Discuss the AI here!

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I agree that i am too much being a troll. But. I am really sad that NPC AI now will be nerf cause of these lazy players. It is not hard actualy. You just have to adapt to it. But these players just too damn lazy. They don't want do anything. That is why i sad.

yet totally lazy, nothing wrong with AI with mods at all

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dHdsYrmKnM#t=17s

link stolen from titus balls post.

as long as npcs can do anything like the above the mods had to be removed.... with luck even though Frontier are not committing to it now, they will come back in some form in the future, but even with a chance of bugs like the above, they cant stay in.

now....

could you imagine the outcry if a player managed to glitch a weapon like that

 

[Boomer Kay]

yet totally lazy, nothing wrong with AI with mods at all

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dHdsYrmKnM#t=17s

link stolen from titus balls post.

0 Pip management, turreted lasers, standing still.
Combat involvement level: comfortable. Even for a Python.

 

[Roadblock]

yet totally lazy, nothing wrong with AI with mods at all

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dHdsYrmKnM#t=17s

link stolen from titus balls post.

as long as npcs can do anything like the above the mods had to be removed.... with luck even though Frontier are not committing to it now, they will come back in some form in the future, but even with a chance of bugs like the above, they cant stay in.

now....

could you imagine the outcry if a player managed to glitch a weapon like that

Wow!!

 

[Luniticisi]

as long as npcs can do anything like the above the mods had to be removed.... with luck even though Frontier are not committing to it now, they will come back in some form in the future, but even with a chance of bugs like the above, they cant stay in.

Hopefully this 'Fix' will solve that but I am not sure it will (again I hope it does) but in one of the two new bug reporting threads this was posted.

Hey CMDRs,

A number of players have been mentioning that they have experienced NPC weapons having an increased rate of fire, damage and other unexpected issues.

As you may have noticed on our post here, the NPC changes will now no longer have Engineers upgrades. However, we believe these may not be engineer specific so if you do happen to see this bug we would greatly appreciate you reporting it below with any evidence or details you’re able to provide.

 

[kepler84]

Not any more: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=257892

Well. That's great!

That should reduce the ludicrous amounts of damage those NPCs were dealing while keeping things interesting.

Giving the player a good chance of running away should solve a big chunk of the issues. Let's hope this measure will be enought.

 

[Lheim]

Yeah, I'd agree - this thread really oughta be closed, and a new one created for discussion of the new, hot-fixed, 'unmodded' ai combat experience.

Too much conflation of topics in this one; it's possible most of the thread is now irrelevant to the current situation.

 

[Javert]

We don't have confirmation that the server changes are live yet.

Once that's live and the news has filtered through to the community, moderators will decide whether to close this thread and start a new one for "post 31st May server update AI feedback" or just leave this one open.

In the meantime I have updated the OP with a link to Zac's post.

 

[James Razor]

We don't have confirmation that the server changes are live yet.

Once that's live and the news has filtered through to the community, moderators will decide whether to close this thread and start a new one for "post 31st May server update AI feedback" or just leave this one open.

In the meantime I have updated the OP with a link to Zac's post.

Bi-Weaves are back, so at least that part got fixed. I guess the other parts are online or will arrive shortly.

 

[Tusken]

300+ pages is a bit much for me, so I'll just drop my view in here.

As I see it the AI good, for a experienced player.

The problem for new players or traders is that we have no clear idea on where you might expect higher level NPC's to show up.

FD keep saying they buffed the AI of the higher level of npc's.
I have been playing ED sins premium beta, but I couldn't tell you where you find noob NPC's, where the midrange and where the high levels.

Nice that there are NPC's for all skill levels.... it just doesn't really matter if you can find all types virtually everywhere.

Now I might be mistaken and it's very easy to figure out where it's relatively safe, but the fact I don't know after years of playing does say something.
Not that i have been looking for the awnser though.

 

[frostypaw]

Join the push for more security information on galmap and HUDs! Currently you have to go into the system map to find out for each system en-route - it should show that information on a plotted route via HI-ME-LO-NO as suggested by yer fella many many many pages back. This would be mirrored when targeting a jump with the letters and a small coloured flash traffic-light style on the reticule

This would reinforce how much it matters - and increase the excitement for newbies of making those first jumps into uncharted systems

 

[CMDR Ellegon]

0 Pip management, turreted lasers, standing still.
Combat involvement level: comfortable. Even for a Python.

You appear to be unable to learn and understand. 4 pips in shields would have given 65% more shields. He lasted 1.5 seconds, so 65% would have made that 2 seconds. No difference at all. Read up on human time to react (from realization of event to action) and it is 1.5 seconds on average. Nothing would have made a difference with that kill rate.

And, yes, mathematics. Assuming that the Python had a 6A shield with no shield boosters and no armour improvements, it would have 397 MJ in shields and 468 armour. Now let us check the damage per second for a large plasma accelerator (21 MJ) and a medium rail gun (22 MJ). It should then take about 40 seconds of hits without a single miss to destroy that Python. If we assume weapons are overpowered through engineer mods by 33% it would be around 30 seconds.

This is not what we see on the many videos. The Python here is destroyed in 1.5 secs, that is what? 500 MJ dps? That is a bug, end of story.

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0 Pip management, turreted lasers, standing still.
Combat involvement level: comfortable. Even for a Python.

Do you have that nonsense on a macro key by now?

 

[Sandmann]

Join the push for more security information on galmap and HUDs! Currently you have to go into the system map to find out for each system en-route - it should show that information on a plotted route via HI-ME-LO-NO as suggested by yer fella many many many pages back. This would be mirrored when targeting a jump with the letters and a small coloured flash traffic-light style on the reticule

This would reinforce how much it matters - and increase the excitement for newbies of making those first jumps into uncharted systems

Yep. Rather than nerfing the AI back to uselessness this update has really highlighted the lack of emphasis on security levels. Players need to know what to expect from a given system before they jump in there. This also applies to knowing what sort of PvP action they can expect in a system, which relates directly (or should) to the level.of security response and the level of consequence for crime as it relates to various system security levels.

Basically you need to know ahead of time if you are jumping into a playground or a hell hole so you can make your choices appropriately.

 

[howardtay]

[video=youtube;zLsM-R2Q1xE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLsM-R2Q1xE[/video]

Check out this AI and his/her Plasma weapons...

I recorded this today, this was my very first trip out after losing two Pythons immediately after the 1.6 upgrade. I only play in Solo mode I do not play Open. This NPC or AI ship (I presume that's what it is) was extremly mild compared to the guys that took my two Pythons after the initial upgrade, these went within seconds of interdiction, so I don't know if these NPC's would have been as persistant is this one was, I was dead before I could find out. I know that I could have taken this one out if I had held my ground but that was not the purpose of this exercise or video, I have 3 x A0 Shield Boosters and a Point defence, My Python is pretty much A rated and I have a class 4 reinforced hull, all turreted laser weapons (I know that fixed, gimballed or cannons would be better, but I'm a terrible shot and not a combat person) Turrets are easier. The Security Forces that arrive are next to useless. I'm now parked in a station and will not be coming out to play until FD fix the bugs. I know I should have the Military Hull or Higher but after reading something about these on this forum, I decided not to, it was something about heat damage or other protection being reduced in the 1.6 upgrade, I think, so I downgraded from Military to a Reinforced Alluminium Hull.

If I have used some of the terminology incorrectly, I apologise I am not an expert on Elite Dangerous, I am a 67 years young retired IT Consultant who just enjoys gaming and space related games in general like the original Elite on the BBC Model 'B', Xwing, Tie Fighter, Mass Effect, Freespace and MS Flight Simulator X (I know the last one is not a space sim, but it is still a good game, and no combat) and there are many more. I think Elite Dangerous is an Exceptional Game and these bugs (if that's what they are) should not be allowed to spoil such a great game. Hopefully FD will fix these problems soon, and I can get back to what I have been playing for the last 6 months, and get my Federal Corvette, and any new ships that FD may introduce, and later I will spend a lot of time exploring this vast Universe that FD have created for us. Above all, this should be a fun game to play and not governed by the fear of losing the ship you have spent so much time, effort and credits to get. For those of us who do not want to spend hours in combat, please let us choose non or easy combatative gameplay, the previous version was just about right for me personally. It may be boring for them, but I like it that way and I'm not bored. Give every player a slider so they can choose Easy, Hard or Insane then they can have what they want and we can have what we want, and everyone's happy..

 

[[DOOK] Droogie]

Security level should be displayed on the HUD, rather than the galaxy map. Unless I'm missing it somewhere. It should also show you the security level of the next system on your route on the HUD, if known.

Maybe like

SYSTEM NAME (High)

 

[Bzek]

Guys, started a thread on another behavior that I think it is new to the AI since 2.1 - apparent immunity to the interdiction spinny stun. Essentially you get fired upon (to the point I lost all my shields) before regaining control of the ship.

Share your findings/comments!

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=258016

 

[Leper Messiah]

Join the push for more security information on galmap and HUDs! Currently you have to go into the system map to find out for each system en-route - it should show that information on a plotted route via HI-ME-LO-NO as suggested by yer fella many many many pages back. This would be mirrored when targeting a jump with the letters and a small coloured flash traffic-light style on the reticule

This would reinforce how much it matters - and increase the excitement for newbies of making those first jumps into uncharted systems

Yep. Rather than nerfing the AI back to uselessness this update has really highlighted the lack of emphasis on security levels. Players need to know what to expect from a given system before they jump in there. This also applies to knowing what sort of PvP action they can expect in a system, which relates directly (or should) to the level.of security response and the level of consequence for crime as it relates to various system security levels.

Basically you need to know ahead of time if you are jumping into a playground or a hell hole so you can make your choices appropriately.

Security level should be displayed on the HUD, rather than the galaxy map. Unless I'm missing it somewhere. It should also show you the security level of the next system on your route on the HUD, if known.

Maybe like

SYSTEM NAME (High)

rep to all and agreed 100%, I was gobsmacked that I had to do such a faff to work out what the darn security level was for a system. If FD can do this and solve the uber Ai weapons then things should settle down to more reasonable (but still hard as hell, but survivable) level.

 

[Daffan]

Remind me again how that works in a multi player game?

Not the guy your quoting but,

Solo play is easy.

Open is Hard.

[yesnod]

 

[Luniticisi]

I must say that although the AI level is going to stay the same (which is great) I am not too sure about removing engineer mods/weapons from all NPC's is a great solution especially as it probably doesn't fix the main worry I have which is the Rate of fire/insta-kill issue that is causing me to not want to log in (even though I have not experienced it myself - I know, I've been here a Long time and I should know better ) but I am playing in a kind of a self imposed Iron-man mode now and I am trying to get to triple Elite with 0 insurance claims (or being blown up)

If I was killed due to a bug, Damn .. don't want to think about that. ! [sad]

 

[CMDR Derrida]

AI is perfect for experienced players and I would hate to see it changed or made easier. I'd hate to be a new player in this universe though, they need to introduce a more advanced training sim!

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

Solo play is easy.

Open is Hard.

[yesnod]

no solo play is much harder. we cant wing up. granted we dont have to deal with player gankers but we see as many npc ones as you though hopefully the removal of mods from npcs will help. its obvious you are another ganker who has driven his victims to solo and wants solo and groups shut thinking players will just come back. i think the superweapons proved that doesnt work because i and a lot of others have been sitting this out after our experiences and a lot of new players and some older ones have quit. thats fact you can look for the goodbyes on this forum and look for them in your open gank land and they wont be there. oops look like you ruined your own fun killing players with a lot more to lose than you with your billions of rebuys. your ships are dispensible. you can easily get back the money in one run with your stashed super trash hauler with max cargo capacity.

i dont have one of those. i have a barely finished asp im flying and a half built FAS i dare not fly until its kitted out and im not making money due to the damage i got every trip i went out to trade or do missions. so it isnt getting finished. nor is the asp getting finished or reconfiged because i have 2 rebuys and i cant afford to lose any more money now. sso dont make assumptions. solo is open minus the idiots gankers and sadly a lot of nice people but i dont know the decent players from the bad so i avoid it. this means i cant wing up for a tough system. this means if im jumped by a wing of pirates, im always on my own unless the police arrive. open isnt hard if you know people you trust. open is impossible to risk into if you dont know who to trust. neither is easy to a new player right now.

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AI is perfect for experienced players and I would hate to see it changed or made easier. I'd hate to be a new player in this universe though, they need to introduce a more advanced training sim!

only sim that works is the real thing. none of the training vids or training missions was anything really like playing 2.0. it wont be different now. i dont remember a training mission where as you were fighting one pirate his wing mate turns up late and starts hitting you from behind lol.