The Star Citizen Thread v 4

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Hey Electrofreak, what do you mean old habits, you've only been here a couple of days :p! Unless you have been locked in eternal conflict in a number of arenas....

Anyway, you asked a while ago about what people don't like about the SC flight model. So here's what I think. I've only played a very short amount of time, partly due to my 0.8 experience being up there with the worst gaming experiences I ever had; I was playing with a 360 game pad, left handed, with no option to rebind keys, and with manual gimballing. I might be an edge case, but it was excruciating! I also tried a free flight racer in 0.9, which was actually kinda fun, since I didn't have to fly and aim at the same time. All told I have probably played for less than 1.5 hours. I've yet to be convinced that playing later versions would be a good use of my time or bandwidth, but I think I downloaded Star Citizen 1.0 (as it was rather unwisely called).

Any how, here are my main criticisms

-- The ships had no mass or inertia. It felt like you were a kid running around with a model of your ship rather than flying a real ship. As a long time (Astro)physicist this was really grating. However, they may have solved this somewhat by substantially weakening the thrusters.

-- I was telling the ship where I wanted it to point, rather than directly choosing to pitch, yaw, or roll (or thrust). This led to further disconnection from the ship

-- seeing the ship maneuver in 3rd person just looked silly.

-- The rapid rotation in all directions meant that the only way to break line of sight was with obstacles, confining actions to small areas

-- As a bonus, the cockpits of almost all the ships are ludicrous, taking up vast amounts of real estate. I do appreciate the variety though


How does ED stand up for an Astrophysicist?
 
So, second time I write this, I failed the first and lost the message...

See, I wouldn't think that HIM deciding to use a different site would constitute a problem of any sort, if there weren't a swarm of angry SC fans following him everywhere he went, registering new accounts and disrupting regular traffic to either launch personal attacks at HIM or sing praises of SC and CIG in some misguided attempt to "counteract" HIM or something. I mean, without the swarm he's just one person spouting mostly drivel, one that threatens CIG's multimillion dollar operation about as much as 1600 does.
The SC fan follow him not because of the lie he say but because some people believe it, and that is NOT those people fault because following SC development from the outside is really hard. So when you are supporting a project and see someone trying to destroy that you just can stay and watch, you come and give people the real informations. Also in my previous post I say that because he is trying to make the ED community hate the SC community and I think some people from the SC community have some responsability in the fact that he act like this.
So I should not have talk about him, like I say I am here to give my point of view and some correct informations if I feel that it is necessary.

About the fact that my account is new, yeah on the forum but as I own ED for almost a year so I don't see the problem.

But that's just me, who knows? Could be an actual bona fide plague. And with that all said, your reminder for me to lower my standards yet again is duly noted. SC fans have told me to lower my expectations so many times that at this point I'll be happy if my computer doesn't catch fire the next time I log into the RSI website.
Well I didn't say that you should lower your standards, do that only if they are too hight comparing to what was announced and for that I have no clue so you of course do as you want.

I think people misunderstand the difference between SQ42 and SC. Most of the awesome looking features are coming to SC, SQ42 will probably "just" be a good space sim focused on the story and only the firt episode is planned this year. When you look in the stretch goal you see :
- 50 missions + enhanced mission design : we don't know yet
- rich story line : we don't know yet
- celebrity voice-acting : we have the list of the actore and some example of that
- Professional motion capture : We have see the result on different ocasion
- full orchestral score : It is ongoing and we have seen a part of the result

I personnaly don't see why it would be that hard to make SQ42.

I am curious, from my post what make you lower you standards ?
 

Wait a sec, earlier today they denied my refund request, but now I read this:

your Pledge shall not be refundable until and unless RSI has failed to deliver the relevant pledge items and/or the Game to you within eighteen (18) months after the estimated delivery date.

...which is today? Does it mean they have to refund me now ? Should I contact them again?
 
Wait a sec, earlier today they denied my refund request, but now I read this:



...which is today? Does it mean they have to refund me now ? Should I contact them again?

Wait until 1 minute after midnight your local time then press send on a follow up refund request e-mail, there might be a rush.
 

"Close for rule 9"

For those that don't know what Rule 9 is: It's posting misinformation, FUD, dividing the community, or discussions of politics/religion.
Not the best of moderation actions in this case IMHO.

Neo-ST, you might try - but I fear that the response will be that the Kickstarter promises have already been delivered to you. But do let us know what happens.
 
"Wait until 1 minute after midnight your local time then press send on a follow up refund request e-mail, there might be a rush."
Yeah as above...+make sure to let them know that you are well aware of the TOS you singed and that CIG didn't delivered game in the period you agreed upon!!!!
 
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I hardly ever post on forums... i think it's a waste of time really.

However, as the Don Quichotte of the self proclaimed software developers, member of the imaginary doctor association and the old-men social media addicts who can't type without adding hastags and using hyperbole uppercase walls of trollerisch text is lurking here, i got to get something of my chest.

If you get confronted with some guy from a cocoa spread factory number 61, who never really made any good product in the first place, is hanging daily about a forum of cocoa spread brand number 21 spouting crap without any shame about cocoa spread brand number 34, what would you think?
 
Neo-ST, you might try - but I fear that the response will be that the Kickstarter promises have already been delivered to you. But do let us know what happens.

Just sent a response with quotes from their own TOS and proof from Kickstarter that they failed to deliver the relevant pledge items.

P.S. it's 1st of June, 1AM here ;)
 
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I hardly ever post on forums... i think it's a waste of time really.

However, as the Don Quichotte of the self proclaimed software developers, member of the imaginary doctor association and the old-men social media addicts who can't type without adding hastags and using hyperbole uppercase walls of trollerisch text is lurking here, i got to get something of my chest.

If you get confronted with some guy from a cocoa spread factory number 61, who never really made any good product in the first place, is hanging daily about a forum of cocoa spread brand number 21 spouting crap without any shame about cocoa spread brand number 34, what would you think?

If this is your first post, I'd agree with your self-assessment that you posting on a forum is a waste of time.

Even if you only mention your beetlejuice obliquely, he will still appear, ya know?

What do you think about SC / SQ42? Development coming along nicely for you, or would you prefer something different from CiG?
 
I hardly ever post on forums... i think it's a waste of time really.

However, as the Don Quichotte of the self proclaimed software developers, member of the imaginary doctor association and the old-men social media addicts who can't type without adding hastags and using hyperbole uppercase walls of trollerisch text is lurking here, i got to get something of my chest.

If you get confronted with some guy from a cocoa spread factory number 61, who never really made any good product in the first place, is hanging daily about a forum of cocoa spread brand number 21 spouting crap without any shame about cocoa spread brand number 34, what would you think?




Hmm, nope, didn't understand a word of that.

Please try again.

Oh, and please, keep the topic on the subject of Star Citizen.
 
I hardly ever post on forums... i think it's a waste of time really.

However, as the Don Quichotte of the self proclaimed software developers, member of the imaginary doctor association and the old-men social media addicts who can't type without adding hastags and using hyperbole uppercase walls of trollerisch text is lurking here, i got to get something of my chest.

If you get confronted with some guy from a cocoa spread factory number 61, who never really made any good product in the first place, is hanging daily about a forum of cocoa spread brand number 21 spouting crap without any shame about cocoa spread brand number 34, what would you think?

Hmmm It's kind of a weird combo in here....I can smell a 75% Lurker and a quarter of a Troll in your "veins"(post above) but I could be wrong....never the less it was sort of strange&funny to read that....[wacky]
 
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Wait a sec, earlier today they denied my refund request, but now I read this:



...which is today? Does it mean they have to refund me now ? Should I contact them again?

You should try yes, well, I don't know about what Time Zone are we talking about. But when it reach that zone you should try.
 
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dsmart

Banned
Wow, that E3 reddit thread is up to 646 comments. I guess most of them are pretending to be SC fans too.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/4lpkst/cig_wont_present_at_pc_gaming_show_after_all/

"it will have been 4 years since announcement this fall. Even giving them a year to get their studios running, that's more time than, for example, COD:IW has had. For a polished winter release, SQ42 should probably have at least their vertical slice done to a standard that would be worthy of showing off."

"Behind schedule is common in all development companies sure, but not behind schedule year after year over and over again missing both internal and publicly announced deadlines thats just incompetence, thats when something is fundamentally wrong with management and more often than not would result people being replaced - but no one can replace CR so it is what it is."

"That's what I find most odd about this "open game development". They don't really release information. They just release... words. And even with these, there's always the silent "unless Roberts says something different, in which case everything before this point is null and void". They use words not to inform but more like a squid uses its ink: To obfuscate and confuse while they quietly slip away."

"Even with ALL the communication they do (shows/monthy reports etc) I still don't really feel like I have a clue what's going on or how far long in the process they are...hell I'm not even sure what the released game will be any longer...there has been so much discussion on features."

Disregard. They're all dsmart alts.
 

dsmart

Banned
the thread on sa is full of gem posts such as this wonderful post about the current state of star citizen. here was a recent one.


CLOUD IMPERIUM CAN'T COMPETE


CIG can't compete with the AAA Space Games they know about -- and the certainly can't compete with the ones they don't know about. They are a floundering, disorganized studio -- the Ad Hoc-iest game studio in recent memory -- and they've betrayed this very fact repeatedly without intending to in the very shows meant to boost backer confidence in the project.


Over the last month or so, I have been astonished to see how many new faces have appeared on "Around the Verse". This most recent episode features an employee in LA who was on his very first day of work. His very first day.


I don't mean by mentioning him to impugn his talent or question his worth. He might be a great hire-- as might be all the new hires. But CIG is a Gaming Studio whose revolving door spins like a top -- so many leaving, so many coming in. It might take 3-6 months before a new hire reaches something approximating productivity. Yet CIG is not a well-tuned engine made faster or more efficient once new employees learn the ropes, it is a bucket brigade. Some fight fires, others try to keep the thing afloat.


Rockstar, Bethesda, Infinity Ward, Bioware-- these are machines. Work doesn't grind to a halt because some guy broke his arm, or because they lose a key employee, or because they can't fill a position. They may occasionally push a release date back three months, they may occasionally even lose a badass. But deadlines matter to them because they make their money AFTER release, not before.


And the most successful of them hardly lose employees at all. Bethesda Softworks has 100 employees. Some have worked together 5,10 even 20 years. Todd Howard touched on the mysterious shorthand that emerges between people who've worked together closely for that long in a recent speech at DICE. There are synergies CIG can't even dream of once a studio achieves that level of cohesion. It took 100 people 4 years to put out Fallout 4-- and they made nearly $1B in 24 hours upon release. CIG can't compete against such studios because they can't compete like them.


"YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT GAME DEVELOPMENT!"


"Why, it's just the way the Games Industry works!", the backers always retort, as some did when Mark Skelton's surprise departure was announced only days ago. "You know nothing about Game Development if you don't know that!"


Alas, would that that were true. Would that it all were true! Than the steady flow of CIG arrivals and departures was a sign of the relative health of the company; a sign of good things to come for Star Citizen and Squadron 42.


Yet the perpetual turnover and ad hoc development habits of Cloud Imperium Games are not typical of every studio.


Nor are logjams where two years of motion capture animations pile up undeployed because there's no Technical Animator on-hand to port them into the game.


Nor is starting a new year without a development roadmap for the year ahead, necessitating ad hoc spitballing sessions between management power players spread across the globe.


Nor is prioritizing the addition of in-game Spacedoll clothes shopping when your tutorial is broken, your flight model ludicrous, and your FPS so bad you can put a clip full of bullets in an opponents head, only to watch him strike a T Pose and hover away.


THIS IS WHAT FLOUNDERING LOOKS LIKE


It explains quite neatly why Star Citizen remains in an unstable Alpha state, 4.5 years in, with less than 10% of its promised content and features available for players. A company like CIG does not have time to anticipate and then respond to their competitive threats because...


...Their Developers are too busy lining up all of Chris Roberts promised game features and deciding which ones to shoot in the head...


...Their QA teams are documenting bugs squashed months ago somehow resurrected with new patches...


...Their Customer Support folks are busy sending canned "too bad, so sad" replies to people asking for refunds...


... Their Community Team is too busy putting out weekly tv shows about Wing Commander arcana while denying viewers answers about delivery dates for content...


... Their Visionary Leader is too busy shooting even more footage for a long overdue single player game unlikely to ever recoup its development budget...


...and their Marketing Team, such as it is, continues to pursue her Hollywood dream while not even bothering to stay abreast of basic game developments like Evocati testing...


How can they respond to threats from without when fighting threats from within is a fulltime job?



I know this was true for the last few years, when Chris Roberts thought the Space Game race market would be fought over between him and his Frenemy of old, David Braben.


But 2016 has been a wake up call. and from what I can tell, yesteryear's sense of Manifest Destiny is beginning to crumble in the senior leadership. It is one thing to make offhand claims about developing a shooter on par with Call of Duty when you're primary competition is a space game that hasn't yet added space legs. It is quite another when the latest "Call of Duty" game is set in space and includes space dogfighting missions and Zero G combat.


[timg]http://i.giphy.com/13oODBXndvZMYg.gif[/timg]


"I sense a disturbance in The Farce..."



Except they may not have anything super impressive to show. They unfortunately now live in a world where the Admiral Bishop speech will be compared with Infinite Warfare cutscenes. It's going to be really hard to compete against that kind of polish, especially when Infinity Ward specifically prioritized improving the CoD storytelling elements and brought in some of the creatives behind "The Last of Us" and "Uncharted 4" to do just that.


Chris Roberts told us that AAA studios make creatively compromised games and subordinate creative visionaries to beancounter concerns. And in 3 years time, one of the biggest AAA franchises in gaming history has cooked up a Dogfighting and FPS movie game that Squadron 42 must now prove superior to, lest Chris' narrative be repudiated. I'm going out on a limb here, but I kinda think he's parped on that front...


Hey, I agree with this.


When I originally predicted a possible Hamill appearance, it was as much about reinforcing backer confidence during an event that's likely to erode it.


A Hamill appearance gets Chris a warmer crowd than he might otherwise enjoy, and that's going to come across better on the livestream, but Hamill can't use the Force and make new people buy this game when a lot of other E3 signals might be saying, "This aren't the games you're looking for. Move along. Move along." I think we might see a bump in sales, but only that.


The bigger problem coming out of E3 is one I've harped for awhile.



These narratives are too ironic not to tempt a journalist or two, and Mark Hamill's presence makes the connection so obvious even a Gaming Journalist might figure it out.


If I were Chris, I'd be very, very worried about this. If he employed real Marketing and Brand expertise, they'd have warned of this very risk a long time ago, and they'd have made course corrections to reduce the risk. But he doesn't, and they didn't, and now we're here.

END POST

this was posted by GORF. A great poster who provides great analytical commentary about star citizen. Is the thread hostile to sc, then yes, but that's because cig just keep messing up and failing. Sure there is irrelevant things that don't apply but the general feeling is that this game is on a rocky path and will probably not be released as they promised.

Yeah, he's amazing. Yet some people think I make long effort posts :)
 
Personally, I think the people predicting a "Star Citizen apocalypse" in here are sipping some pretty strong Kool-Aid. No matter what you think about the game and its progress, it's backed by a million backers, 114 million bucks, 4 studios, 300 employees, and a famous name. It has a lot of momentum, even if the acceleration has been slower than anyone wanted.

Predictions of CIG failing have come and gone for a couple years now without any merit. I'm guessing they'll just change the TOS deadline again and issue refunds to people who didn't agree to any adhesion clauses, which isn't a lot, as most backers have downloaded and agreed to the new TOS at some point since November 2014.

Basically, I'll believe it when I see it.

Edit - In b4 dsmart swooping in here to post something in capital letters and bold font about how he knows something or another, because inside sources, and proceeding to drop a link to his blog.

A few things you have incorrect.

SC does not have a million backers, the star citizen number is the number of people that have made an account on the website. Even the Fleet number is just the number of ships sold.

CIG does not have 114 million bucks, they have been spending that money for the last 3+ years, with some every expensive motion capture and actors.

SC is not backed by 4 studios, they have something like 12, why they need that many? Who knows.

According to Ben CIG have 400 employee's.

CIG have no momentum and that is what most people complain about, despite all that money and all those people working it, the studios have managed to produce less then studios with 1/3 the staff and way way less money.
 
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