boredom as pointed out by Viking84 I would very much like to see the upper and lower ends of maximum engineered jumpranges compressed as a compromise. Some place between 20-40 ly range between the lowest and highest instead of 15-50. Unfortunately for me I am pro Federation and love the Core Dynamics line so you can see why I ask for this, but I'll live with it even if no changes are made.
 

xondk

X
Dave1029 said:
Currently on a 30 jump journey to the community goal... Cause balance or something. It's not enough fighters have no internals. Can I please put my 400 ton FDL into my 452 ton cargo hold of my Conda and use it? My Conda fully laden can go further than a fully stripped FDL. This isn't fun.
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I want to point out you likely can get there faster yourself by manually pathing, the problem is it tries to path a 'direct' way, where you could maybe manually fly in a V that would end up a lot faster then the spiral of 'direct' routes.
 

Eymerich

E
Sandro Sammarco said:
Hello Commanders!

The Fer-de-Lance is a prestige warship. With exceptional speed and firepower, it can generally dictate terms of combat better than any other ship. It has a specially constructed hull that is inherently more resistant to smaller weapons than any other ship and it's the fastest, most manoeuvrable ship to mount a huge weapon hardpoint. Fully kitted out and in the hands of a skilled pilot, there's no single adversary that can't be overcome.

In short, it's an unqualified combat monster.

Clearly, it's a heavily specialised vessel, and specialisation within a role comes at a cost - a poor jump range that prohibits useful exploration and limited storage that makes it a poor trader.

Travel distance is a factor that we don't want to ignore when developing ships; we think it's a valid part of the equation when looking at ship balance and differentiation.

In addition, season 2 will hopefully see the introduction of ship transportation, allowing Commanders to have vessels transported to their current location. This should further help Commanders fly the ship they want to fly, at the location they want to be at.
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Hi Cmndr Sandro,

Thanks for your post and for the info given.

However, I still have trouble to understand why Fsd should be a balance factor.

FDL, as you have said, it's an interceptor-fighter class and I am doubtfull it can be used for any different roles.

That's in my opinion is a great balance per se.

On the other hand, the limited Fsd range makes the ship a bit annoying: consider that as modded A++ ship I got only 14.92 ly, which is very limited as range, in the bubble...
 

Jabezz

J
Dave1029 said:
I found that the Conda outperforms the FDL in combat by a large magnitude.

Edit: what it lacks in mobility it makes up for in raw firepower. FAS's took FOREVER to kill.
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Not anymore! The days of shooting the NPC fish in a barrel with a Conda are over.
 

thorn-

thorn-
Eymerich said:
On the other hand, the limited Fsd range makes the ship a bit annoying: consider that as modded A++ ship I got only 14.92 ly, which is very limited as range, in the bubble...
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I regularly fly around the bubble in an FAS with a FSD range less than 14 LY. So far, I'm still getting to the systems I'm choosing to visit.
 

Andrej

Andrej
I am pretty much OK with FDL jump range, but what i'm really want, is a bigger fuel tank. As a mercenary/bounty hunter prize ship it should be an opportunist ship, right? I mean, when i hear a rumor about some notorious criminal with big taste bounty, or mercenary contract, i should be able to get there in reasonable amount of time, right? How i can do it if combat fitted FDL will run out of fuel after only 3 jumps?
 

Minoo Minou

Minoo Minou
Andrej said:
I am pretty much OK with FDL jump range, but what i'm really want, is a bigger fuel tank. As a mercenary/bounty hunter prize ship it should be an opportunist ship, right? I mean, when i hear a rumor about some notorious criminal with big taste bounty, or mercenary contract, i should be able to get there in reasonable amount of time, right? How i can do it if combat fitted FDL will run out of fuel after only 3 jumps?
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Fuel scoop?
 

Vasious

Vasious
Andrej said:
Are you never encounter on route 3 unscoopable star? Especially when yours total range (with full fuel tank) about 35 LY? Even sidewinder can travel further.
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Economic setting to cross?
Plan your route with the star filters.

Sidewinder can make 2 max range jumps which is about 15 light years per jump combat laden so no even a sidewinder cannot go further
 

Andrej

Andrej

Vasious

Vasious
Andrej said:
In center of Milky Way perhaps, in the bubble? Don`t think so.

And about sidewinder, even with such ridiculous fitting like this http://coriolis.io/outfit/sidewinder/22A2A2A1D1A1D1C18180404p5272525.Iw1-EA==.Aw1-EA== it still can make 30.63 LY
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I just flew a Sidewinder from Maia to Deciat on Economic, crossed the Brown Dwarf layer fine on Economic as remember fuel usage is not linear so you get many many more jumps at the short ranges. If you want to go faster, use fastest route until you reach it, then switch, cross it then switch again.
Plot you journey to cross it, dont plot through it diagonally, or if you are close to it, watch the route planner does not plot you through it horizontally.

By Brown dwarf belt I mean that thick layer, to see go to galaxy map and turn on star type filter, set to the unscoopables that pan the map up and down, and you will see the number of unscoopable has a thick band between Sol and Archenar. That is what you need to cross in Economic when you have small fuel tanks, and that is what you don't want the route planner ploting long traverses of


As for Coriolis' 30.63 ly range
Fuel Tank 2 tons
A rated FSD max fuel usage per jump 0.9 tons

2/0.9 = 2 jumps with 0.2 tons left over, not the 3 displayed

Coriolis is giving that ship 2.45 jumps at max range, which the fuel tank will not allow on fastest
 
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Bzek

B
Eymerich said:
However, I still have trouble to understand why Fsd should be a balance factor.
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I actually kinda like this, however inconvenient it is. As an example, I normally hunt on my FDL too. However, since I got a new friend in the game, I had to travel roughly ~250ly to get to him from my home system to help him hunt some pirates to give him some starting funds. Rather than bore myself to death with the trip, I used my Viper MkIV which is billed as a long-range fighter.

In other words, it gave the Viper MkIV (and other ships) a reason to be beyond the point where you have the FDL.

I actually find it interesting to have to make those compromises rather than finding a silver-bullet craft that does it all without a flaw.

Plus, once ship transportation is in the game it becomes a non-issue anyway.
 

Andrej

Andrej
Vasious said:
I just flew a Sidewinder from Maia to Deciat on Economic, crossed the Brown Dwarf layer fine on Economic as remember fuel usage is not linear so you get many many more jumps at the short ranges. If you want to go faster, use fastest route until you reach it, then switch, cross it then switch again.
Plot you journey to cross it, dont plot through it diagonally, or if you are close to it, watch the route planner does not plot you through it horizontally.

By Brown dwarf belt I mean that thick layer, to see go to galaxy map and turn on star type filter, set to the unscoopables that pan the map up and down, and you will see the number of unscoopable has a thick band between Sol and Archenar. That is what you need to cross in Economic when you have small fuel tanks, and that is what you don't want the route planner ploting long traverses of


As for Coriolis' 30.63 ly range
Fuel Tank 2 tons
A rated FSD max fuel usage per jump 0.9 tons

2/0.9 = 2 jumps with 0.2 tons left over, not the 3 displayed

Coriolis is giving that ship 2.45 jumps at max range, which the fuel tank will not allow on fastest
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Perhaps, but it irrelevant to this tread, it about FDL. And, in my opinion, FDL must have bigger fuel tank, of course you free to disagree with it ;)
 

lysan

lysan
Dave1029 said:
Currently on a 30 jump journey to the community goal... Cause balance or something. It's not enough fighters have no internals. Can I please put my 400 ton FDL into my 452 ton cargo hold of my Conda and use it? My Conda fully laden can go further than a fully stripped FDL. This isn't fun.
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[video=youtube;7qnd-hdmgfk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qnd-hdmgfk[/video]

No space for it, not even the sidewinder can fit in there.
 
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