Still superweapon bug? Or just AI?
Discuss AI here (After Engineer mods removal)
- Thread starter Cmdr Eagleboy
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Still superweapon bug? Or just AI?
Ian Phillips
Volunteer Moderator
Twice lost my cobra Mk iv because it couldn't outrun the attackers. Both times hit by heat weapons, and massively mass locked and then not having enough time to high wake.
Then lost my Vulture to being attacked by 4 or 5 ships in one go. Shield gone, thrusters gone. Can do nothing at that point. Probably my fault for not leaving sooner, but still.
That was last night. Each session costs me about 3 rebuys before I quit. And I'm using cheap ships but still losing millions in rebuy and lost cargo each session. I can see a trend
Really - I've had more deaths since the 2.1 release than I've had since dec 2014. And these deaths have been inescapable for me. This is not fun or productive.
Then lost my Vulture to being attacked by 4 or 5 ships in one go. Shield gone, thrusters gone. Can do nothing at that point. Probably my fault for not leaving sooner, but still.
That was last night. Each session costs me about 3 rebuys before I quit. And I'm using cheap ships but still losing millions in rebuy and lost cargo each session. I can see a trend
Really - I've had more deaths since the 2.1 release than I've had since dec 2014. And these deaths have been inescapable for me. This is not fun or productive.
Same for me, played couple of hours during 3 days, lost 3 corvettes 65mil. made 15mil, so since 2.1 I lost 50mil
And the mutated weapons are still in game
Strongly disagree. And the game is NOT fun with a weak AI. Also AI does not cheat ( other then magical weapons Bug ) their tighter turn rate is bc they use thrusters better ( then me ). Thats in my FDL if I'm in my Python its that and the fact that they (generally) are more manouverable. I put 2 class 3 beam turrets on top. now I tend to melt smaller ships pretty quickly b4 everything really manouverable was unkillable for me and my Python.
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Ian Phillips
Volunteer Moderator
There is a fix coming probably today, but I'm not completely sure of that. It should remove the rest of the engineer weapons and fix the bugs that made the NPCs have UBER OMG DEATH WEAPONS.
Thats what I'm waiting for. Before that, there is no point in playing for me.
And to answer someone elses point, I don't think that the AI is too difficult. I think I need to learn how to cope, it's simply that I cannot afford to learn, losing ships at the rate I am currently.
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Not in my experience. I trade with a Python am deadly in rank and get interdicted once in 5 jumps. As I win the interdiction game 3/5 I have to face an opponent roughly every 30 minutes. Other then once ( OP weapons bug - its not the only time I encountered it - but it was the only time I didn't survive it - my other deaths since 2.1 are bc of ego and being a Brannigan ) I was always able to run away when I wanted to.
Ideally:
- Higher lvl AI should be super hard but a tad rarer
- Most (90%+) interdictions should be either security or Pirates NOT loons who attack everyone and his dog no matter if they have sth valuable to steal
- High sec Systems should not only have a quick police reaction time but also a very low chance of Pirate interdictions ( the Police however might interdict you very often )
- Players should be able to hire NPC wingmen ( so an explorer copming back to the bubble could hire a wing of eagles to protect him when he delivers his Data to a port of his choice - ditto for Traders )
- AI should try and get away ( and I mean really away ) when they get their butts kicked
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Well, after today's antics, i wish i could change my vote to: AI is too hard.
In fact, i'm beginning to think its insane.
Yes, i know some people are saying how they can take down anacondas in sidewinders with one hand tied behind their backs, and kudos to you. I've not been too bothered by the AI until now (minus the bugs about super rapid fire weapons, which were annoying), but then, i jumped in my CM4 to do some piracy. Lovely ship, but it has some weaknesses... erm... quite a few. But anyway. Headed out to go pew-pew myself some traders. Unfortunately, just as i was locking onto a trader, i got interdicted.
No worries eh? Oh... Vulture +1 other... not sure, didn't even get a look at him.
No way was i taking a vulture on in a CM4, decided to run.
But, sorry, low wake not possible. Mass locked and got a pounding. Damn... i need to high wake! Nope, not enough time, i was dead before my poor synapses could react. Even if i had hit high wake straight away, i don't think i would have made it.
After my last deaths in CZ, i had sworn off combat... but this wasn't me seeking out a challenging fight... the fight found me, and i lost it.
I'm now in the position where the only way I dare exit the station without worry is to get in my A grade Vulture, and even that is risky. Anything else, its a death sentence. I can understand git gud if i'm seeking out dedicated combat. But from what i see so far, i can't even go out in anything that isn't a combat ship.
I have offered advice to those flying trade ships, i've read the guides people have posted post 2.1... I thought it wasn't people adapting... but now, i understand i was wrong. As far as I can tell (and manbe its my own lack of skill), the new AI are brutal, and this is coming from an expereinced player. I shudder to think how new players will fare.
I thought the new AI, until the new patch, would limit my combat activities. Now, after being destroyed near a station (earlier today) and after interdiction, i now realize i can't actually do anything, unless i'm in a full combat fitted ship.
Git gud? Sorry, i'm as good as i can be. I've played long enough. I'm at my personal skill cap. I might get marginally better, but that's it. Fine, i'll stay away from combat... but as things stand, i need to stay away from everything. I can't travel in a non-combat ship, and if the AI remains at its current level, it means i'm locked out of flying anything not combat related.
I can only hope at this point, that SJA either tones things down (which will annoy those looking for harder AI) or makes adaptive AI which matches itself to the skill level of the pilot.... or at least stops sending killing machines against people flying weaker ships, no matter their combat rank.
As of this point, the game simply isn't any fun any more.
To anyone I said they needed to adapt to the new AI, my apologies. I had underestimated it.
You are a very brave player to admit that you underestimated the new AI, I wish more Get Gudders would share this experience. That comment was very refreshing.
Reading between the lines of the responses it seems to me that the issue mainly centres around Power Play. I'm not pledged to a Power Play faction which is probably why my current game experience is so different to Agony_Aunt's. The aggression of the NPC's attached to the opposing factions is probably something that needs to be toned down. Quite how that is to be achieved I'll leave to the Dev's to decide.
They said "We'll remove engineers mod from the NPC, they didn't do that.... try an expansion mission, where you have to kill someone after you scanned a comm-link on a station... it was only a "dangerous mission" ... found anaconda elite Pyhton and a lot of other ships (respawning endless) they shoot with weapon that destroy mi FSD and thruster , with my shield still on.... i combat logged... frustrating...i already lost 10 milions, post 2.1 ... please remove all NPC engineer modified weapons like you said in a post sticked in this page!!
Not in my experience. I can reagularly beat Dangerous + ( have even killed a few Elites including PP AI ) opponents. I seldom use FA off, tend to fiddle ( and not always in a good way ) with power allocation and have just replaced my Joystick ( and now have the directional thrusters by my left index finger instead of my right thumb which means I use them less often and less well ). Yes I get my ass handed to me about 50% of the time by Dangerous+ AI in comparable ships but I am hardly inhuman.
Aside from those obnoxios bugged weapons I can really not complain.
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Either that or members of your faction should jump into the fray ( at least from time to time ).
The reason the Too Hard poll is not going up as fast as previously is because most of those that voted Too Hard in the last poll, are no longer playing.
While I agree with your post in general only dangerous seems a bit off to me. Dangerous is the third highest difficulty of nine - thats after all is said and done pretty high. Also the way those missions are structured I guess they are aimed ad wings. Which why I generally approve of should:
- be written in the missions somewhere
- give you the chance for support by NPCs if you choose so ( lowering the payout )
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No they now spend all their time on the forum....
The game is not fun with the strong NPCs. In fact, it's not even playable. Thus, I strongly disagree with you. If you're having no problems, that's great. FOR YOU. People who ARE having problems are having their game utterly ruined.
At the lower end, the AI is still far too difficult. I think they need to be comparatively easy at the lower levels, moving up to the level you want at higher levels.
All I see are people describing their pythons, anacondas and fer de lances. There are still LOTS of players out there who can't afford those kinds of ships and are flying adders and T6s, and they're the ones being wiped out en masse.
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... or left the bubble until things get sorted out. That's at least what I did
Alas, I'm not IN the bubble, and I'm getting run over by ships wherever I go.
Duane Dibbley
Banned
I'm so embarrassed..I've had to go back to gimbals! The biggest problem pre mod removals was damage the small ships in wings were able to inflict, that really was a game changer for me, anything agile up to the Cobra! Now they are still difficult to hit with fixed but I can last a bit longer..& until I get my Logitech 3D Pro replaced (currently using old Hotas X), I'm sticking with muppet mode!
Also PP is a massive pita now..every time I go to a HazRES for a few credits, Aislings Angels, Kumo Crew, Alliance Enforcers..and Hudsons <whoops> (or whatever they're called) etc attack me before I even get a look at a ship with a bounty..also I usually become wanted when I fire on them or collect a massive 400cr bounty (woohoo!)..if it was just one agent, yeah fine, but it is always at least two, high ranked ships..even when I dispatch them, I usually have hull damage, much less chaff & a used up SCB..which limits my ability to continue in the RES somewhat!
For example, yesterday I was surprise attacked by an Elite Anaconda and Deadly Vulture..I killed the Vulture, became wanted..then two Cobras from security joined in (in a HazRES!!)..I had to run - fortunately my Vulture now does 455 m/s - credits raised from my BH expedition err zero..minus costs! This is not a one-off either!
The actual AI are easier now - a USS with threat level 4 had 3 Vultures that I managed to kill after a really brutal fight..I like to fight wings, these fights are the most satisfying for me to test myself, but the AI are probably too easy if it is possible! Anything more than two is pushing it a bit; having said that I've killed wings of three high ranked cmdrs on quite a few occasions.
On balance, 'slightly too easy' with gimbals..'too hard' with fixed! An average of that means a vote of 'just right'!
Also PP is a massive pita now..every time I go to a HazRES for a few credits, Aislings Angels, Kumo Crew, Alliance Enforcers..and Hudsons <whoops> (or whatever they're called) etc attack me before I even get a look at a ship with a bounty..also I usually become wanted when I fire on them or collect a massive 400cr bounty (woohoo!)..if it was just one agent, yeah fine, but it is always at least two, high ranked ships..even when I dispatch them, I usually have hull damage, much less chaff & a used up SCB..which limits my ability to continue in the RES somewhat!
For example, yesterday I was surprise attacked by an Elite Anaconda and Deadly Vulture..I killed the Vulture, became wanted..then two Cobras from security joined in (in a HazRES!!)..I had to run - fortunately my Vulture now does 455 m/s - credits raised from my BH expedition err zero..minus costs! This is not a one-off either!
The actual AI are easier now - a USS with threat level 4 had 3 Vultures that I managed to kill after a really brutal fight..I like to fight wings, these fights are the most satisfying for me to test myself, but the AI are probably too easy if it is possible! Anything more than two is pushing it a bit; having said that I've killed wings of three high ranked cmdrs on quite a few occasions.
On balance, 'slightly too easy' with gimbals..'too hard' with fixed! An average of that means a vote of 'just right'!
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That's just not true.
Actually as your opponents scale with you flying a smaller ship often means easier opponents.
That is indeed not good. If you are in unsettled systems ( especially at some distance from the next settled one ) interdictions should be super ultra rare.
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Well you sure seem to be a way better Pilot then me. I'd never dream of taking on a wing of Vultures....
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Nor I! I wouldn't even try taking on ONE.
My responses in blue. I hope people can still read it, I know there are a couple of themes.
They are on the forums because they have retired their Hauliers, Pythons etc and put them into storage they then have probably purchased a Cobra III and are still playing, while they wait to see what FD are going to do, they probably don't vote anymore because they don't think that FD are listening to them, those that are voting Too Easy are doing so because they feel that there may be a chance that FD will dumb down the AI because of all the complaints. FD do seem to be catering to the adrenaline junkies, If FD don't fix this then they will leave the game completely, but like everybody else they are waiting to see what happens, so they still have a right as ED owners to express their opinions on these Forums, don't they?
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