Discuss the AI here!

What do you think of the new AI?

  • Too hard

    Votes: 954 46.7%
  • Just right

    Votes: 838 41.0%
  • Too easy

    Votes: 117 5.7%
  • Other (give reason)

    Votes: 134 6.6%

  • Total voters
    2,043
  • Poll closed .
Status
Thread Closed: Not open for further replies.
+1 Enopho's Grandfather, you hit the nail on the head
So when you - in your private group in easy mode - get to find the mystery in the rift, defeat the thargoids and change the face of the galaxy while everyone else is years behind in hard mode wondering why the bubble is changing so much around them - how do the rest of us cope and make sense of it in our big shared galaxy?

This is, unfortunately, the price for a big shared rich galaxy - we all are on the adventure together and the galaxy is the same for us all or it's a totally different game.
 
I play sporadically due to work commitments but I came back on to run some trading missions. Twice got interdicted by an Eagle (I have T6) and both times they melted my shields and armor within 45 seconds of interdict.

Not sure what I could do about that.
if it was just now then there are stickied bug reports for bugged weapons.
 
Thank you for being considerate in your request for us to be considerate to your wishes for the game. A nice change of pace from all of the ankle-biting and crying that everyone else has been doing.

The issue with making the difficulty selective in one mode and not the other, I.E. making Solo play variable in difficulty and Open the same difficulty for everyone, is that you only have one save shared between all of them.

This means that it's exploitable by people who don't want to work for their rewards, and they will use it to circumvent penalties in Open Play that wouldn't exist in Solo. I'll provide some examples.

First and most obvious: I play in Open but in Open money is harder to earn than in Solo since the theoretical new changes to Solo which have introduced an Easy difficulty. If I see something I want added to the game that's going to take me a significant amount of time to earn money for, I could go to Solo, set it to easy, and earn that reward in a fraction of the amount of time it would take me to earn it in Open, then skip back to Open and I would have an advantage over everyone who decided to stay and play in Open since I keep my rewards. This will result in a trend where everyone starts dropping out of Open to earn credits, reputation and materials at the faster rate because they don't want to be disadvantaged against anyone else who also does this.

Edit: I forgot to include more than one example... OOPS.

Secondly, I could do the same with reputation, earning it in Solo faster than in Open.

Thirdly, I could do it to fix my mistakes without having to worry about the penalties of those mistakes. Say I get a bad reputation with a faction and that faction becomes hostile, while I'm deep in their territory. I can log in to Solo, change the difficulty to easy and leave their territory much more easily than I could by staying in open, on top of being able to change my reputation back to friendly faster and easier by doing the required tasks in Solo.

The immediate response to this is to make Commander save files separate for each instance: Open, Solo and Private. Sadly this idea has been rejected by both the devs and the community, and for good reason. From a technical standpoint the game is not in a great position, and there are often times when Open play is not functioning. During these times Open players have to date been able to drop to Solo or Private to continue playing, but unique saves between all of the play modes would be a huge detriment to what has been a saving grace for many players in the face of FDev's continued technical problems with their server structure, especially in the United States.

There have been hundreds of pages of discussion on this topic scattered about, in different places and times. It is the proverbial dead horse. There are also significant issues that would arise with some of the game's core design choices regarding the implementation of any type of adjustable difficulty, mainly that it would require a complete rework of how the Non Player Characters work, and that those changes would be so significant that many of the game's other mechanics would have to be changed to fit with them.

Feel free to continue asking questions and making suggestions though. we always enjoy the input when it's well thought out and presented politely. Sadly this is almost never the case with the rest of the community.

On a final note I'd like to point out a maxim that has been true about game design since man decided to waste his time playing them, going back to skipping stones and rolling dice.

If you cater to everyone, you satisfy no one.

I appreciate your reply, thank you. And I only just worked out how to copy a quote - i'm getting better at this!

I can see your dilemma with the the developers coding and the multiple saves and honestly i did not know that the same save is used on OPEN, SINGLE and GROUP PLAY as i have only ever done GROUP play with my grandson, i'm too scared to play in OPEN play after my 1st couple of days on those servers - I had my simple sidewinder ship destroyed 4 times by real players 'just for the sake of it' before i could even get out of the starting system! not much of my anticipated 'exploring' done there! so we created a PRIVATE GROUP and played in that.

Anyway back to this computer player issue - So you cant make a Difficulty slider/selector - I can see why now, but this does not alter the fact that i keep reading about many Elite fans with an issue getting killed very easily and have experienced this myself, where i am trading or just exploring a system or having a look at a signal source or some non threatening planet scan and get interdicted by a computer player and before my FSD has even got 1 quarter recharged i have been killed by a low level eagle or sidewinder. Where as before the patch.. i may have lost 1 shield ring but i would of made it out. I just feel that for those of us that need the buffer of 'slightly less of a hardcore challenge' we are getting a game we cannot play anymore. We are wanting to explore and enjoy the beauty of this game.. and it is beautiful - I give you that! I used to play every afternoon after the nurse came to visit and i don't get visitors very often, but since the update i won't even turn it on. The GROUP play is so hard on my own that I feel i am going backwards, losing money, losing cargo, and too scared to venture into the unknown, which i thought this game was all about.. maybe i was wrong.

Do you happen to know if the developers or planning on 'tweaking' the computer players skills so they accommodate the more sedate players that just enjoy pottering around and don't want to fight. Maybe if they are i will come back to the game after that date? Personally the feeling i get from this game is the fun of exploring OUR OWN system but right now i don't even want to turn it on as i don't have the funds to repair my ship anymore.

Thanks once again.
Enopho's Grandfather
 
Except this mentality is promoting exactly the opposite, and the player population shows it. Forgetting the fact that I've had 6 friends buy the game and then ditch it because they didn't find the combat challenging, when people have nothing to set as an achievable goal in the game, such as.... (HURR HURR! Wait for it..... Wait for it....) Getting. Good. they leave. There are hundreds of other games out there waiting to be played and there is no reason to stick around and wait for this one to spontaneously become interesting again.

These players are gone, and only an infinitesimal percentage of them will ever consider coming back.

You're speaking on behalf of way too many people.......I sincerely hope FD figure out some way of satisfying those who want a challenge, I'm sure they will.
 
So when you - in your private group in easy mode - get to find the mystery in the rift, defeat the thargoids and change the face of the galaxy while everyone else is years behind in hard mode wondering why the bubble is changing so much around them - how do the rest of us cope and make sense of it in our big shared galaxy?

This is, unfortunately, the price for a big shared rich galaxy - we all are on the adventure together and the galaxy is the same for us all or it's a totally different game.
the shared galaxy is why enophos grandfathers idea will not be happening. i play solo, and apart from not wanting it nerfed (or over buffed) i love community goals. if im not out of the bubble i jump at the chance to grab some of what the goal needs and go sell it there. all helps. but i dont do powerplay. tried it didnt like it. that too would be affected. people already complain about orchestrated campaigns of undermining by one organised group against anothers station (i dont understand how player groups can own stations but whatever) done through solo or a private group preventing defenders from fighting them. they would wind up splitting into two galaxies for groups and solo and the open game with diverging powerplays and politics and so on. then solo would be split off and groups and there would be three or groups would have to be merged back into open somehow. not workable. but they can do the ai so you can still play lets give them time.

i meant the last bit at enopho grandad but multiquote is too complicated.
 
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Do you happen to know if the developers or planning on 'tweaking' the computer players skills so they accommodate the more sedate players that just enjoy pottering around and don't want to fight.
The problem is if you then want to interact with the rest of the game and galaxy then what? You go sailing past in a paperboat full of gold and silver while others have to struggle? Happily swinging the fate of millions in easy mode while it's hard for others? It wouldn't work.

You are asking for the game to be neutered because you lost one ship and you've heard people who want to scare folk into siding with them on the forums - please be reasonable and consider changing how you play rather than the galaxy. Switch to high-speed Cobra builds, learn to run when needed and about system security - plan your routes and escapes - you can still do what you wanted - but if you want just exploration then this isn't the game for you as there will always be threats and bigger ones coming - it is and always has been a series of games with a high level of action and while it's sad if that's not what you wanted it is what a lot of people do and there are other options for purely exploring space
 
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I appreciate your reply, thank you. And I only just worked out how to copy a quote - i'm getting better at this!

I can see your dilemma with the the developers coding and the multiple saves and honestly i did not know that the same save is used on OPEN, SINGLE and GROUP PLAY as i have only ever done GROUP play with my grandson, i'm too scared to play in OPEN play after my 1st couple of days on those servers - I had my simple sidewinder ship destroyed 4 times by real players 'just for the sake of it' before i could even get out of the starting system! not much of my anticipated 'exploring' done there! so we created a PRIVATE GROUP and played in that.

Anyway back to this computer player issue - So you cant make a Difficulty slider/selector - I can see why now, but this does not alter the fact that i keep reading about many Elite fans with an issue getting killed very easily and have experienced this myself, where i am trading or just exploring a system or having a look at a signal source or some non threatening planet scan and get interdicted by a computer player and before my FSD has even got 1 quarter recharged i have been killed by a low level eagle or sidewinder. Where as before the patch.. i may have lost 1 shield ring but i would of made it out. I just feel that for those of us that need the buffer of 'slightly less of a hardcore challenge' we are getting a game we cannot play anymore. We are wanting to explore and enjoy the beauty of this game.. and it is beautiful - I give you that! I used to play every afternoon after the nurse came to visit and i don't get visitors very often, but since the update i won't even turn it on. The GROUP play is so hard on my own that I feel i am going backwards, losing money, losing cargo, and too scared to venture into the unknown, which i thought this game was all about.. maybe i was wrong.

Do you happen to know if the developers or planning on 'tweaking' the computer players skills so they accommodate the more sedate players that just enjoy pottering around and don't want to fight. Maybe if they are i will come back to the game after that date? Personally the feeling i get from this game is the fun of exploring OUR OWN system but right now i don't even want to turn it on as i don't have the funds to repair my ship anymore.

Thanks once again.
Enopho's Grandfather

There are plenty of people complaining, but keep in mind happy people don't complain, they're busy playing the game.

The NPC's really don't deal much more damage than they used to, they're just better at applying the damage. If you're dying significantly faster than you used to when you're just doing a simple escape then it is likely the result of a few bugs that have been introduced with the new patch which increases their rate of fire. These are getting fixed, and after that you'll find that the lower end Non Player Characters have actually been reduced in difficulty. They're easier to fight, easier to evade and easier to trick. The difficulty was only made harder on the other end of the spectrum, which you haven't even experienced yet.

Be patient and wait for the patch that fixes the bugs, and then decide whether the changes are problematic for you or not. You'll likely be quite pleased.

Also, if you wait until after the bugs are fixed and file a support ticket explaining the circumstances the Support Team is usually very considerate about this sort of thing and will likely be more than happy to reimburse you what you've lost due to the bugs.

Edit: Or file it now, I simply suggested filing it later because if you decided to jump back in the game before they were confirmed to be fixed you'd risk losing it all a second time.
 
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[snip]

Do you happen to know if the developers or planning on 'tweaking' the computer players skills so they accommodate the more sedate players that just enjoy pottering around and don't want to fight. Maybe if they are i will come back to the game after that date? Personally the feeling i get from this game is the fun of exploring OUR OWN system but right now i don't even want to turn it on as i don't have the funds to repair my ship anymore.

Thanks once again.
Enopho's Grandfather

Hello Enopho's Grandfather

Yes, FD are indeed modifying (in fact I think they already have modified) the potency of some of the NPCs engineered weapons. You can read about it here.

You might want to get back out there and see how you get on. Just don't take any high ranking missions, and avoid anarchy areas... :)
 
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As I said, maybe its time to make a altered universe in Ironman mode, this way we who like the challenge can sign up there, and the rest can continue in the open, solo, private mode.
 
You're speaking on behalf of way too many people.......I sincerely hope FD figure out some way of satisfying those who want a challenge, I'm sure they will.

I'm not speaking on behalf of anyone. They spoke for themselves when they left the game. It's not my fault you weren't listening.
 
There are plenty of people complaining, but keep in mind happy people don't complain, they're busy playing the game.

The NPC's really don't deal much more damage than they used to, they're just better at applying the damage. If you're dying significantly faster than you used to when you're just doing a simple escape then it is likely the result of a few bugs that have been introduced with the new patch which increases their rate of fire. These are getting fixed, and after that you'll find that the lower end Non Player Characters have actually been reduced in difficulty. They're easier to fight, easier to evade and easier to trick. The difficulty was only made harder on the other end of the spectrum, which you haven't even experienced yet.

Be patient and wait for the patch that fixes the bugs, and then decide whether the changes are problematic for you or not. You'll likely be quite pleased.

Also, if you wait until after the bugs are fixed and file a support ticket explaining the circumstances the Support Team is usually very considerate about this sort of thing and will likely be more than happy to reimburse you what you've lost due to the bugs.

Edit: Or file it now, I simply suggested filing it later because if you decided to jump back in the game before they were confirmed to be fixed you'd risk losing it all a second time.

Thanks Winscreen Smudge.. interesting name by the way,

I will wait for the patch to fix the bugs in the last patch?? that sounded better in my head! hopefully it wont be too long.
 
So doing this endless 25 modular terminal grind for marco I get the usual "I've come a long way blah blah" message whilst scooping a star so being rather close I turn so the star is directly behind me theory being the pirate (elite conda) can't interdict me without getting burned up by the star, wrong.... He flies around a bit unable to get behind then suddenly his radar blip moves directly into the center of the star and interdicts, bit of a cheat methinks?
 
Now HiRES is much more playable and I even dare to collect Mats. They still use Plasma and Missiles so the added danger is there but I now feel much safer especially as there are plenty of Security to get stuck in.
However, does anyone now find it too easy?
hmmm, we now need a new thread and poll as this is now obsolete! - LOCK IT!
 
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So doing this endless 25 modular terminal grind for marco I get the usual "I've come a long way blah blah" message whilst scooping a star so being rather close I turn so the star is directly behind me theory being the pirate (elite conda) can't interdict me without getting burned up by the star, wrong.... He flies around a bit unable to get behind then suddenly his radar blip moves directly into the center of the star and interdicts, bit of a cheat methinks?
He was abusing the Quantum Tunneling effect. Report him.
 
Now HiRES is much more playable and I even dare to collect Mats. They still use Plasma and Missiles so the added danger is there but I now feel much safer especially as there are plenty of Security to get stuck in.
However, does anyone now find it too easy?
hmmm, we now need a new thread and poll as this is now obsolete! - LOCK IT!

Yes, i do, it was boring and totally not fun! However as I said maybe I was just unlucky and got some drunk NPCS.
 
Thanks Winscreen Smudge.. interesting name by the way,

I will wait for the patch to fix the bugs in the last patch?? that sounded better in my head! hopefully it wont be too long.

Not a problem, if I had left you to this sorry lot they would've told you to stop being a pantywaister and quit whining about the arthritis, because that's not an acceptable excuse as long as you have a face to mash on the keyboard.

We're supposed to have some nannies around here that keep the place in order, but because they've decided it's more fun to choose sides than it is to manage the community they've been slacking.
 
Now HiRES is much more playable and I even dare to collect Mats. They still use Plasma and Missiles so the added danger is there but I now feel much safer especially as there are plenty of Security to get stuck in.
However, does anyone now find it too easy?
hmmm, we now need a new thread and poll as this is now obsolete! - LOCK IT!

I believe I'm going to scream.
 
Thank you for being considerate in your request for us to be considerate to your wishes for the game. A nice change of pace from all of the ankle-biting and crying that everyone else has been doing.

The issue with making the difficulty selective in one mode and not the other, I.E. making Solo play variable in difficulty and Open the same difficulty for everyone, is that you only have one save shared between all of them.

This means that it's exploitable by people who don't want to work for their rewards, and they will use it to circumvent penalties in Open Play that wouldn't exist in Solo. I'll provide some examples.

First and most obvious: I play in Open but in Open money is harder to earn than in Solo since the theoretical new changes to Solo which have introduced an Easy difficulty. If I see something I want added to the game that's going to take me a significant amount of time to earn money for, I could go to Solo, set it to easy, and earn that reward in a fraction of the amount of time it would take me to earn it in Open, then skip back to Open and I would have an advantage over everyone who decided to stay and play in Open since I keep my rewards. This will result in a trend where everyone starts dropping out of Open to earn credits, reputation and materials at the faster rate because they don't want to be disadvantaged against anyone else who also does this.

Edit: I forgot to include more than one example... OOPS.

Secondly, I could do the same with reputation, earning it in Solo faster than in Open.

Thirdly, I could do it to fix my mistakes without having to worry about the penalties of those mistakes. Say I get a bad reputation with a faction and that faction becomes hostile, while I'm deep in their territory. I can log in to Solo, change the difficulty to easy and leave their territory much more easily than I could by staying in open, on top of being able to change my reputation back to friendly faster and easier by doing the required tasks in Solo.

The immediate response to this is to make Commander save files separate for each instance: Open, Solo and Private. Sadly this idea has been rejected by both the devs and the community, and for good reason. From a technical standpoint the game is not in a great position, and there are often times when Open play is not functioning. During these times Open players have to date been able to drop to Solo or Private to continue playing, but unique saves between all of the play modes would be a huge detriment to what has been a saving grace for many players in the face of FDev's continued technical problems with their server structure, especially in the United States.

There have been hundreds of pages of discussion on this topic scattered about, in different places and times. It is the proverbial dead horse. There are also significant issues that would arise with some of the game's core design choices regarding the implementation of any type of adjustable difficulty, mainly that it would require a complete rework of how the Non Player Characters work, and that those changes would be so significant that many of the game's other mechanics would have to be changed to fit with them.

Feel free to continue asking questions and making suggestions though. we always enjoy the input when it's well thought out and presented politely. Sadly this is almost never the case with the rest of the community.

On a final note I'd like to point out a maxim that has been true about game design since man decided to waste his time playing them, going back to skipping stones and rolling dice.

If you cater to everyone, you satisfy no one.

Players like Enopho's grandpa could be accomodated with out being unfair to other players. Adjustment of NPC difficulty would just require a balance of the rewards with the risk. For example, lower difficulty would give less advancement on ranks and reputation and disallow any highly priced rewards (discovering alien ruins, for example). Higher than normal difficulty would give extra rewards, like trade bonuses, specially rare materials, maybe even a voucher for a free engineer mod.

As such a balanced risk and reward system would only relate to NPCs, I see no reason why it could not work in Open as well. One import consideration would be to limit changes to the setting, i.e. allowing changes only with no open missions and docked in a medium or better security system.

If you don't cater to the vast majority of your player base, the success of your game will suffer.
 
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If you don't cater to the vast majority of your player base, the success of your game will suffer.

The vast majority of the player base left because FDev was trying to cater to everyone, sooo.... What now? We've got a fairly even split between people who want a challenge and people who want Farmville in space, seems to me that right now is a good time for FDev to say "Screw it, we're going to make a good game and the rest of you can <go away>."

Coincidentally, good games have good AI.
 
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Switch to high-speed Cobra builds, learn to run when needed and about system security - plan your routes and escapes - you can still do what you wanted - but if you want just exploration then this isn't the game for you as there will always be threats and bigger ones coming - it is and always has been a series of games with a high level of action and while it's sad if that's not what you wanted it is what a lot of people do and there are other options for purely exploring space

...okay, now I know defense of the status quo has officially jumped the shark. One of the most prolific activities in ED, which has generated epic community events and screenshots and prompted players to push the boundaries and limits in getting as far as possible, yet it's suddenly not the game for people who just want to explore because the latest update botched a few things? Sorry FP, but either there's a breathtaking lack of consideration on display there or the Frontier Forums Mental Gymnastics Division just flipped clear out the building o_O
 
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