Discuss AI here (After Engineer mods removal)

[Rankaze]

As a note: at the time I played, it appeared that not all NPC mods had been removed - I did get one thermal attack warning. Only one, though, whereas usually it was every second or third NPC seemed to have one.

For the long term, once the bugs are resolved, I'd like to see some NPC's with mods, just not tons of them.

 

[Mazhurg]

Did 3 haz RES trip last night EST.
- Best part: I accidentally sprayed an elite MINER python in a hazres TWICE while we're both attacking the same conda. After the conda dead, he did NOT aggro to me. He just went on his way while I was turning pale as my shield were practically gone and I got no more SCB....

Was this solo?

Haz Res should be akin to death sentence to solo players, or at least near so. To go trice with success means either that I bow to your skills or that Mom still has more to teach her minions.

BTW good post.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

I take it the plan is to put back the uber weapons after the bugs are sorted? I hope not.....
i don't find the inclusion of insta-death weapons appealing at all, on an npc ship or my own.... Where's the fun in combat, smuggling or trading if at any given moment- Boom- rebuy screen! That's not elite dangerous, it's elite lottery.
I love the concept of the engineers update but I'm a bit worried about the affects it's going to have. ED was always a tricky game with regard to balance with frequent rebalancing done on ships, missiles, torpedoes etc. Add in to the mix module modding and,,,,,,, well this could end up being a massive can of worms in the end that may create more work for the devs.

As far as I can tell, going for a spin in anything other than my FAS may be suicidal ��

The instadeath are the bugs being squashed. They should not happen even with engineer mods on NPCs (or players).

 

[Derath]

I've been attacked by modded weapons all day, but you can feel the lack of the other mods its like everything is 20% easier.

I think its in the right place at the moment, but it probably won't be when I actually get some relevant mods hopefully they put some mild scaling into the formula so they get tweaked very slowly upwards.

 

[howardtay]

The game I purchased at the beginning of the year was great, it allowed me to trade backwards and forwards between stations, occasionally I would be interdicted and I would lose, but the vast majority of the time I would WIN! like everyone else I began with a Sidewinder, after weeks and weeks of trading and completing missions I managed to upgrade to a better ship, constantly improving my profits and this continued slowly until eventually I managed to collect enough credits to afford a Python, I then spent more weeks trading doing missions and exploring and earning credits so that I could upgrade my Python with all 'A' grade internals and not being a great combat pilot, I choose all turreted weapons and these worked really well for me, although occasionally they failed and I would die, but this was fairly rare, but that was acceptable I knew that this was part of the ED mechanics.

Then the 2.1/1.6 update arrived... My Python, the one I have spent so much time building is killed within 3 to 4 seconds, rebuy cost 12m crs so back to my regular station to rebuy and out again with cargo, and WOW! same again another 12m crs gone and cargo, so back to station, exit and don't play again, realising that this could be a 2.1/1.6 bug, I follow all the Frontier Forum comments, lots of anger, nasty remarks, insults etc what a wonderful community.

No longer a game to enjoy, Frontier then announce that they recognise that there is a problem and remove the bugs from these NPC's, so I return to the game I really love, thinking that I can now continue playing the game that I originally purchased, what a stupid person am I, I should have known, I set off to do my regular run with my regular cargo, only get interdicted once and just manage to fight my way to the station I am heading for, result I think I have my game back!!! so returning empty back to my home station I see a USS and decide to investigate, maybe some scrap or goods to collect to supplement my cargo run. No sooner do I drop out of supercruise into the USS and 3 ships kill me, didn't even get a chance to see who they where or what type of ships the only thing I noticed was 3 yellow blips on the radar.

So, sadly, that's me done! I didn't buy and play this game to be destroyed everytime I went trading or exploring, it was really hard and time consuming to get to the Python, the game has lost it's fun it's no longer an enjoyable experience, unless you enjoy the fear of being attacked all the time and don't mind losing your valuable ships until you end up with zero crs and back in the Sidewinder, so absolutely no progression in this game anymore. You will all eventually end up back in Sidewinders.

So I wish you all well in your lovely little Sidewinders, have fun?, I'm off now to see if I can find a suitable alternative to Elite Dangerous if not I'll just keep playing FSX.

Bye, bye Everybody, Bye, bye

 

[FX2K]

<snip>
Then the 2.1/1.6 update arrived... My Python, the one I have spent so much time building is killed within 3 to 4 seconds, rebuy cost 12m crs so back to my regular station to rebuy and out again with cargo, and WOW! same again another 12m crs gone and cargo, so back to station, exit and don't play again, realising that this could be a 2.1/1.6 bug, I follow all the Frontier Forum comments, lots of anger, nasty remarks, insults etc what a wonderful community.<snip>

If the reason for your loss was down to the bug, then open a ticket.. Frontier may credit your in-game account.
I am a non-combat player.. but I appreciate that before, the AI where dumb... laughable even. The AI changes are definitely for the better, IMO.. just those insta-kill super mods they had were far too popular and OP.

 

[hookandsling]

@howardtay

Not sure if you know: You can scan USS now to see what they are before you drop.
They even have a Threat Level.

 

[Derath]

On the topic of AI difficulty as well FD should probably do something about 4 pips shields, its silly that the EHP of your ship with 4 pips is so vastly higher than it is at 2 and i'm convinced this is where most of the "I got destroyed instantly" (that aren't from bugs) come from, the truth is nothing trashes you even close to instantly with 4 pips, but if you run 2 pips and you get focused for 10s your probably dead, especially if you play the game in a relatively normal way, don't repair integrity and don't use military hull.

The default ratios for my hull to shields is something like 20/80, so 4 pips shields extends my maximum lifetime by just about double. I've long thought that was a bit overkill but if they wanted to leave it as it is they could use some loading tooltips that say Hey! Your shields last 150% longer if you use 4 pips! For the people who probably don't realise just how important 4 pips sys is.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

The game I purchased at the beginning of the year was great, it allowed me to trade backwards and forwards between stations, occasionally I would be interdicted and I would lose, but the vast majority of the time I would WIN! like everyone else I began with a Sidewinder, after weeks and weeks of trading and completing missions I managed to upgrade to a better ship, constantly improving my profits and this continued slowly until eventually I managed to collect enough credits to afford a Python, I then spent more weeks trading doing missions and exploring and earning credits so that I could upgrade my Python with all 'A' grade internals and not being a great combat pilot, I choose all turreted weapons and these worked really well for me, although occasionally they failed and I would die, but this was fairly rare, but that was acceptable I knew that this was part of the ED mechanics.

Then the 2.1/1.6 update arrived... My Python, the one I have spent so much time building is killed within 3 to 4 seconds, rebuy cost 12m crs so back to my regular station to rebuy and out again with cargo, and WOW! same again another 12m crs gone and cargo, so back to station, exit and don't play again, realising that this could be a 2.1/1.6 bug, I follow all the Frontier Forum comments, lots of anger, nasty remarks, insults etc what a wonderful community.

No longer a game to enjoy, Frontier then announce that they recognise that there is a problem and remove the bugs from these NPC's, so I return to the game I really love, thinking that I can now continue playing the game that I originally purchased, what a stupid person am I, I should have known, I set off to do my regular run with my regular cargo, only get interdicted once and just manage to fight my way to the station I am heading for, result I think I have my game back!!! so returning empty back to my home station I see a USS and decide to investigate, maybe some scrap or goods to collect to supplement my cargo run. No sooner do I drop out of supercruise into the USS and 3 ships kill me, didn't even get a chance to see who they where or what type of ships the only thing I noticed was 3 yellow blips on the radar.

So, sadly, that's me done! I didn't buy and play this game to be destroyed everytime I went trading or exploring, it was really hard and time consuming to get to the Python, the game has lost it's fun it's no longer an enjoyable experience, unless you enjoy the fear of being attacked all the time and don't mind losing your valuable ships until you end up with zero crs and back in the Sidewinder, so absolutely no progression in this game anymore. You will all eventually end up back in Sidewinders.

So I wish you all well in your lovely little Sidewinders, have fun?, I'm off now to see if I can find a suitable alternative to Elite Dangerous if not I'll just keep playing FSX.

Bye, bye Everybody, Bye, bye

You know every USS has threat levels right? Unless it was Threat 0 or 1, this didn't sound like smart idea.

 

[Rankaze]

@howardtay

Not sure if you know: You can scan USS now to see what they are before you drop.
They even have a Threat Level.

Gotta be careful, though. Threat 0 salvage USS in low-sec and anarchy systems may be ambushes.

 

[yodajedifishmaster]

ok bearing in mind i am competent rank and flying this ship in solo:

http://coriolis.io/outfit/asp/25A5A...4054c2i0m2t242f.Iw18WQ==.CwBjEYxAmW+85oksNIg=

my experiences so far since the mods for npcs gone been...

1 expert adder who i ambushed. wasnt much of a fight. he was unshielded and i had in my sights all the time until boom. dont think my kws scan finished on it. btw i am not bounty hunting; i was checking signal sources for mission and he happened to be there.

interdictions; today one master level in an adder. i tried to fight, he just was always getting behind me and chipping away at my shield. couldnt get him in front with boost away he just boost after me immediately, overshoots as im turning to try and face and then turns on a dime and fires at my rear while i stay in the loop trying to shoot back. may have been spawned by the delivery mission i was on. eventtually after a minute i boosted away while i still had shields and low wake. he did not follow and i made it to my destination.

trading some palladium i got interdicted by a ship i think was a viper mk 4 and we got into a turning battle. after a minute or so i got him in sights and managed to sustain fire on drop his shields and pulverise. at this point i notice another ship has appeared and attacking from behind. turn to deal with and he makes a mistake. no shields fairly easy kill. i was too busy though, to note either npcs combat rank. only glanced to see they were wanted and part of a gang. had to concentrate on fighting.

my impressions thus far; maybe if i was better managing pips with the master adder i could have pipped to engines to get in my sights. i think pip micromanagement is now more important. the other two ships it was more challenging and i enjoyed the fight but it wasnt overly difficult. i have to assume they were lower combat rank than me. if they had coordinated their attack it might have been trickier, than dealing with them one at a time. if i could have gotten weapons on the adder things might have gone differently but i reached the point in that fight where it was flee, or take damage that i would not have gotten the credits back to repair it from him. if i had wanted to use FA-off again that would maybe have forced the adder to try something else but its something im not sure how to do with a controller and may caused ME more problems than it solved.

im enjoying the game again...but a little nervously. its definitely more fun for me. i just hope they get the AI sorted so the new players arent always getting hammered by high level npcs.

i voted just right but on balance maybe i should have waited a few more days and gotten more of an impression. just right is my initial gut feeling though given the ship i am in and the level of ability i have and the combat rank - and using an xbox 360 controller (im on windows 10 laptop though). so that needs to be taken into account. also wish to add i find emphasis on multiple changing of pips in combat as being rather like brake balance in formula one - drivers messing around on the steering wheel changine buttons before every corner to maximise the brake balance. i dont think we should be needing to fiddle with pips moment to moment. a few times yes but not all the time to get a miniscule shield strength while we turn then a miniscule engine performance to get them in sights then to weapons (because we have pips to everything else until they are in sight) - not terribly realistic in a combat situation. throttle and flying should be more important.

 

[Smaste]

I've been enjoying myself a lot more since the engineers mods were reduced. I don't believe they were removed.

I've had impulse attacks and thermal attacks within the last hour. The AI is still quite tricky to keep up with as a self-proclaimed below-average player, and if I'm not careful or cautious about my engagements I find myself limping home muttering angry things to myself about how I'm gonna get back at them.

It's certainly a lot more difficult than the previous iteration of the AI, however there still are many issues amongst the AI.

Firstly, psychopaths... Psychopathy might be a thing in the real world, but come on, just randomly getting attacked? Breaks the immersion IMO.

Secondly interdictions, PLEASE look into this. I was floating around in my Anaconda, when I was suddenly interdicted by a random ASP Explorer (need I say more? lol) anyway, the guy said: "All I want is all you have!" so I decided to check my inventory (0 out of 404 slots). The next thing he said was "I'm gonna boil you up!" seriously? Firstly, he's going to risk a wanted level interdicting me without even knowing if I actually have any cargo, he's going to interdict an Anaconda ***alone*** and then he's going to start blasting away because he's a firm subscriber of the YOLO belief? Without even scanning me to make sure it's worth risking his hull? Please look into this at the very least.

Third issue in my mind. AI not firing back, sometimes their hardpoints aren't deployed, othertimes they are and they just sit there swirling around taunting. What?

Fourth AI not acknowledging incoming fire. It's rare, but it happens...

Fifth High RES seem to have an alarming amount of security in them. Honestly, they had enough to win a Conflict Zone. I don't mind cleaning up free kills but this was like sending the bloody SAS to deal with a 16 year old trying to mug someone. FOUR Anacondas? Sign me up for the Federal police force, and I prefer the Empire!

You know, now that I think about it, with the Empire n all, am I the only one who thinks the Majestic Class sucks compared to the Farragut? Idk if that's relevant but I think that needs to be looked at.

 

[matemaster]

Big multipurpose ships are unusable right now if not fitted for 100% combat
My mining corvette was again destroyed by deadly NPC conda. I am using 2 huge gimbaled pulses and 2 small rail guns, 1600MJ shields, chaff, pointdefense. The combat started nice for me. I downed conda shields allready working on hull to 50% then my shields go down and in matter of seconds hull down to 0%

Another encounter with dangerous imperial eagle... me tried everything, FA off boost turning, flying forwards, backwards... couldnt get him on sights for long enough to destroy the eagle. I downed the eagle shields like 5 times, just coudnt finish it. I had to disengage from combat when my hull was down to 70%

2 corvette insurance in 2 days down 46mil thats for me at least 8h of play time to get back those credits, even if I wanted to get the credits back it will be just impossible in current environment

That was enough for me, signing off for now and near future until FD will come to senses again

 

[Smaste]

mining corvette

[woah]
hahaha a mining corvette! I gotta see that one in person! Sorry [haha]

 

[Jypson]

Was this solo?

Haz Res should be akin to death sentence to solo players, or at least near so. To go trice with success means either that I bow to your skills or that Mom still has more to teach her minions.

BTW good post.

> Say what?!

Take me out to the black
Tell them I ain't comin' back
Burn the land and boil the sea
You can't take my HAZRES from me

 

[howardtay]

If the reason for your loss was down to the bug, then open a ticket.. Frontier may credit your in-game account.
I am a non-combat player.. but I appreciate that before, the AI where dumb... laughable even. The AI changes are definitely for the better, IMO.. just those insta-kill super mods they had were far too popular and OP.

I did open a ticket, I've opened a few, one for a refund for Horizons which I purchased just before the update and they refunded this within a few days, which I thought was great service (and I'm not being sarcastic) the others where concerning the new AI, and the last one was for the loss of 2 x Pythons and cargos/missions for which I have yet to recieve a reply from Frontier, not that it matters now.

I am not an Adrenaline Junkie, all I ever wanted from this game was to fly around this wonderfully detailed Galaxy that Frontier have given us, and progress through the different and varied ships trying different loadouts, exploring this vast game, maybe an occasional bit of combat but at least combat with a good chance of winning.

Quite frankly, I can't be bothered anymore, I am 67 years old Ex IT Consultant who really did enjoy this game. Frontier made an exceptionally good game graphically speaking, it is probably the best game that I have ever played, I thought the same when I played the original Elite (which was way ahead of it's time) on the old BBC Model 'B' many years ago, but it looks like Frontier are listening to the adrenalin junkies. I want a game that is relaxing, easy and laid back, and this is what it was when I purchased it, if I could have my own personal copy of the previous version, I would be a happy man, but that's not going to happen, so sadly I'm out of here, but thank you for your comment.

 

[MottiKhan]

I haven't been hit with a magic NPC since Sunday, so before the server side change. I'm getting more lower ranked NPCs now and maybe that's the difference. It doesn't seem to be matching to the player's combat rank.

 

[the100thmonkey]

I have to congratulate the Mistress, for her minions, even without the mods-of-doom, are damned slippery bar stewards.

The pitch wars are simple enough in a Vulture, but in an FdL you have to really think about getting on their yaw axis and, if needs be, grinding your opponent down slowly.

 

[Smaste]

Haz Res should be akin to death sentence to solo players, or at least near so.

hazardous
ˈhazədəs/
adjective
risky; dangerous.
"we work in hazardous conditions"
Hazardous ≠ death sentence

 

[matemaster]

[woah]
hahaha a mining corvette! I gotta see that one in person! Sorry [haha]

you have some mental problems ?

 

[Alpha087]

I think my problem is more with the current state of ship and equipment balancing than it is with the AI anymore. The removal of mods gives me a fighting chance, but the current state of balance means that the ship I spent hundreds of hours grinding to get is still more or less ineffective.