Discuss the AI here!

[El Dragoon!]

it hink the ai is the a big fat 0, because thats what shape you seem to be flying in every fight your in , new players have no chance now because the ai is too pro and there noobs even the harmless ships fly like pros,    

 

[frostypaw]

There's definitely some truth to this.

There ought to be places where the super-geared players can find a challenge (think boss type NPCs) without making every single fight extremely frustrating for newer players, or simply not worth the time to engage for average players.

Those are HazRES's and combat zones.

NPCs are presented to players based upon the player's rank and any mission modifiers or PP influences. So a low ranked pilot who's not accepted any silly mission and is just doing his thing shouldn't be getting much threat

Bugs aside most of the folk complaining don't talk about their rank or numbers of bounties out on them or owt, so we don't really know why they're getting it so rough. Many others are just fine.

 

[Noddie]

A few folk might need their criminal records wiped too, but I think that's what the reset save button is for

Hold up. That's not fair. They played the game as it was at the time. Now the rules have changes significantly - for the better, I think, and they're suffering for their previous behaviour.

They just need to behave themselves for a bit.

My understanding is that the game is supposed to adapt to your skill level. If that's based on combat rank, then a lot of people have combat ranks far in excess of what they have, due to the old AI being very different from this AI. They're now suffering as a result of having spent ages farming bounties and rank in Haz Res that were never that Haz to begin with. Now, they're positively terrifying if you don't know what you're doing, or make yourself a target.

Oh. And, yes, if you overreach yourself you can end up in deep trouble. It's up to you to decide whether you have the skill & equipment for the mission - all the mission giver cares about is whether you have the cargo space! Some people perhaps haven't noticed this, and taken on Missions that are too challenging for their experience level and ship.

 

[aSkippingDimwit]

I think if a CORVETTE that has A7 Shield is being hit by an AI Eagle should take about 15 minutes before the shields are gone... and if it was another CORVETTE I would get a 30 second period before ALL shields are gone... feel like there is NO WAY an EAGLE should be able to take out a CORVETTE so easily... just sayin.

 

[frostypaw]

Hold up. That's not fair. They played the game as it was at the time. Now the rules have changes significantly - for the better, I think, and they're suffering for their previous behaviour.

They just need to behave themselves for a bit.

My understanding is that the game is supposed to adapt to your skill level. If that's based on combat rank, then a lot of people have combat ranks far in excess of what they have, due to the old AI being very different from this AI. They're now suffering as a result of having spent ages farming bounties and rank in Haz Res that were never that Haz to begin with. Now, they're positively terrifying if you don't know what you're doing, or make yourself a target.

Oh. And, yes, if you overreach yourself you can end up in deep trouble.

It'd be interesting to know what the mechanism for that is - there should always be ways of digging yourself out of the hole.

The last sentence of your post should be on the box, in larger text than "just kill other commanders".

 

[Crazy Jedi]

WELP... I just flew into a Threat 2 USS (distress call) and I got to experience the AI bug. three ships half the size of my vulture had an insane rate of rife for their weapons and dropped my shield boosted shields in a matter of seconds. I barely managed to escape with 33% hull and having to do a reboot/repair to get my thrusters back online. SOMEHOW I survived because I lost thrusters while going at my maximum velocity. They went back for their prey while I drifted off into space.

Any word on a fix for this? And what about the community goal? I was trying to participate in it, but that's not really working in this circumstance with this bug.

It appears that this update has really badly messed up. This has had a seriously disruptive effect on most people's game. Not at all good.
Not sure what FD were thinking on this one.
improved npc AI = yes please
improved textures = yes please.
i like the idea of modding modules BUT equipping every npc with modded uber weapons and having them all top skill level almost every time is killing it. Who thought that one up? This needs sorting out asap we are trying to have fun here!

 

[Zeta Legion]

Those are HazRES's and combat zones.

NPCs are presented to players based upon the player's rank and any mission modifiers or PP influences. So a low ranked pilot who's not accepted any silly mission and is just doing his thing shouldn't be getting much threat

Bugs aside most of the folk complaining don't talk about their rank or numbers of bounties out on them or owt, so we don't really know why they're getting it so rough. Many others are just fine.

Possible bugs or Engineer upgrades severely muddy the AI challenge waters unfortunately, to the point where it's hard to pinpoint exactly what issues a player is having.
NPC Vipers constantly out-maneuvering your Vulture? Is it the AI being masters of the universe at thruster control, or do they have upgraded drives?
Get wasted in three seconds in your A-rated Anaconda by a Dropship? Is it the rapid fire glitch? Or seriously juiced-up weapons?

I will say that combat for 'average' players not flying fully A-rated combat vessels that aren't simply relying on the security ships to fight for them are going to have a rough time.

 

[mitech616]

The AI was too easy. I'll certainly agree to that. However, they have certainly overcompensated! I should not be outmaneuvered by Adders and Asps in my x-rated Vulture. I don't mind some challenge. In fact, I welcome it! But this is utter nonsense. Ships can just turn on a dime and no matter what you do, even in the most agile ships, you're out flown.

And before you start with the "learn to fly", it has nothing to do with that. I've made optimal maneuvers using various power pip and thruster power levels, and it's simply a fact that many of these ships have unreasonable capabilities for their design. I know some of it is based on rank, but a deadly or dangerous Adder should still not be such a perfect opponent for a good pilot in a heavy fighter.

 

[frostypaw]

I will say that combat for 'average' players not flying fully A-rated combat vessels that aren't simply relying on the security ships to fight for them are going to have a rough time.

If they're average ranked they should be meeting 'average' opponents - and should be able to hack it and that is going to have to mean learning when to run when you're outmatched. I'm not sure anyone ever really had to do that before

 

[Mr T]

Hold up. That's not fair. They played the game as it was at the time. Now the rules have changes significantly - for the better, I think, and they're suffering for their previous behaviour.

I think this statement sums it up. It's the dramatic change to the AI that combat novices (like me) are objecting to. If it was a gradual change it wouldn't seem so bad although I'm not sure how that could be implemented. I "made the mistake" of shooting down NPCs before the update so my combat ranking is now NOVICE. It now doesn't take long before I get slaughtered if I submit to an interdiction. If I manage to jump away the same NPC will interdict me over again. The only way out of the loop seems to be either to win the minigame or jump out to another system. I don't know if this is a bug or purposeful behaviour.

 

[Zeta Legion]

If they're average ranked they should be meeting 'average' opponents - and should be able to hack it and that is going to have to mean learning when to run when you're outmatched. I'm not sure anyone ever really had to do that before

Should every fight be so life-or-death such that if you don't have an A-rated combat ship you're just SOL though? Because it sounds like that's what the game has become for many players.

 

[mitech616]

If they're average ranked they should be meeting 'average' opponents - and should be able to hack it and that is going to have to mean learning when to run when you're outmatched. I'm not sure anyone ever really had to do that before

Part of the problem is that you CAN'T run. You can't escape. You're typically dead before you even get close to jumping out. And forget about tying to outmaneuver them or something. I don't think people have a problem with running. I think they have a problem with the execution-style interdictions they're getting. And the frequency they're happening with.

 

[Noddie]

I find on the second or third interdiction they seem to leave me alone (they certainly do if you kill them). Also, don't forget you an avoid the interdiction altogether with some clever flying in supercruise. If you escape into supercruise and just accelerate away in a straight line, you're pointing your thrusters at them and - remember this - they can ONLY interdict you from quite a narrow cone behind your ship. Some tight turns and loops may shake them, or at least buy time for shields to regenerate. I'm allied in Alliance and Federation space right now. I barely have to worry about non-bugged NPCs as the police show up fast, and mob-handed. Think about that. When in Supercruise, keep an eye on who's around you and particularly on who's sneaking up behind you. Personally I don't like the sudden slow-down caused by approaching a planet (and people catch up at this point), so I invariably aim off-center of the planet and turn sharply towards the station to slow down and not offer my rear aspect to any pursuers. Auto-throttle in very convenient, but it's not always helpful when trying to avoid interdictors..........


Full disclosure. I straight-up suck at combat and have always avoided it where possible. Perhaps hence why i'm not getting too badly beaten up right now?

 

[JuicerPrime]

Bugs aside most of the folk complaining don't talk about their rank or numbers of bounties out on them or owt, so we don't really know why they're getting it so rough. Many others are just fine.

Well, I can give you mine - Novice (restart, natch) and no bounties, and the interdiction that sticks in my mind was the Dangerous Viper III that jumped on me in Purut during a 55k credit Penniless-grade cargo mission. I submitted to interdiction and jumped out immediately, but his railguns still took a ring off my Viper IV's A-rated shields before the drive finished charging. If I'd been a newbie in a Sidewinder that would probably have been a death sentence. Heck of an encounter for an entry-grade cargo run [weird]

Thinking on and knowing about the rapid-fire railgun bug now, I dread to think what would have happened if I'd stuck around.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

The Problem

...
The solution seems easy. Link the difficulty of the AI to the player's combat rank. After all, a Deadly Python pirate probably isn't going to find it worthwhile chasing a Mostly harmless Adder for a few tonnes, they want to go after something bigger with more valuable cargo.

Properly scaled, the AI can be easy for Harmless and totally nails for the top two ranks. Everyone can play how they like and someone casual or with a different aim doesn't rank up in combat so isn't likely to meet the hardest AI going about their business (though it is still possible). If someone isn't good enough to cope with the AI at Novice, they will never get to Competent and will stall on that level until they do get good enough to move up....

The problem with this is that people are already in the game and have already gone up the combat rankings. They can't go back down as it stands so are fairly stuck unless they wipe their progress and restart. Explorers and traders won't want to restart from scratch and lose their non-combat progress. This is the thing that needs the solution.

What possible solutions are there?
A one-off voluntary reset of combat ranks down to harmless for any that want it. I guess that would work although you may get griefers going down too so they can be more stealth when griefing.
Making combat ranking able to go down as a result of ship destruction. Seems reasonable, a sports pro won't stay ranked in the top 10 if his/her performances decline in relation to other players. League teams can be relegated. The problem there might be that some players are in far too high a rank for their current skills so would have to die and lose a lot of ships to get down to their correct new combat rank.

this wont work. i was very good at making fight or flight decisions in 2.0 and very good at killing the ones i could even one of the few i misjudged i managed to kill. not only do i have an aversion to death i am good at avoiding it. i even lucked out and got saved by the cops from one of the bugged npcs.

combat rank only going down with ship destruction wont work for me. so my rank will slowly rise beyond where i find the game fun. there needs to be a time decay element or a frequency of combat element. something like if you go killing a lot of npcs especially in a short time period then you rank goes up. but if your combats are sporadic, not going to a system and killing dozens but maybe just killing some of those who interdict you, then it should not rise so fast. it should also fall if you havent done any for a while. maybe it should fall if you flee combat. how you check for that i dont know. or maybe it should make a judgement on what you have configured the ship you are in for. but then how do you tell a general purpose asp for trade/missions deliveries/exploring and some combat when interdicted, from an FAS with similar number of weapons and shields and armor but is aimed for pure combat? i dont know what the answer is. but this system is flawed from the point of view of someone whos only rebought once, but is competent rank but not in a pure combat ship. how could the game tell you have fled either... anyway if you can find an answer for my situation in that great. something needs to be done imo about how they work out combat rank. over time i may wind up elite just from slow accumulation of lower level pirate interdiction kills. and someone else will spam their way to elite in a month in a hazres.

perhaps combat ranks should slowly decay with lack of kills back to competent and then pause there unless you do lots of combat. so lower people work slowly to that but then never do enough combat normally to go above it. they would need to make an effort deliberately to raise it at that point.people like me never get out of it either unless we make an effort. and the pure combateers do so much pew pew they never decay but always rise up.

you know, i dont think ELITE combat rank should be a given. both that not everyone should get there but once you are there, you have to work at staying there or either be killed or just lose it back to deadly very very fast. you need to earn it. then you need to constantly prove you deserve it or your rank drops to deadly again.

 

[frostypaw]

Should every fight be so life-or-death such that if you don't have an A-rated combat ship you're just SOL though? Because it sounds like that's what the game has become for many players.

No. And if you read other threads it's kinda different to the handful of folk constantly posting around on here.

 

[Cmdr_Arri]

So, I've been gone from E.D. for quite a few months now taking a break, but decided I wanted to try the new update. But, it seems that I've been told that NPC's now have unlimited MC ammo, and unlimited fuel. How the hell is that fair? How is it fair that an NPC pilot can troll you system after system without regard for fuel levels, or troll you with unlimited ammo until you're dead, but PVP players would have to run away to restock ammo, or slow down to refuel?

I've been with this game since Kickstarter, but there's no way I'm playing against unfair NPC's that have unlimited fuel and MC ammo. What's sad is I was just getting ready to buy a second account. Now since I've been told about the unfair NPC advantages, my money will stay in my pocket, and the game will stay on the shelf until and when this unfair NPC advantage is ever resolved.

What's even more sad is I've never complained about this game and always defended it, until now. Not happy right now....

 

[frostypaw]

If I'd been a newbie in a Sidewinder that would probably have been a death sentence. Heck of an encounter for an entry-grade cargo run [weird]

You're right - but the newbie in a sidewinder shouldn't have spawned a Dangerous. That's how it's meant to work anyway

I'm a novice - i get the occasional Dangerous. The last one was a bitter fight down to half my hull and needed security help - but I still chose it rather than running and only losing a little which I could have done, and was doing before I though sod it let's just see how dangerous the tough ones are

And it was a beast, heaving around with thrusters and FA-off turns and flying backwards - I couldn't hack that all the time at the moment, I don't have the practise and they don't spawn like that all the time either so it's OK.

 

[Katkon]

I think the poll needs to be closed. Why? Because the longer it stays open the more likely it will be biased towards those who complain ED is now too hard. Why? Because people tend to flock to forums to voice dissatisfaction vs bestowing praise. It's why all gaming forums are overwhelmingly negative post-launch. So, to avoid sampling bias, I suggest the poll be closed. If it's not, we'll simply see more votes towards "too hard" and risk ED taking inappropriate action. The current poll size is more than big enough to draw meaningful conclusions, and already suffering from sampling bias.

 

[salacious Sparrow]

As I've seen this poll go, it's been almost 50/50 between the two. Just because people are still voting for too hard doesn't mean the poll isn't accurately representing peoples feelings towards the new AI, though it doesn't guarantee that they're well informed.