Yep that's a very welcome FIX in response to well-reasoned (and some emotional) posts ! Who says FD don't listen to us in forums ? [big grin]
FDev, please show a bit more respect for your players time.
- Thread starter Tanith Low
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Yep that's a very welcome FIX in response to well-reasoned (and some emotional) posts ! Who says FD don't listen to us in forums ? [big grin]
I would like it much better if we just had to gather tons more resources and get the upgrade we want instead of all the RNG.
Just like we gather all the credits to get the ship we want.
A friend of mine encouraged me to write this on the forums, in the hope that FDev read it.
I have a real love affair with ED, I truly do. The game is fantastic - mostly! But the engineers update has left me feeling quite low, to the point where i have decided to put the game down and look to other ways of spending my time.
The main reason for this is that I don't feel that the game (or the devs I suppose) respect the amount of time that the game demands of it's players. I in no way want an instant gratification game, objectives that you can achieve in an hour or two aren't as satisfying as one which take many times that to achieve. But I have spent 20+ hours in the game this weekend and for a variety of reasons failed to achieve anything meaningful. This is partly due to mission bugs, telling me to kill a certain number of something then not spawning enough to complete the mission, or changing the delivery destination then not allowing me to complete the mission at the new destination. While I do understand that the patch is just out, I can't help but feel that an update which was delayed "for quality reasons" should exhibit some improvement in quality - especially since many of the issues encountered were flagged during beta. The bugs in the missions, as well as the meta alloy bug has resulted in a significant amount of time spent not achieving anything in the game, which is to say the least, infuriating. I have no objection to failing a mission, providing it's something I did wrong. This way I can learn from my mistake, a learning process which I find rewarding. The only thing I have learnt from the bugged missions is to avoid certain mission types unless I am prepared to have the game go "nope, not this time buddy".
The thing that shows a rather significant disrespect for my time is the RNG nature of crafting. A little RNG is good, it allows for the wonder of discovery. But the engineers are RNG, on RNG, on RNG, on RNG. A random chance you'll find the materials (this is fine), then a random chance you'll get something good, then another random chance that you'll get a (randomly assigned) special effect! The result is you spend 15 hours doing missions to get some of the materials which are only available as mission rewards, as well as dropping into every ship wreck and roaming around planets - only to be told by the RNG that the dirty drives mod will not net you a 10% speed and maneuverability boost, but rather a 4% boost. This is a significant difference, and one that renders my efforts largely meaningless. Ah well I can try again after another 15 hours of gameplay!
I enjoy the fact that Elite requires a time commitment, I class that as a real selling point of the game. But after basically two solid days playing I should feel like I have achieved something with my time. As it is I feel like I really would have been better spent doing almost anything else this weekend. Long term it leaves me worried for my future enjoyment of the game.
Now many of you will call this burn out - you may be right. I have been playing the game for a while, maybe it is time to take a break. However given my experience over the last few days I'm not sure how enthused I will feel to come back to ED. There will be that voice in my head going "Yeah, but you could just be about to waste 4 hours of your evening. Why not do something else that you know you'll enjoy?".
Others will say that I want an instant gratification game - these people can sod off!As alternative to this I have downloaded Stelaris, if you don't know it have a look, it's an awesome space RT Grand Strategy game. It is not instant gratification. It is also hard as the proverbial nails, but I feel like even in failure I have achieved something useful after I've been playing it.
And yet others will tell me that they like the game like this - fair enough, you are entitled to your opinion, and I am happy for you. But I would be remiss if I didn't make my concerns known, especially since the Devs truly do listen to the community.
And that's really what this is about. I'm not sure if the devs have thought about the direction they are heading with this. I appreciate a game that is for the hardcore gamer crowd, more should be made. Built there is a difference between a hardcore gamer, and someone with the luxury and patience to sink 4 or 5 hours, every day into playing a video game. At the moment it feels like the game is being built for the latter, and penalizing the former. If that is truly what they want then fair enough, but I'm not sure that it is - and I hope that in reading this and other posts like it they will realise the effect their current design philosophy is having on a proportion of their player base.
Anyhoo, see you all in 2.2, to see if this has resolved into a game I want to play again. If not, no hard feelings. The year I've spent in Elite Dangerous has been awesome!
TTFN
Couldn't have said it better myself.
If Fdev were to completely do away with the whole RNG aspect of crafting, then this update would be just fine. I have no issue with having to go out and gather the necessary materials needed for the crafting, but when all of that time spent is completely wasted when i go to actually try to take a crack at getting one of the mods i want, only to have it roll terribly on top of not getting the special effect i want, it is very discouraging. Keep in mind thats just for ONE mod, if you have a large ship like an Anaconda or Corvette, you have a literal wall of grind to scale ahead of you. As if the Initial grind to get the ship you've always wanted, plus outfitting it, wasn't enough. It Doesn't add to the game play, it only makes it more of a chore by artificially increasing your play time.
Players want to feel rewarded for the time the put into this game. This RNG system is just a slap in the face to anyone who is trying to gather all the materials needed so that they can achieve that build they have in mind for their ship. I spent more then a year grinding away to get my Anaconda, i should be free to do and experiment with whatever i damn well please on it.
I had Theory crafted a cool weapon build i wanted to do with my Anaconda, but when i got in game and actually took a good look at what that would actually take to do, i lost all motivation and logged off, and haven't been back on since.
Please reconsider this Fdev.
<removed sexually explicit language - please do not do this>
I'm honestly glad someone has brought this up, I've noticed this community has a real problem with rampant fanboyism, and that certain group of fanboys will defend whatever decision Fdev makes, no matter how badly thought out it is. On top of that, anyone with any kind of criticism who even dares to insinuate that this game MAY have some problems, is labeled a "Whiner", or a "Troll".
Constructive criticism is what allows a game to develop and grow you guys, if we were all just mindless yes men to fdev, then this game won't grow and it will just die out.
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That's too bad.
Wish it wouldn't. Assuming you have any kind of money death is pretty painless in this game. If it hurt more I bet people would be playing smarter, cooperating more, and the Galaxy would be a happier place. As a practical matter how is a insurance rebuy replacing these "custom built special mods." If they are that easy to replace what do I need all the Engineer hullabaloo for?
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Nah...as the OP has opined, the cost of failure is very high in this game...relative to the time it take to sink into it to 'git gud'.
Adding more costs...to be repaid/reworked/re-ground would make more people disheartened and force them into Private/Solo/RL.
I wrote a similar piece months ago in the Group Leaders Forum...particularly dealing with BGS bugs, opacity, and time spent trying to discern whether it was a bug or player action that was causing issues.
This is a real issue...and higher costs to losing exacerbate it, rather than ameliorate it.
New areas and content to explore (I'm hoping the 'legs' update will help with this). Pirate bases to assault or explore (wings need some love, and "raids" imo offer the best potential), massive derelicts, legitimate alien worlds and fantastical elements. Or something else to keep people interested: various randomly generated "dynamic" missions. Pop into an instance, suddenly a ship needs protecting from pirates that will intercept them in a minute, escort missions, etc. There are many things that can be incorporated into the game that can and would "expand" it for people who have been playing extensively already. And the thing with these suggestions is that they can be built upon, other developers have proven this.
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Yeah, I kinda of wanted to clear my save game on all updates, because I feel like I'm missing out on the journey, 2.1 being the most significant.
When I first started, back in 1.2, I began by creeping around trying not to upset certain factions, work out who were friends or more importantly who did I want as friends. I soon realised, literally none of that mattered, do what you want, nobody gives a flying monkeys. I believe 2.1/1.6 is a step in the right direction. The day it becomes reality, I will clear my save. It's all about the history and background about how you got to where you are, you can't do that effectively starting with two thirds of all the ships in the game and 2 billion Cr ... You know...
"Blaze your own trail"
But the rest you mentioned, will help.
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Ya know If you were to compare ED to most other games. Especially anything in this genre It should still be in Alpha. ED was released way to early just to beat SC and in this whole process FD has screwed their self by doing this season thing and then on top of that releasing really subpar expansions. We all would probably be happy if this was still called Alpha.... We would just be waiting for the next release to see what comes. But FD keeps us in the dark so much we never know what is really coming till its too late. FD you should take a page out of the RSI handbook and change the direction a little. Horizons gave us nothing new accept a rover and planet landing. Woopiieee... Landing on a planet and planet station is exactly like a station. Same exact missions. Same everything. paid another 75.00 for not a hell of a lot. There isn't even a planetary map or even a partial surface map. you just stuck a crappy version of a space station on a planet. Not even trying to make it look like it was well used. I want to play the game that I saw the video for in Kickstarter. And well FD You guys are getting further and further away from it.
I see almost the exact opposite to you. I see step by step the game getting filled out. It has to be something about perspectives. I get completely confused when I read posts like this. I don't want to come off dismissive. You are convinced of what you say. I am just at a loss.
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In advance: sorry for my english, i's not my native language [wink]
Totally agree with the original post.
I am not a player that wants all and now, I like working hard if I see a result at the end of the tunnel, (IE ranking Imperial or Fed to get the last ships), but at the moment it's not the case, the amount of RGN invilved is ridicolous, yesterday for example I grinded materials for 4 hours, only to discard all the results at the end...
I have lost 4 hours without having any sort of gratification but a big sense of frustration.
I really hope FD will fix this, Elite Dangerous was a fantastic game without this RNG fest.
Totally agree with the original post.
I am not a player that wants all and now, I like working hard if I see a result at the end of the tunnel, (IE ranking Imperial or Fed to get the last ships), but at the moment it's not the case, the amount of RGN invilved is ridicolous, yesterday for example I grinded materials for 4 hours, only to discard all the results at the end...
I have lost 4 hours without having any sort of gratification but a big sense of frustration.
I really hope FD will fix this, Elite Dangerous was a fantastic game without this RNG fest.
Its not off topic. I broke my leg a few years ago and was rehabilitating for almost 2 years, unemployed. Luckily i had medical insurance from my previous job that covered me, but even so.
I played video games every day for long periods of time. My viewpoint on video games and what i thought was or wasn't acceptable was skewed because of this.
I already said anyway, i wasn't assuming he was unemployed or wasnt, just that his statement came across like the viewpoint of a person with large amounts of time on their hands to play. That was the point.
Apologies to any genuine unemployed people, it is a tough time for anyone.
Be still my beating heart! Oh such wonder and excitement does the Galnet bring when she sings her song making the galaxy weep with joy....
![[VR] Mad Mike](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/27/27910.jpg?1553527108){kind=avatar}
whilst i agree with the op, RNG for things like the type of improvement we should expect for our gear should never be random (tho the actual % effectiveness of the improvement can be affected a bit by chance this is fine)****... I actually agree with you, that, whilst not perfect and perhaps some fettling was needed in gamma, I too think gamma earnings was overall superior to what we have in 2.1
i had no issue at all spending 20+hrs in my sidewinder and feel it actually prepared me for the more expensive ships.
*** the good news is come 2.11 this is how it will be so i am happy personally with that change
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This is quite staggering considering in ED, everything is repetitive. They made the game and they're confused that people are doing repetitive actions since that's the only way to make any decent cash in the game? Can I say this again to get the point through - THEY MADE THE GAME NOT US! It's unbelievable to hear them turn around and say "we didn't think people would do the same thing over and over just to get more money to buy more ships! I mean why? Don't they know there's so much to do in our game such as...ummm...errrr......oh - everything is repetitive and grindy!!"
USS's btw are one of the worst things in the game. Load in, load out....load in, load out....wax on, wax off...zzzzzzzzzzz and were only ever a placeholder. Nobody wants to go in and out of RNG USS loading screens and herein lies the issue with RNG. You can get away with it in certain circumstances but when every part of your game is RNG, all you feel like is going from one slot machine to the next. They play differently, a little anyway, but they're pretty much all the same game. The Engineer thing exemplifies this reliance on it by literally showing you the slot machine spinning or the dice rolling. How FDev can be confused by this is beyond me.
Just to make a tiny addition to this - you could have known locations of minerals or you could go looking for new deposits. Known locations would give you only a certain quality of unobtanium with a small chance of a high quality piece. New locations would need to be found, but the chance of high quality deposits goes up.
Both of these use RNG but it's disguised behind something called "real life" so it blends in. You then scrap the stupid wheel of fortune replacing it in the quality of stuff you find. Better quality stuff gives you better gear.
All that's going to happen with the current method is that people will just keep trying. One day they're going to get a really good roll that's almost maxed out - this is inevitable by the fact of chance alone and repetitive trying. One way feels more realistic and productive the other feels like wheel of fortune but in the end, you'll end up with everyone near max rolls and everyone will be the same again.
Nitek [pl]
Banned
7 hours grind for 4 rerolls on class 4 shields. Rng played a joke on me and all rolls went down the drain - shield was worse than my c3 :]
Well done for being the only person in this thread to not understand what's being discussed