Discuss AI here (After Engineer mods removal)

[Ziljan]

No. Not on a mission. Undermining and only pulling wanted ships. Twice the super NPC has forced me to run from multiple jumps away to help out my wings.

Gather up 90+ merits in an undermining system. Fly around. Eventually a message pops like "They told me you would be here" or "There is a big bounty on you" which is often very low or nothing.

The AI changes for the normal NPC are fine. Eliminate this super NPC with the characteristics above and we could get back to the fun. Or not.

Undermining "wanted" ships? That's frankly not even possible. Those Red Letters don't say "Wanted." They say "Hostile". You were attacking hostile ships in their home turf, which is illegal, and you're racking up a bounty on yourself, and worse, gaining negative reputation thatsurvives your deaths, which makes you KOS in that system if it goes negative enough. You are basically a pariah in that system, and so they are sending waves of Elite hitmen to "expunge" you. As any good government would do to a psychopath that was on a killing spree.

I suspect the degree of bounty hounding is also tied to the security rating of the system you are Undermining. Try undermining a border system with low security.

 

[Rankaze]

I see what you're getting at, and that is one vision. My vision for HAZRES' is a proving ground for solo CMDR's to test their might mano y mano. Every other RES is swamped with Sec ships applying their craft. I think a HAZRES should be a haven for solo CMDR's who appreciate a good fair fight, or 5 or 10 [yesnod]

Sure wings can go in and mop up too, but I think it should be solo friendly as well.

As I've seen it, HazRES should be a place where a highly skilled Commannder can be selective about his targets and cautious about his approach, and do well, and a place where a wing can come in and wreak havoc

 

[Earth Ultimatum IV.]

I'm flying a A-classed Viper MkIII and I see a wanted NPC Anaconda. Level NOVICE.
He's ignoring me so I position myself behind his engines and I start shooting. The anaconda immidiatelly starts turning and it's actually out turning my Viper even though I have 4 pips in engines. I'm slightly more agile only if I use FA OFF like crazy, but really just by a tiny bit.

Are you sure you didn't buff the AI even more? Because two days ago I could out-turn a DEADLY levelled anaconda with my own unengineered Anaconda.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Zac has posted a new AI thread: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=258662

 

[Jypson]

As I've seen it, HazRES should be a place where a highly skilled Commannder can be selective about his targets and cautious about his approach, and do well, and a place where a wing can come in and wreak havoc

Indeed, our visions are one and the same

 

[Banana's_Are_Good_For_You]

I am no longer checking to see if I'm wearing the brown pants.
I have yet to encounter the worst case scenarios since the update though.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Zac has posted a new AI thread: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=258662

So FD discovered bug and it is just made game randomly generate NPCs which it shouldn't supposed to be exist.

 

[howardtay]

You know every USS has threat levels right? Unless it was Threat 0 or 1, this didn't sound like smart idea.

Why not? this is exactly what I used to do in the previous version, and quite successfully occasional fighter but that was O.K, if you are now going to say that this has all changed with the 2.1/1.6 update, then I repeat, this is not the game that I originally purchased, I would prefer the old game back please. I only play Solo I have never played Open and don't particularly want to, I just wanted to enjoy the experience, and now I can't do that anymore, so what's the point?

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

I am no longer checking to see if I'm wearing the brown pants.
I have yet to encounter the worst case scenarios since the update though.

You've been extremely Lucky then. Enjoy.

 

[XRB]

I haven't been able to test out the new new NPCs yet and likely won't be able to for a bit, so this might not seem like a fair assessment...

But based on my previous encounters with the older new NPCs which offered no real challenge to me that wasn't on my terms and didn't involve accidentally biting off more than I could chew, even with them having the Engineered mods and me not having them, I voted "too easy" for me.

That being said, any upgrade to the AI and enjoyment taking NPCs on compared to 2.0 is appreciated. It's quite a silly person indeed who would expect a game to be tailor made just to suit their tastes.

...

In the interest of science and constructive feedback, my ranks are Expert, Merchant, Pioneer, and Helpless.

This is the ship I usually pilot and what I often do in the game. → https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=175238&page=3&p=2828837&viewfull=1#post2828837

Dear Sir,

I am in the process of writing a textbook on hipocrasy. Would you at all mind if I utilize your post as a excellent example?

I believe readers would enjoy the element where you're happy that a substantial element of the game has changed to be more to your liking, when compared against the claim that people shouldn't expect a product to be tailored to them.

Bravo

 

[howardtay]

Big multipurpose ships are unusable right now if not fitted for 100% combat
My mining corvette was again destroyed by deadly NPC conda. I am using 2 huge gimbaled pulses and 2 small rail guns, 1600MJ shields, chaff, pointdefense. The combat started nice for me. I downed conda shields allready working on hull to 50% then my shields go down and in matter of seconds hull down to 0%

Another encounter with dangerous imperial eagle... me tried everything, FA off boost turning, flying forwards, backwards... couldnt get him on sights for long enough to destroy the eagle. I downed the eagle shields like 5 times, just coudnt finish it. I had to disengage from combat when my hull was down to 70%

2 corvette insurance in 2 days down 46mil thats for me at least 8h of play time to get back those credits, even if I wanted to get the credits back it will be just impossible in current environment

That was enough for me, signing off for now and near future until FD will come to senses again

Total agreement from me, I'm doing the same, I may not come back let the Adrenaline Junkies have their game, they win.

 

[Mixxi Pal]

My experience so far (as stated in another thread) was in a High RES last night with my wingwoman (neither of us own Horizons) and if I'm being brutally honest, I'd say it was a tad too easy, in that, we're both utter garbage with medium sized ships (Cobra, DBS) yet were taking out high level Pythons, Dropships, Clippers without a great deal of trouble, albeit with occasional assistance from the security guys.

I kept saying to her, "We're probably going to die here or at least be forced to run" but... it never really got too hairy except for the first Clipper we faced which was firing weird stuff I'm not sure I'd ever encountered before (and we tend to stick our faces right in there to see the pretty lights).

One Dangerous Dropship we fought didn't fire a single shot throughout the whole fight as far as I could tell. Oh! And I fought a Python on my own which was in a wing (it was invisible to my friend ) and the biggest problem was how long it took me to kill it with my wee (yet manly) guns. I should have been battered as I boosted into it a couple of times and knocked my own shields off.

It was great fun overall but in the back of my mind I feel, we probably shouldn't be able to leave a High RES after 20 minutes with close to 1 million credits and our ships pretty much intact, considering, as I said, we are UTTER garbage at flying. Especially her with her wee fingers. She can't use the thrusters at all. She doesn't even have chaff. Tsssk.

 

[Rankaze]

My experience so far (as stated in another thread) was in a High RES last night with my wingwoman (neither of us own Horizons) and if I'm being brutally honest, I'd say it was a tad too easy, in that, we're both utter garbage with medium sized ships (Cobra, DBS) yet were taking out high level Pythons, Dropships, Clippers without a great deal of trouble, albeit with occasional assistance from the security guys.

I kept saying to her, "We're probably going to die here or at least be forced to run" but... it never really got too hairy except for the first Clipper we faced which was firing weird stuff I'm not sure I'd ever encountered before (and we tend to stick our faces right in there to see the pretty lights).

One Dangerous Dropship we fought didn't fire a single shot throughout the whole fight as far as I could tell. Oh! And I fought a Python on my own which was in a wing (it was invisible to my friend ) and the biggest problem was how long it took me to kill it with my wee (yet manly) guns. I should have been battered as I boosted into it a couple of times and knocked my own shields off.

It was great fun overall but in the back of my mind I feel, we probably shouldn't be able to leave a High RES after 20 minutes with close to 1 million credits and our ships pretty much intact, considering, as I said, we are UTTER garbage at flying. Especially her with her wee fingers. She can't use the thrusters at all. She doesn't even have chaff. Tsssk.

To be fair, winging up covers a multitude of piloting sins.

HIRES can still be quite difficult solo if you get foolishly aggressive. I managed to get an Imperial Eagle blown out from under me by foolishly engaging a mere Master in a Python without support - it only took one maneuvering gaffe, allowing him to focus all his guns on me, and I was done for (Not at all a complaint - I got what I deserved!), and I nearly lost a Courier when I lit into an Elite Anaconda thinking the cops would help, only to discover they'd just engaged another target. It took some of my best flying to pull that one out!

I daresay that if I took one of my friends to HIRES with me, we would casually romp everything there... that's what being in a wing does (and is one of the reasons HazRES exists).

 

[Ziljan]

I don't want to become a combat expert

Why not? this is exactly what I used to do in the previous version, and quite successfully occasional fighter but that was O.K, if you are now going to say that this has all changed with the 2.1/1.6 update, then I repeat, this is not the game that I originally purchased, I would prefer the old game back please. ...

Let me get this right, you "don't want to become an expert at combat" and yet you expect to be able to wander into any situation, in any ship, and come out unscathed? And you feel this reasonable because the 2.0 NPCs were lobotomized by spin-of-death bugs? Which you miss and want back?

I am sorry, that is not a reasonable expectation of safety in any game. If you go into a dragon's cave, expect dragons, not bunnies.

The bunny cave is in the USS in the high sec system. Enjoy

 

[WR3ND]

I think the main difference is that some people don't want a real challenge when playing the game, and some people do.

If everything, at least all the more difficult things, only optionally occur on the player's terms, it isn't a real challenge. I doubt it every will be, but at least I'm still having a great time playing the game, and even more so now after the update.

...

On the other hand, some people may just be upset that their main profit and rank advancement schemes in the game aren't going as easily as they might prefer. This was never really a concern for me, so it seems rather foreign to me.

 

[FX2K]

This could work, but it should be optional. The game is currently already bombarding us with obvious information. Tool tips should always be optional. But maybe default to start, since clearly about 20% of players can't find all the buttons on their joystick without looking yet.

I'm pretty sure he meant whilst the orange spinning ship is displayed... which I think is a good idea.
A few random tips on the loading screen won't get in the way and can usually be pretty helpful....

 

[Cheops1975]

Let me get this right, you "don't want to become an expert at combat" and yet you expect to be able to wander into any situation, in any ship, and come out unscathed? And you feel this reasonable because the 2.0 NPCs were lobotomized by spin-of-death bugs? Which you miss and want back?

I am sorry, that is not a reasonable expectation of safety in any game. If you go into a dragon's cave, expect dragons, not bunnies.

The bunny cave is in the USS in the high sec system. Enjoy

Or they could have just fixed the spin of death and tweaked aggression and competence a bit based on their level instead of gluing AI ships directly onto the asses of people flying ships larger than a FDL while firing chaff on 10 second timers to make the turrets needed to deal with these increased agility AI useless.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

im seeing posts still from people saying that large multipurpose ships are not usable. it also occurs to me now, from discussions with people in the previous AI thread (who were kind enough to suggest alternate loadouts when i posted my asp loadout one of which im using now); before it was possible to set up a ship to do a bit of everything. now a lot of people seem to feel you have to specialise them to do what you are going to do right there. so if you are planning to explore you need to optimise for that and go explore. same for trade. im not someone who wants that myself, but thats not what im getting at.

when i was struggling up from sidewinder (without the farm res trick i did it the hard way by trading and selling scans and the odd combat bounty when interdicted) i didnt grind so long i could buy my cobra mk iii and then outfitit on the spot. i ground enough to get it and get the most important parts - so i could switch and use the greater cargo capacity to buy the rest of the spec i needed. is that going to be possible? will new players stick around considering

a)they dont start in a sidewinder fully outfitted with the best modules and this makes surviving a lot harder, before they can upgrade it;

b) they dont want to grind in that any more than they have to; so they want to switch as quickly as possibly - meaning they wont want to save up until they can buy and fully outfit the next ship which has far better cargo capacity.

i know people are going to suggest them farming res again with sys authority help, but maybe they dont want to. or maybe say well they dont have to go cobra they can go adder first but i looked at that and its not much less grinding that with the sidewinder was what i decided. once i got the cobra 3 i was having more fun, and it wasnt such a chore to get the asp - indeed i kept the cobra a long time in storage until i really needed to finish my asp build in a hurry. the asp was just a lot tougher once shields went down. i had more survival time to judge in it and i got more cargo capacity also. im thinking that the number of viable configs is reduced at the moment and will be worse with the mods when they come back, and flying a part built ship is no longer viable that makes the grind to get a better ship more boring because longer.

 

[howardtay]

Let me get this right, you "don't want to become an expert at combat" and yet you expect to be able to wander into any situation, in any ship, and come out unscathed? And you feel this reasonable because the 2.0 NPCs were lobotomized by spin-of-death bugs? Which you miss and want back?

I am sorry, that is not a reasonable expectation of safety in any game. If you go into a dragon's cave, expect dragons, not bunnies.

The bunny cave is in the USS in the high sec system. Enjoy

That's exactly right, and exactly how I'v been playing this game since I purchased it, I have dropped into lots of USS points since I started playing and picked up stuff for sale on the black market, I've gone in and fought NPC's, sometimes I've won and sometimes they got me or I've managed to escape by the skin of teeth, but the gameplay is now different since the 2.1/1.6 update and Frontiers revision of the initial 2.1/1.6 problems. You seem to be under the impression that everyone that plays this game wants to spend all their time in conflict, and I understand that many do, but I'm not one of them, does that mean that I should be prevented from just enjoying the ED experience without having to watch my adrenalin levels? I didn't have to before the 2.1/1.6 update so this update is now preventing me from playing the game that I originally purchased, and that game for me was fine, it was exactly what I wanted and it fulfilled my expectations. O.K it may not have fulfilled yours, so I presume my preferences or choices have no relevance, yes?

 

[Miko_Stargazer]

Undermining "wanted" ships? That's frankly not even possible. Those Red Letters don't say "Wanted." They say "Hostile". You were attacking hostile ships in their home turf, which is illegal, and you're racking up a bounty on yourself, and worse, gaining negative reputation thatsurvives your deaths, which makes you KOS in that system if it goes negative enough. You are basically a pariah in that system, and so they are sending waves of Elite hitmen to "expunge" you. As any good government would do to a psychopath that was on a killing spree.

I suspect the degree of bounty hounding is also tied to the security rating of the system you are Undermining. Try undermining a border system with low security.

Undermining against wanted ships is actually possible, though it's likely a bug. You gain merits for any enemy PP ship you destroy in a system. For example if you're in a Mahon control system, there will also be Sirius ships and Kumo Crew and Federal Agents flying around, which tend to have bounties on them because they are in enemy territory. Killing these ships still gives you merits and still counts towards undermining the Mahon system. Like I said, it's probably a bug or oversight, but this is currently a possible strategy.

 

[killerofstars]

I don't find the new AI fun at all. It constantly outmanuvers whatever I'm in. (despite yes, thruster turns, FA off manuvers and pip management) I recently stripped everything off my FAS, interdictors, everything, save guns and a shield cell bank, in an attempt to create something that can pitch fast enough to have a fighting chance. I shouldn't have to do that. There shouldn't only be one right loadout anymore.

I desperately miss the old AI. Everyone is acting the the old AI was never threatening, but remember, it killed people before! All the time!! Yes, the old AI was easy if you were flying a RES and 50 cops were already firing at it so it never even knew you were there. But get into a one on one fight with it, and things were different.

Frontier, this isn't fun.