The Star Citizen Thread v 4

[SpaceFort]

*shrug* 'Kay?

Doesn't really matter. A different opinion leading to a group with no ties to the official processes of the game, to decide they have different feelings and a different reaction. It's unfortunate, but in no way an indication of the status of the project.

Still not a scam or 'assuredly doomed' as some might like to think.

 

[Zyll Goliat]

Yeeeeah.... About what you just typed....

(Bold type added by me for emphasis)

One of the biggest German StarCitizen Fansites and Radio goes offline.

Source: German (translation below)

Greetings Star Citizens.

As you've probably noticed the amount of updates of Star Citizen News Radio has dropped significantly. This the reason for this, among other things, is that Mera and I have increasingly lost interest in Star Citizen. We are both Golden Ticket Owner and have been with SC from the very beginning. Unfortunately it became increasingly clear that at SC promises of CIG and the reality are very far apart. Of course, we know that there currently is an Alpha but we also see that SC has big problems at every nook and cranny, and it is very difficult to eliminate those. As we know, this is not only our opinion, but also many other Backers of the first hour think this way. Also, the constantly increasing commercialization displeases us both CIG (permanent concept sales) and in the SC "Fan Area", and the behaviour of individuals from the community toward people such as AngryBot (threats against him and his family). This can not be tolerated. People, SC is just a game. No more and no less.

A fan page as Star Citizen News Radio requires a very high time and effort to keep constantly updated (Search News, translations do so) but we are currently not ready to make this commitment for Star Citizen. Of course we are also aware that with the end of SCNR the (probably) only and really critical and independent from clans, organizations and CIG, German speaking SC Fan page will go offline and therefore we have long hesitated to take this step. We have invested much time and money in this project and therefore we it is really not easy to announce the end of SCNR.

We now want to thank all the SCNR SC fans that helped to build one of the largest German fan sites. Of course we want to thank those who have supported us over the past three years with news, translations, their knowledge and commitment to us. We deliberately refrain from naming them all individually, because it would be very sad if one of them would fall through the cracks, and this could happen to easily with the large number of them.



THANK YOU VERY MUCH TO ALL OF YOU!



Fly save!

Ty for this...good read....Feel srry for this folks....they invested a lot of their time and money in it.....mainly for nothing.....

 

[Electrofreak]

We've seen the playerbase go through various stages of unrest. Last fall, a lot of fans were losing interest and getting worried. Then December and Alpha 2.0 came and there was a collective sigh of relief. Now, 6 months later, we're going through much of that. Doing missions to earn money and buy new weapons or armor or duds for your character and all is great, but many of us are looking forward to seeing the system expand, to see the procedural stuff make it in.

This was a fun sandbox six months ago, but it's starting to feel cramped. We want to see the walls pushed out and new tools dropped in. Hopefully the start of persistence opens the doors to other mechanics in the near future.

Or, CIG is so far behind on SQ42 that PU development resources have been reassigned. That would suck and people will be upset at a lack of visible progress (there's some of that going on right now) but CIG has promises to fulfill and I'd rather they deliver on one thing and start on the next than drag out both.

That's my take.

 

[Asp Explorer]

It's unfortunate, but in no way an indication of the status of the project.

Don't they make weekly videos showcasing the status of the project and how much progress has been made since the last video?

Wasn't there one recently that was essentially identical to what they showed off six months ago or so? In a project as openly developed as this, it's great that we have such status indicators that are as easy to read as litmus paper

 

[FerinexuS]

Sorry, I know i'm sounding like and old grumpy dude, and that is true, I'm old. However this my fellow space game friend, is turrets in space. 100 % nose on target no need to position yourself or do anything.

I like the airplane in space model a lot more, from a game point of view. Using the word realistic in both SC and ED is kind of silly.

My personally reference are more like CQC, position here is everything.

Well it's just a matter of personal opinion/taste I guess, for instance I dislike the auto-aim in Elite, but understand that it's a choice that allows for a more flight-manouvering centric model.

IMO line of sight is very important in both games as we can see in some of these moves between asteroids:

[video=youtube;opMGRIpUbO8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opMGRIpUbO8[/video]

But it's way more important in Elite because you can't turn as quick as in SC, giving your 6 is almost sure-death as your video showed. Time to kill was like 3-5 seconds and that, for me, looked a bit arcady when paired with the auto-aim.

I understand that the focus is more on keeping sight on target and the skill is from manoeuvring in a ship/flight model much more restrictive, juggling power between weps/shields, flight assist on/off etc. That depth of gameplay is not present yet in star citizen, or is not currently very viable unless you have voice commands, but one could hope that they want to make it viable since it's a work-in-progress, there's hope and room for improvement.

And that's why I think a lot of people still follow very closely the game despite hating it's current shape, deep down I believe they still have a little ray of hope that it changes more to their liking and they can enjoy the game they backed.

As for lack of progress or content it's not only what is in plain sight , there is indeed a LOT of work under the hood that hasn't been unlocked from the builds, despite being there already, check this thread or use the spoiler bellow: https://forums.robertsspaceindustri...89/unused-content-in-2-3-1-and-sc-progress/p1

Spoiler

CIG and the SC project has often been criticized for delays and a lack of showing progress, but for anyone who journeys through the 2.3.1 files you may have seen quite a few things already. Here are a few things that are in the files in what appears in late or finished levels of details:

• The Pirate Station: The lawless station discussed by the devs is composed of over 4,000 files and has a really interesting design. This decaying space station/megaship (I can't tell which) appears to be surrounded by the wrecks of many ships that have been gutted for components and salvage. The props used for the internal doors/walls/ceilings are distinctly different from Port Olisar. I can't wait to see all this in engine fully textured! The quality and detail of everything makes me certain they have the lawless station already completed they're just waiting for mechanics like persistence to be tested first before full blown pirates vs citizens starts. Well done CIG!!!
• Shubin: I posted some pics of the missile system from here a little while ago. This scary beast of a defense system will ruin many a pirate's day. But there were also a lot of other props
• Nyx: You've already seen the Nyx landing zone preview, but the video doesn't do justice to the level of detail of a number of other assets. I love the work they've done on the market carts to make them look both futuristic as well as fit in with the industrial theme of mining, these things match the concept art perfectly.
• Terra Prime: Where to start...wow? Big? Vast? The city streches on...and on...and on...and on...and on - oh and it is to scale.
• Squadron 42: Chapter 19 - Assault maps. Being S42 I'm not going to reveal anything. There is nothing you can glean about the story itself from the maps (obviously) other than the impressive scale. (I'm betting CIG left this in on purpose as an easter egg)

Not only is there quality but there is also a lot of QUANTITY of work done.

There are just thousands upon thousands of other completed game assets and textures from large asteroid bases to railways to research base props to little glowing buttons with a vast range of textures/materials.

There are over 32,000 object meshes (lod included), over 68,000 textures, over 8,500 animations and over 5,000 audio files with over 3.1 hours of music, dialogue and special effects. What is stunning is that only a fraction of these files are actively used in the current playable build!

We often only give praise (more often criticism) of the ships but really there is just so much more already done.

The body of work produced by the CIG studios and present in the 2.3.1 files is immense, but the thing is they have an 'Exludibur' system which removes another 75GB+ of content. So think about it - there is potentially another 90,000+ meshes, 200,000+ textures, 24,000+ animations and 15,000+ audio files with 9+ hours of music, dialogue and special effects on top of the ones in 2.3.1 which we haven't even seen or heard yet!!!

So next time you're starting to think that CIG isn't making any progress because some feature or some ship isn't yet done, just look and listen to all the other things in the PAK files. Sure you need Blender, the CGF converter and a handful of audio conversion tools but there is a ton of stuff there if you're a curious cat.

Off to bed, nn all

 

[Electrofreak]

Don't they make weekly videos showcasing the status of the project and how much progress has been made since the last video?

Wasn't there one recently that was essentially identical to what they showed off six months ago or so? In a project as openly developed as this, it's great that we have such status indicators that are as easy to read as litmus paper

I'm not personally familiar with what you're referring to. We have certainly seen very cool things demoed that seem perpetually to be in development, but as someone in development myself, I know how that can be.

 

[Rolan]

We've seen the playerbase go through various stages of unrest. Last fall, a lot of fans were losing interest and getting worried. Then December and Alpha 2.0 came and there was a collective sigh of relief. Now, 6 months later, we're going through much of that. Doing missions to earn money and buy new weapons or armor or duds for your character and all is great, but many of us are looking forward to seeing the system expand, to see the procedural stuff make it in.

This was a fun sandbox six months ago, but it's starting to feel cramped. We want to see the walls pushed out and new tools dropped in. Hopefully the start of persistence opens the doors to other mechanics in the near future.

Or, CIG is so far behind on SQ42 that PU development resources have been reassigned. That would suck and people will be upset at a lack of visible progress (there's some of that going on right now) but CIG has promises to fulfill and I'd rather they deliver on one thing and start on the next than drag out both.

That's my take.

I mostly agree with you... though I'm more interested(and concerned) in the "connection" between the mechanics of some roles and the economy(in this you can count the mission system of trading, mining, escort among others).The PG is great but... not a priority for me at least.

 

[Electrofreak]

I mostly agree with you... though I'm more interested(and concerned) in the "connection" between the mechanics of some roles and the economy(in this you can count the mission system of trading, mining, escort among others).The PG is great but... not a priority for me at least.

And here we come to one of the biggest issues within the SC community, everyone wants their favorite features done next, and the developers are just looking at what is most logical to work on. AI is another thing that I'm dying to see, but from the sound of it almost all of that effort is being directed at Squadron 42. Perhaps at some point CIG will have the time to engineer it into the PU, but it's not a priority.

We all talk about Star Citizen as if it's one game, but it's two, and while they overlap in some ways, in many ways they do not, and I don't think CIG was quite ready for how much the two projects have diverged.

 

[Rolan]

And here we come to one of the biggest issues within the SC community, everyone wants their favorite features done next, and the developers are just looking at what is most logical to work on. AI is another thing that I'm dying to see, but from the sound of it almost all of that effort is being directed at Squadron 42. Perhaps at some point CIG will have the time to engineer it into the PU, but it's not a priority.

We all talk about Star Citizen as if it's one game, but it's two, and while they overlap in some ways, in many ways they do not, and I don't think CIG was quite ready for how much the two projects have diverged.

Well, the AI is connected to all the background economy and how these missions, well in reality the whole mission system will work so...

And yeah, though many things overlap right now most of the hard effort is on SQ42. But we shall see...

Stuff

The problem is not the assets, many of us know that there is a lot of work done(many already knew last year about this when the big leak happened), in terms of assets(citys, moons, stations, maybe even planets, ships,etc)... but the mechanics of the different roles is what concerns me.

 

[Monk]

I honestly guess he would be owned in 5 sec in ED if he plays outside solo agains another player.

Nah, an Elite FDL should provide the necessary challenge. MoM has a real sadistic sense of humor

 

[Stigbob]

*shrug* 'Kay?

Doesn't really matter. A different opinion leading to a group with no ties to the official processes of the game, to decide they have different feelings and a different reaction. It's unfortunate, but in no way an indication of the status of the project.

Still not a scam or 'assuredly doomed' as some might like to think.

It's doomed, utterly doomed.

Everything I've seen of the project so far is either empty theory crafting, or knackered. I mean everything from the flight model to the disconnect between the advertising and whats on offer, and don't forgot the insane ship prices, space shopping, birds and fish.

Except marketing they are good at that. Convincing people a single ship in an unfinished game is worth anywhere close to the money being paid, is genius. Or an absolutely dire problem with customer relations, attracting new customers, refunds, negative press coverage and reviews when the game gets released and the minimum viable product gets explained.

CiG have to deliver on their promises, I don't think they (or anyone else) could.

The only definite scam relating to SC is the grey market.

 

[Dr Wookie]

Well it's just a matter of personal opinion/taste I guess, for instance I dislike the auto-aim in Elite, but understand that it's a choice that allows for a more flight-manouvering centric model.

IMO line of sight is very important in both games as we can see in some of these moves between asteroids:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opMGRIpUbO8

But it's way more important in Elite because you can't turn as quick as in SC, giving your 6 is almost sure-death as your video showed. Time to kill was like 3-5 seconds and that, for me, looked a bit arcady when paired with the auto-aim.

I understand that the focus is more on keeping sight on target and the skill is from manoeuvring in a ship/flight model much more restrictive, juggling power between weps/shields, flight assist on/off etc. That depth of gameplay is not present yet in star citizen, or is not currently very viable unless you have voice commands, but one could hope that they want to make it viable since it's a work-in-progress, there's hope and room for improvement.

And that's why I think a lot of people still follow very closely the game despite hating it's current shape, deep down I believe they still have a little ray of hope that it changes more to their liking and they can enjoy the game they backed.

As for lack of progress or content it's not only what is in plain sight , there is indeed a LOT of work under the hood that hasn't been unlocked from the builds, despite being there already, check this thread or use the spoiler bellow: https://forums.robertsspaceindustri...89/unused-content-in-2-3-1-and-sc-progress/p1

Spoiler

CIG and the SC project has often been criticized for delays and a lack of showing progress, but for anyone who journeys through the 2.3.1 files you may have seen quite a few things already. Here are a few things that are in the files in what appears in late or finished levels of details:

• The Pirate Station: The lawless station discussed by the devs is composed of over 4,000 files and has a really interesting design. This decaying space station/megaship (I can't tell which) appears to be surrounded by the wrecks of many ships that have been gutted for components and salvage. The props used for the internal doors/walls/ceilings are distinctly different from Port Olisar. I can't wait to see all this in engine fully textured! The quality and detail of everything makes me certain they have the lawless station already completed they're just waiting for mechanics like persistence to be tested first before full blown pirates vs citizens starts. Well done CIG!!!
• Shubin: I posted some pics of the missile system from here a little while ago. This scary beast of a defense system will ruin many a pirate's day. But there were also a lot of other props
• Nyx: You've already seen the Nyx landing zone preview, but the video doesn't do justice to the level of detail of a number of other assets. I love the work they've done on the market carts to make them look both futuristic as well as fit in with the industrial theme of mining, these things match the concept art perfectly.
• Terra Prime: Where to start...wow? Big? Vast? The city streches on...and on...and on...and on...and on - oh and it is to scale.
• Squadron 42: Chapter 19 - Assault maps. Being S42 I'm not going to reveal anything. There is nothing you can glean about the story itself from the maps (obviously) other than the impressive scale. (I'm betting CIG left this in on purpose as an easter egg)

Not only is there quality but there is also a lot of QUANTITY of work done.

There are just thousands upon thousands of other completed game assets and textures from large asteroid bases to railways to research base props to little glowing buttons with a vast range of textures/materials.

There are over 32,000 object meshes (lod included), over 68,000 textures, over 8,500 animations and over 5,000 audio files with over 3.1 hours of music, dialogue and special effects. What is stunning is that only a fraction of these files are actively used in the current playable build!

We often only give praise (more often criticism) of the ships but really there is just so much more already done.

The body of work produced by the CIG studios and present in the 2.3.1 files is immense, but the thing is they have an 'Exludibur' system which removes another 75GB+ of content. So think about it - there is potentially another 90,000+ meshes, 200,000+ textures, 24,000+ animations and 15,000+ audio files with 9+ hours of music, dialogue and special effects on top of the ones in 2.3.1 which we haven't even seen or heard yet!!!

So next time you're starting to think that CIG isn't making any progress because some feature or some ship isn't yet done, just look and listen to all the other things in the PAK files. Sure you need Blender, the CGF converter and a handful of audio conversion tools but there is a ton of stuff there if you're a curious cat.

http://i.imgur.com/FrJfT9C.png

Off to bed, nn all

If I am reading you correctly, you are saying that you don't approve of ED's auto-aim because it puts more emphasis on piloting skills? Given that ED gives you full direct control of all 6 degrees of freedom, rather than choosing where to point, that is a major difference between ED and SC: SC combat seems to favour those who can aim, while ED combat favours those who can fly. I far prefer flying to aiming . Of course in ED proper, gimballing and turetted weapons are less powerful and more expensive than fixed weapons, and many people with good joysticks prefer fixed weapons; game pad users like me often prefer a bit of gimballing to offset dead zones in the sticks.

As yo say line of sight is very important for both games, but could be a real problem for SC because the fighty ships need obstacles to spice up combat, meaning that action is confined to predefined areas rather than just anywhere.

For what it's worth, the SC flight model does seem considerably improved over AC 0.8, but I couldn't be much worse . And the first person videos look considerably better than third person ones. However, it still doesn't look fun to me right now.

 

[Backer42]

The only definite scam relating to SC is the grey market.

And that thing is entirely fueling it. Once financial authorities stop that entire "grey market" thing, CIG's funding will drop to zero.

Convincing people a single ship in an unfinished game is worth anywhere close to the money being paid, is genius.

CIG's marketing is crap and nobody except a few whales is really convinced. This is just about:

Get "limited" asset on a "concept sale", resell at a higher price.

For most people involved this is solely about money and earning profits. Nobody participating in this gives anything about intrinsic value of SC JPEGs, Bitcoins, Litecoins or whatever limited digital asset they trade. It's just about dollars being made. Nobody there has an interest in a finished game, because a finished game doesn't have concept JPEGs anymore.

 

[Cybermykl]

It's doomed, utterly doomed.

Everything I've seen of the project so far is either empty theory crafting, or knackered. I mean everything from the flight model to the disconnect between the advertising and whats on offer, and don't forgot the insane ship prices, space shopping, birds and fish.

Except marketing they are good at that. Convincing people a single ship in an unfinished game is worth anywhere close to the money being paid, is genius. Or an absolutely dire problem with customer relations, attracting new customers, refunds, negative press coverage and reviews when the game gets released and the minimum viable product gets explained.

CiG have to deliver on their promises, I don't think they (or anyone else) could.

The only definite scam relating to SC is the grey market.

I totally agree. I was a golden ticket holder and a rear admiral with the Constellation class starship in the finest hangar money could buy and all I could see was the promise of a game. I played the Wing Commader Series and the Privateer Series and believed that they could combine the two. I also held the vision that Erin and Chris had about the game. But after almost 2 and half years of waiting I could see the writing on the wall. They are providing an excellent outlet for the devs and creators of a genre of gaming without providing a product for the consumer and the backers of the game. It's almost like they know this and as they continue to collect money from those who are still in rapture over the possibilities of an actual product being released in the forseeable future, I had my ticket punched and got my refund -- all $250 USD of it. I still have a T-shirt and I enjoy wearing it. I still get the newsletter by email and watch the videos. But, I've come to realize that what they are doing amounts to nothing but a Ponzi scheme. That's right, I believe they have created a brilliant ruse to take our golden tickets and create for themselves a GOLDEN PARACHUTE.

 

[bitstorm]

You have to have a package to see it! This was done 12 months ago, I think sometime after that they stopped people posting anywhere who hadn't got packages.

I haven;t got a package

Just get errors when viewing that.

Something has gone wrong.

We've run into a problem and are unable to handle this request right now.
Please check back in a little while.

 

[Electrofreak]

If I am reading you correctly, you are saying that you don't approve of ED's auto-aim because it puts more emphasis on piloting skills? Given that ED gives you full direct control of all 6 degrees of freedom, rather than choosing where to point, that is a major difference between ED and SC: SC combat seems to favour those who can aim, while ED combat favours those who can fly. I far prefer flying to aiming . Of course in ED proper, gimballing and turetted weapons are less powerful and more expensive than fixed weapons, and many people with good joysticks prefer fixed weapons; game pad users like me often prefer a bit of gimballing to offset dead zones in the sticks.

As yo say line of sight is very important for both games, but could be a real problem for SC because the fighty ships need obstacles to spice up combat, meaning that action is confined to predefined areas rather than just anywhere.

For what it's worth, the SC flight model does seem considerably improved over AC 0.8, but I couldn't be much worse . And the first person videos look considerably better than third person ones. However, it still doesn't look fun to me right now.

Uhm, reality check, Star Citizen allows full direct control of all 6 DoF as well.

There are 3 IFCS (Intelligent Flight Control System) modes:

- Decoupled/Coupled Mode is effectively the same thing as Flight Assist Off/On
- G-Safe Mode which enables / disables G-force limitations to allow faster turns (primarily pitch) at the risk of allowing blackout / redout
-ComStab, which is like space traction control to counter lateral drift

These can be enabled and disabled separately to the desired effect.

Additionally there are 3 flight modes:

- Precision (primarily for landing)
- Space Combat Maneuvering (SCM)
- Cruise (low-speed sublight, limited maneuvering)

And Quantum travel for linear intrasystem travel.

Oh and then you've got Boost for your manuevering thrusters and acceleration, and Afterburner for extra velocity.

So, despite your assertion that ED's flight model has a higher skill cap, I beg to differ. I have lots of flight time in both games and while Elite has roll-to-yaw to deal with, the learning curve with Star Citizen starts out shallow but gets very steep as you learn how to fly Decoupled or Coupled with toggles to ComStab and G-Safe as needed during flight, then mix in Boost and AB, or even Cruise in some scenarios.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that ED isn't sophisticated in its own way, but SC's flight model isn't just about pointing your ship.

Theres a reason the sim fans like to gush about SC after they really get into flying; there are a lot of settings to play with and you can with practice and a pair of joysticks have an insane amount of control over your craft.

 

[Voivod]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that ED isn't sophisticated in its own way, but SC's flight model isn't just about pointing your ship.

So would you be able to link an SC video that shows difficult/complex maneuvers that require a lot of skill with the SC flight model?
Last time someone asked, they linked a dogfight of two of the top AC dogfighters and all they did was point and strafe.
(Which by my experience playing AC was the most efficient way of flying in SC, considering how fast you can turn and how keeping your crosshair on the enemy is your No1 priority)

Something equivelant to the Isinona ED videos who noone disputes show increadible skill with the ED flight model.


Also you do realize most people here who critisize the SC FM have actually used it and are giving first-hand critisism right?

 

[Zetta]

Space break, match speed etc all indicators of a truly skill based game.

 

[Stormprooter]

Been away for a while and I'm too lazy to trawl through stuff on the RSI site - so a couple of questions - I last played this just after 2.1 was released.

1. Has TrackIR been restored?
2. Anything new to do or worth mentioning?
3. Is it worth downloading the client to try the latest version?

Thanks

 

[govny]

while Elite has roll-to-yaw to deal with,

you forgot the different turn rating depending on the speed.
It makes a lot of difference.